IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #2

[neesaki]

This is an example of the space between the railing and the open window. The dailymail posted many photos probably found on thread #1 and I will be taking photos myself (and using a tape measure) - would you put your 18month old on this railing ?

JMO

Oh my gawd! I can NOT believe anyone would sit a child up there, it’s scary just seeing the photo. SMH

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Delete

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

I have my own opinion on this...the family really should be hoping for a plea deal
JMO

Wouldn't a plea deal negate their chances of winning the civil lawsuit? Winkleman is still representing the family and looking for a financial settlement from RCCL. If Grandpa pleads to a lesser degree of culpability, Royal Caribbean can't be held responsible. RCCL isn't responsible for SA's reckless behavior, but I think the family is determined to blame the cruise line and get Grandpa off the hook.

 

[oviedo]

Wouldn't a plea deal negate their chances of winning the civil lawsuit? Winkleman is still representing the family and looking for a financial settlement from RCCL. If Grandpa pleads to a lesser degree of culpability, Royal Caribbean can't be held responsible. RCCL isn't responsible for SA's reckless behavior, but I think the family is determined to blame the cruise line and get Grandpa off the hook.

Yes it would but I do think he may agree to save face and the family can still proceed and hope for a settlement IMO
It will be interesting to see this play out
JMO

 

[MsMarple]

Wouldn't a plea deal negate their chances of winning the civil lawsuit? Winkleman is still representing the family and looking for a financial settlement from RCCL. If Grandpa pleads to a lesser degree of culpability, Royal Caribbean can't be held responsible. RCCL isn't responsible for SA's reckless behavior, but I think the family is determined to blame the cruise line and get Grandpa off the hook.

Not necessarily. For one thing, SA could plead guilty to the current charge in exchange for a lesser sentence, including probation.

But even if he pleaded to a lesser charge or went to court and was found not guilty it might not have a heavy impact on the civil case, which requires less stringent evidence requirements and would be focused on RCCL's part in the death. And the civil case could end up getting settled also in order to avoid bad pr and additional legal fees. Overall it might affect the bottom line $$ but IMO SA will be held at least partially responsible if not fully responsible because of his own actions. MOO.

Think apples and oranges. For example, OJ was found not guilty in his criminal trial but was held responsible in the civil suit. SA's criminal case seeks to prove his negligence while the civil case seeks to prove RCCL's negligence.

All MOO.

 

[LietKynes]

I guess we will see what happens.
Who knows what the truth is ?
In this forum and in other cases in msm -- I've been "gobsmacked" to see how far people will go for money , or because they're just evil.

There is no proof of anything other that what the video shows.
So I'm keeping an open mind.
Imo.

As a parent I could not forgive a grandparent for a foolish act that resulted in my child's death.
And the parents might want to see that video and the minutes/hours leading up to the death.

Because if they were on another part of the ship -- they'd want to know what SA was doing and if he was 'tipsy'; despite either himself or Winkleman saying he was a 'teetotaler'.
The Wiegand's should have questions for him from the beginning of the incident and they'd want to know what happened --and he'd better answer them truthfully.
I have no idea what SA has told them.

My opinion is that a lawsuit based on missing or information known to be false is dishonest.
If the parents know the truth, they shouldn't sue a company/cruise line for a mistake their relative made.
And if there needs to be justice for Chloe-- I want that and assume others would as well.

 

[Medstudies]

View attachment 216765

Grandad 'had to be sedated' after dropping toddler 150ft to her death on cruise ship

@ 1:44 No ledge under the windows but that’s what I’ll be concentrating on with my photos in 3 weeks time.

Right? This was same video I posted in thread 1 Pg 3. The person who shot it has commented that they had had no idea it would be of such interest.

And of note: there were a few windows open, and yet no one on the ship seemed alarmed by this fact...

 

[LietKynes]

If SA is completely innocent of anything other than total imbecilic stupidity and is beating himself up internally over this-- he should plead guilty to negligent homicide, take his 'lumps' (several months' jail sentence, a stiff fine, or whatever); and apologize profusely to her parents.
He still has a life.
Chloe was robbed of hers.

And Winkleman should (imo) be told to hit the road.
Maybe he already is.
This is a case I can't see him winning.

 

[Medstudies]

Dbm -

 

[LietKynes]

At the beginning of this case in the now-deleted thread.... , SA was described as 'elderly' , 'old', and possibly 'onset dementia' (yes that was brought up )and even 'frail'.
Oh my goodness.
I believe he's what, 50 ? 51 ?

My parents are 80 and 81, and still very alert and active.
They keep busy and are enjoying life.

Lately not much has been said about SA's age.
But even at 50, he still has maybe 30 years left.

But not Chloe.
Just so senseless and sad.

 

[book-thinker]

I guess we will see what happens.
Who knows what the truth is ?
In this forum and in other cases in msm -- I've been "gobsmacked" to see how far people will go for money , or because they're just evil.

There is no proof of anything other that what the video shows.
So I'm keeping an open mind.
Imo.

As a parent I could not forgive a grandparent for a foolish act that resulted in my child's death.
And the parents might want to see that video and the minutes/hours leading up to the death.

Because if they were on another part of the ship -- they'd want to know what SA was doing and if he was 'tipsy'; despite either himself or Winkleman saying he was a 'teetotaler'.
The Wiegand's should have questions for him from the beginning of the incident and they'd want to know what happened --and he'd better answer them truthfully.
I have no idea what SA has told them.

My opinion is that a lawsuit based on missing or information known to be false is dishonest.
If the parents know the truth, they shouldn't sue a company/cruise line for a mistake their relative made.

And if there needs to be justice for Chloe-- I want that and assume others would as well.

I trying to understand something with the timeline. Did the grandfather give a formal statement to the local police?
I read somewhere he went back to the united states before giving a formal statement.

 

[LietKynes]

I trying to understand something with the timeline. Did the grandfather give a formal statement to the local police?
I read somewhere he went back to the united states before giving a formal statement.

Afaik; he didn't give a statement and returned to the US.

 

[katydid23]

This is an example of the space between the railing and the open window. The dailymail posted many photos probably found on thread #1 and I will be taking photos myself (and using a tape measure) - would you put your 18month old on this railing ?

JMO

NEVER in a million years would I put a baby, or any child, up on that railing.

And I cannot believe that he wouldn't know that the window was open.

 

[Stinalyn]

Hello,
I'm a new member but I've been following this thread. Nice to meet you all!
I came across this story earlier:
(I apologize if someone already shared it)
Apparently one of the reporters from CBS was allowed to watch part of the video of the last moments before Chloe went overboard.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...BMAF6BAgIEAc&usg=AOvVaw1n90HxCDuqV1AH0fDWMwRc

 

[LietKynes]

Welcome to Websleuths, @Stinalyn !!!

That's interesting.
Wonder if both the parent's and SA's lawyers have watched part or all of the video ?

 

[MsBetsy]

NEVER in a million years would I put a baby, or any child, up on that railing.

And I cannot believe that he wouldn't know that the window was open.

That's exactly why he is being charged with negligent homicide.

His actions were well outside the normal care that a reasonable person would take to ensure the safety of a child.

Imo

 

[Stinalyn]

Welcome to Websleuths, @Stinalyn !!!

That's interesting.
Wonder if both the parent's and SA's lawyers have watched part or all of the video ?

Hi @LietKynes ... & thank you!
I am not sure who has seen the video but I'd like to know that as well.
I do know that MW is trying to claim that this video "proves" that SA didn't know the window was open and didn't act negligently.
I thought it was interesting that the reporter says that the first part of the video shows Chloe walking across a big expanse of floor by herself... and then the grandfather followed. Idk, if it was my 18- month old, I think I would keep them closer to me in that situation, it was only the first day in the ship, unfamiliar environment, etc.
However it reminded me of another pic I had seen of SA and Chloe which shows him focusing a lot of attention on a dog and Chloe just kind of standing behind him alone. He's not even looking at her.
To be fair, a photo doesn't tell the whole story and I have no idea what was really going on or if she was also being watched by someone else at the time. This is just me speculating but something about this pic always rubbed me the wrong way. MOO

 

[MsMarple]

NEVER in a million years would I put a baby, or any child, up on that railing.

And I cannot believe that he wouldn't know that the window was open.

I know! Like I said earlier, the picture alone gives my stomach a little lurch. Open or closed.

It makes me want to go back in time and grab Chloe before SA lifted her up.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

Hello,
I'm a new member but I've been following this thread. Nice to meet you all!
I came across this story earlier:
(I apologize if someone already shared it)
Apparently one of the reporters from CBS was allowed to watch part of the video of the last moments before Chloe went overboard.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...BMAF6BAgIEAc&usg=AOvVaw1n90HxCDuqV1AH0fDWMwRc

The story has changed. What about earlier reports that SA picked Chloe up because she "asked to be picked up to BANG ON THE GLASS"? Parents of toddler who fell from cruise ship share ‘unfathomable’ grief
"They said her grandfather often did the same thing with her when they attended hockey games, letting her bang on the glass." (GMAFB, please...)
Lawyer Explains Toddler's Fall From Cruise Ship Window
"Chloe wanted to bang on the glass like she always did at her older brother's hockey games. Her grandfather thought there was glass just like everywhere else, but there was not, and she was gone in an instant."

 

[Montrealaise]

When my daughter at 2 yrs threw a full-blown tantrum there were times I had to put her down as I could’ve dropped her.
If Chloé got frightened at that height I’m saying he would not have been able to hold her.

The more I think about this the angrier I get...I hope the parents are starting to see reality.

I suspect that is what happened - he was holding her at or out the window, she panicked and started struggling, and he couldn't hold on to her. The video would show that.