IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #2

[LietKynes]

And how many of those windows were actually open? SA had to choose the one that was open?

Interesting that you brought that up. ^^^

In the photos taken from inside the ship immediately afte rshe fell, and esp. the one or two taken from outside the ship--- only ONE window was open.
Wow.

Just that it looks like he went to the one open window.

SA could have set her in front of any of the closed ones and she still could have had a good view of the harbor.
It's infuriating to think of her fear as she fell.
But I'm hoping it was very quick and a painless death for the little one.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

That fact right there should give everyone involved in this case reason to really REALLY stop and consider things.

It truly saddens me that this family seems to have forgotten about little Chloe I don't know if that is indeed the case, but the focus on "Saving Grandpa" has usurped any reminders of this lovely little girl. Chloe's life was short - too short, but Chloe was here on earth if only for a brief period of time. Chloe was a happy, energetic child who brought joy to her parents and extended family. Most parents who lose a child, even if not under such horrific circumstances, experience significant difficulty moving forward, and some don't ever really recover from the loss of a child.

As I watch the interviews with SA making lame excuses for what happened to Chloe, I can't help wondering what her parents are thinking. Do they not blame him at all? Do they not harbor feelings of anger at his carelessness with their precious child? If not, there is definitely something wrong here

 

[sl222]

I guess there isn't some court order for the GF not to discuss this in the media?

 

[MaryG12]

DH and I stayed at a hotel many years ago and I took a photo of him outside the room in the hallway; next to a railing and metal curving fence that was just below shoulder height for me.
In the photo, a lady stands at the opposite side of the hotel also next to the railing-- except she's holding a baby.
Younger than Chloe --about 6-7 months ?
Anyway, she's holding (her?) child in her arms and leaning over to look at the plaza and fountain below.

The fountain and deco sculptures were a beautiful sight.

But after looking through our vacay photos after we were home-- I noticed that lady and just cringed.
Baby was held quite tightly, but he/she was in front of the lady held in one arm, and she was leaning forward for a better view.
Her other arm was holding onto the railing.
Just dangerous to see.

We were about 8 stories up and the hotel was arranged in a circle with the balconies open in the middle to the fountains and sculptures on the floor .

And as far as I remember-- there were no signs anywhere saying, "do not sit or stand on the railing-- and do not dangle your baby over the railing ".

One would surmise the hotel assumed that people weren't that stupid !!

Is this a relatively new trend? Some people propping babies on ledges near dangerous areas like cruise ships, Grand Canyon, zoos?

See where I am going with this?

Because quite honestly I cannot see any difference between SA's action and those of the following:

Parents sue Pittsburgh Zoo in boy's mauling death

Where has common sense gone?

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Is SA and grandma still together.
I ask as reports said he attended court on his own.

I mentioned earlier that it surprised me that SA appeared to be by himself in court. I wondered, also, if anyone from the family had accompanied him to PR. I realize that there are airline and hotel costs involved with the trips to San Juan, but I think there is a crowd funding source for such expenses.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

I mentioned earlier that it surprised me that SA appeared to be by himself in court. I wondered, also, if anyone from the family had accompanied him to PR. I realize that there are airline and hotel costs involved with the trips to San Juan, but I think there is a crowd funding source for such expenses.

There's also the money the family raised on their Fund...ly.

 

[MaryG12]

It truly saddens me that this family seems to have forgotten about little Chloe I don't know if that is indeed the case, but the focus on "Saving Grandpa" has usurped any reminders of this lovely little girl. Chloe's life was short - too short, but Chloe was here on earth if only for a brief period of time. Chloe was a happy, energetic child who brought joy to her parents and extended family. Most parents who lose a child, even if not under such horrific circumstances, experience significant difficulty moving forward, and some don't ever really recover from the loss of a child.

As I watch the interviews with SA making lame excuses for what happened to Chloe, I can't help wondering what her parents are thinking. Do they not blame him at all? Do they not harbor feelings of anger at his carelessness with their precious child? If not, there is definitely something wrong here

It is infuriating, however I suspect the family does not want to lose a second family member, ie, jail for SA.

 

[sl222]

"I don't know what else to say."
"I don't know what else to tell you."
- SA in his interview.

 

[they'll get you]

I mentioned earlier that it surprised me that SA appeared to be by himself in court. I wondered, also, if anyone from the family had accompanied him to PR. I realize that there are airline and hotel costs involved with the trips to San Juan, but I think there is a crowd funding source for such expenses.

They all might have looked around those closed windows before lunch so SA might have thought there were no opening windows.

There was just one open window and it was Chloe that walked to it and he followed her.

Grandfather Who Held Toddler Before Cruise Ship Fall Says His Color Blindness May Have Led to Incident

He’s really going for the colour blindness defense now.
He asks for a moment to take a drink, IMO he knows the cameras are still rolling, he looks at the cameras and cries at them.

I really wonder if he’s stupid or is he just rat cunning.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

It is infuriating, however I suspect the family does not want to lose a second family member, ie, jail for SA.

If they lose SA to jail, my best guess is that they will lose the lawsuit against RCCL.

 

[they'll get you]

It is infuriating, however I suspect the family does not want to lose a second family member, ie, jail for SA.

Anyone know how long had he been with grandma?

 

[scruffydog]

Is this a relatively new trend? Some people propping babies on ledges near dangerous areas like cruise ships, Grand Canyon, zoos?

See where I am going with this?

Because quite honestly I cannot see any difference between SA's action and those of the following:

Parents sue Pittsburgh Zoo in boy's mauling death

Where has common sense gone?[/QUOTE
Just as bad as a hot car death. Sometimes I wish the punishment was an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. Throw the mom into the same pit, lock the hot car death parents in the death car in the middle of the desert. When they die, burn the vehicle.
The agony that these children have suffered makes me want to throw up.

 

[they'll get you]

There's also the money the family raised on their Fund...ly.

Grandfather Who Held Toddler Before Cruise Ship Fall Says His Color Blindness May Have Led to Incident

At the very end he says because of this he will need a lot a lot of help.
Help means = money.

IMO.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

They all might have looked around those closed windows before lunch so SA might have thought there were no opening windows.

There was just one open window and it was Chloe that walked to it and he followed her.

Grandfather Who Held Toddler Before Cruise Ship Fall Says His Color Blindness May Have Led to Incident

He’s really going for the colour blindness defense now.
He asks for a moment to take a drink, IMO he knows the cameras are still rolling, he looks at the cameras and cries at them.

I really wonder if he’s stupid or is he just rat cunning.

A little bit of both, IMHO. I'm no proctologist, but i know an a$$hole when I see one.

 

[they'll get you]

If they lose SA to jail, my best guess is that they will lose the lawsuit against RCCL.

ITA.

 

[they'll get you]

A little bit of both, IMHO. I'm no proctologist, but i know an a$$hole when I see one.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

Anyone know how long had he been with grandma?

I can't find a link now, but I read recently in one of the news reports that he has been married to Kimberley's mother for around 20 years.

 

[MsMarple]

Toddler slips from grandfather’s arms, falls to her death from 11th floor of Royal Caribbean’s Freedom of the Seas

found the early reference to dangling that was NOT scrubbed yet-
The toddler’s maternal grandfather, identified as Salvatore Anello, was reportedly playfully dangling the child from one of the ship’s port-side windows when he lost his grasp, sending the girl plummeting into an awning before she landed on the concrete dock below. “It’s a very grave scene, very regrettable and tragic,” Elmer Román, an official with the Puerto Rican Department of Public Security, told Puerto Rico’s Primera Hora newspaper. “One of the grandfathers, whom it would appear was playing with the little girl, lifted her out of the open window and lost his grip
Toddler slips from grandfather's arms, falls to her death from 11th floor of cruise ship
The toddler's maternal grandfather, identified as Salvatore Anello, was reportedly playfully dangling the child from one of the ship's port-side windows when he lost his grasp, sending the girl plummeting into an awning before she landed on the concrete dock below.

"It's a very grave scene, very regrettable and tragic," Elmer Román, an official with the Puerto Rican Department of Public Security, told Puerto Rico's Primera Hora newspaper. "One of the grandfathers, whom it would appear was playing with the little girl, lifted her out of the open window and lost his grip."

The accompanying video has him dangling her out the window - and note - it was port side that this happened. I've been wondering about that.

Thanks for digging that up. If it does turn out that SA actually dangled Chloe or held her outside of the window then I'm gobsmacked that the DA didn't charge him with felony murder (I would think any kind of fooling around like that would be considered abuse) or second degree murder instead of a misdemeanor. I understand he's possibly facing 3 years in prison but if he did more than just sitting Chloe on the railing then the man should rot in prison for a very long time! MOO.

I am certain that he is colorblind, has presbyopia, suffers from neuropathy of his hands and feet, and has Meniere’s disease that affects his balance. Probably an olfactory disorder that causes him to lose his sense of smell as he couldn't detect the ocean breeze through the open window.

Interesting that you mentioned presbyopia. I took a good look at a pic of SA wearing his glasses and it does appear that the main lens magnifies a bit with a stronger insert at the bottom. My husband has excellent far vision but in order to read at varying distances he has multiple lenses. IOW, one strength to look at a computer screen and stronger to read print.

If anything that would make it easier to differentiate between an open or closed window but I don't know how color blindness would affect his ability. Personally I don't think it's a factor and a medical expert would be able to bust that particular excuse. It reminds me of the trial of Ross Harris who claimed to have hearing and olfactory limitations which prevented him from knowing his son was strapped in a car seat for hours on a hot day. Didn't help him at all. MOO.

 

[MsMarple]

Oh, and to add... This business about "banging on the glass," well, I hate it. For one thing if I was sitting at a nearby table trying to enjoy a drink I'd be pissed that some little kid was banging away on the glass. It's a cruise ship not a hockey game after all and there are other people wanting to have a good time. But hey, SA couldn't be bothered to use seat belts so why would he care about the comfort of others? MOO.

 

[1&2&3]

Does Grandpa have children of his own?

In my life experience, the one thing that I’ve noticed is adults who weren’t parents, act a bit odd around children. They just seem to be unable to connect comfortably with them. They will do something foolish like Grandpa did. I bet he never gave it a thought that what he was doing was dangerous!

For that matter, fathers who didn’t spend much time raising their children, from the 1980’s backwards, many were at this same loss when it came to the grandchildren.

It takes common sense in raising children, and one must always. be thinking ahead as to what is safe vs dangerous. And, most importantly, the adult must be able to say “NO” to any request that might pose a risk.