IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #4

[10ofRods]

So, the dangerous act of placing her on the railing was not enough. Unbelievable. If the video didn't exist, I could never have imagined what actually happened. They were 11 floors up.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

Given that the incident took place near a bar, I wonder if that is a designated smoking area? I've said previously that SA might have wanted to smoke, and that's why he offered to watch Chloe while the rest of the family (allegedly) went to the buffet. Smoking is not permitted in dining areas on all cruise ships.

IIRC didn't KW go on an errand to the ship's office and leave Chloe with SA for approximately 10 minutes?

 

[IceIce9]

I think maybe the family thought RCCL would offer a settlement before the case ever went to trial. They could have counted on garnering public sympathy with all their public appearances, and maybe RCCL would suffer business losses, or even a boycott.

But many people already were on the side of RCCL, and with the release of the video that clearly shows grandpa leaning out the window I would venture to say the tide has turned and most of social media is supporting RCCL.

 

[Kittybunny]

So much has happened in the last few days, it's almost overwhelming and it's certainly anger-inducing! I CANNOT BELIEVE that SA refused a plea deal when he knows the truth! He has no shame and no remorse, just continues to demonstrate the arrogance and disdain for laws that he displays with his multiple infractions for the same violation over and over! And that the family continues to spin this in every which way possible!

BUT there is one person who really really makes me want to vomit, and that is Winkleman. He is truly the epitome of every stereotype of an unethical, money-grubbing, ambulance-chasing lawyer that exists. He doesn't even spin the truth or demur or twist facts, he is a BOLD-FACED LIAR! He has seen the videos - he knows the truth! Everything that comes out of his mouth is pretty much an outright lie! I really believe that he stepped in and took advantage of a grieving family for his own greedy and publicity-seeking ends, and that in their confusion, grief, and the mother falling back into a comfort zone of dealing with problems through the court, they have been brainwashed to a large extent. A puppet on Puerto Rican TV reveals the truth, but the real puppetmaster here pulling the strings in my opinion is WINKLEMAN!

Not to say that at some point the family, especially SA, is responsible for their own actions, and I truly hope they come to their senses sooner rather than later, but I can't imagine their confusion and grief. Please, in the name of Chloe, drop this charade and grieve privately and with dignity.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

IIRC didn't KW go on an errand to the ship's office and leave Chloe with SA for approximately 10 minutes?

Another changing tale in the case. It was originally reported that the rest of the family had gone to the buffet. The notion that KW was taking care of an issue on the ship just came out a day or so ago. SA never should have been put in charge of supervising a toddler

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

Another changing tale in the case. It was originally reported that the rest of the family had gone to the buffet. The notion that KW was taking care of an issue on the ship just came out a day or so ago. SA never should have been put in charge of supervising a toddler

BBM Right, and I was kind of shocked at how far ahead of him Chloe was running in that video. One has to be extremely vigilant with kids that age. But, I guess he didn't really care about her safety after all. Not one bit.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

I think maybe the family thought RCCL would offer a settlement before the case ever went to trial. They could have counted on garnering public sympathy with all their public appearances, and maybe RCCL would suffer business losses, or even a boycott.

But many people already were on the side of RCCL, and with the release of the video that clearly shows grandpa leaning out the window I would venture to say the tide has turned and most of social media is supporting RCCL.

RCCL knew that the facts were on their side. They didn't ever try to prove their case in the media because they knew what the video showed. No amount of signage would have prevented this terrible tragedy. SA walked up to that open window, stuck his head and upper body out the window, looked down, then hoisted Chloe up to the open window and put her outside, too. The family and their ship-chasing lawyer need to cease and desist with their tirade against RCCL.

 

[IceIce9]

IIRC didn't KW go on an errand to the ship's office and leave Chloe with SA for approximately 10 minutes?

What was the issue? Probably her credit card was declined MOO

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

So much has happened in the last few days, it's almost overwhelming and it's certainly anger-inducing! I CANNOT BELIEVE that SA refused a plea deal when he knows the truth! He has no shame and no remorse, just continues to demonstrate the arrogance and disdain for laws that he displays with his multiple infractions for the same violation over and over! And that the family continues to spin this in every which way possible!

BUT there is one person who really really makes me want to vomit, and that is Winkleman. He is truly the epitome of every stereotype of an unethical, money-grubbing, ambulance-chasing lawyer that exists. He doesn't even spin the truth or demur or twist facts, he is a BOLD-FACED LIAR! He has seen the videos - he knows the truth! Everything that comes out of his mouth is pretty much an outright lie! I really believe that he stepped in and took advantage of a grieving family for his own greedy and publicity-seeking ends, and that in their confusion, grief, and the mother falling back into a comfort zone of dealing with problems through the court, they have been brainwashed to a large extent. A puppet on Puerto Rican TV reveals the truth, but the real puppetmaster here pulling the strings in my opinion is WINKLEMAN!

Not to say that at some point the family, especially SA, is responsible for their own actions, and I truly hope they come to their senses sooner rather than later, but I can't imagine their confusion and grief. Please, in the name of Chloe, drop this charade and grieve privately and with dignity.

Thank you for this awesome post! One of the best I've seen in this case discussion. Post of the day

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

What was the issue? Probably her credit card was declined MOO

Can't find it right now, but I made a couple of suggestions in a post yesterday. ETA: #233. KW's errand could have been with regard to special accommodations for Chloe, i.e. crib, diaper disposal, etc. I've never cruised with a baby/toddler but know that there are arrangements that need to be made for the little ones. The original story was that the rest of the family went to the buffet, so they were in a different area but on the same deck as the children's water play area and buffet.

If it's now the case that KW went to a passenger service office, business offices are not typically on outdoor open decks. If KW had gone to an onboard office, she was likely on a lower deck of the ship. Wasn't it reported that she arrived at the scene of the incident very quickly? If KW wasn't on the same deck as Chloe and Grandpa, how did she get there so quickly? There are so many conflicting details in this case, and it's difficult to separate fact from fancy - or just outright lies that have been spewed by MW.

 

[sl222]

IIRC didn't KW go on an errand to the ship's office and leave Chloe with SA for approximately 10 minutes?

In their court filing it sounds like 10 minutes (3:50 to 4:00) but so far the timeframe is not clear, because the time Chloe fell was reported to be 4:30.

 

[oviedo]

Chloe Wiegand's family condemns the release of a video that shows moments toddler fell to death from cruise ship - CNN
Family condemns the release of a video that shows moments toddler fell to death from cruise ship
By Madeline Holcombe and Jamiel Lynch, CNN

Updated 2:32 AM ET, Thu December 19, 2019

(CNN)Video appears to show the moment Chloe Wiegand fell from her grandfather's arms to her death aboard a Royal Caribbean cruise ship in July.

Chloe, 18 months old, was playing on a Royal Caribbean ship docked in Puerto Rico with her grandfather, Salvatore "Sam" Anello, when she fell from an open glass window to her death.
The video appears to show Anello lean through an opening before picking up the toddler and holding her up to the opening.
It is unclear from the video how deep the opening is.
Shortly after Chloe is gone from his arms.
snipped
According to the lawsuit the family filed earlier this month against the cruise line, Anello lifted Chloe up onto the railing and held her as she leaned forward to bang on the glass. There was no glass pane and she slipped from Anello's arms, falling 150 feet below to the pier, resulting in her death, the suit says.
Anello was not aware that some of the glass panes could be opened, the suit said. The suit claims that there was no indication that the wall of glass panes was not a fixed wall and that the wooden rail was located approximately 18 inches from the glass pane.
-----------------
This is a good article - showing both that he leaned out the window before picking her up and the lawsuit claiming the "wall of glass" was not a fixed wall.. JMO

 

[borndem]

I noticed how he crouched down against that post as though he was tired of just ‘sick of running after her’. I agree with you, I got that feeling of he was slow to react when she ran off again.

I figured he asked her if she wanted to go to the windows and bang on them like at a hockey game, and that's why she took off running -- he saw where she went, so he didn't need to hurry (I have 3 grandchildren, and when I can walk instead of hurry, I do!)
It's so hard for me to distinguish much of anything in that video, IMO. It would help a lot if there were a clearer version and one from a different angle, too. I'm assuming there is.

 

[lonetraveler]

There were witnesses that day. Wonder what they said to PR authorities ?

Something is so wrong.
It'd be nice if some of those passengers who were actually there that day would come forward.

It was very crowded in that area, there should be many, many witnesses.

 

[Barnabas]

Letting her run ahead was unsafe enough, let alone stick her out the window. What if someone turned around and stepped on her or knocked her down, spilled a drink on her or burned her with a cigarette if that's a smoking area. There were a lot of idiot moves IMO.

 

[MimosaMornings]

Some of those cabins on cruise ships are SMALL! They must have upgraded to a more expensive room to fit a crib or pack-n-play in their room.

 

[MsMarple]

The host of La Comay is seriously bashing David Begnaud on their recent show... saying that David lied about and downplayed the contents of the video, assuming the public would never see it.

I agree that David’s description of the video contents was incredibly minimizing and skewed to garner sympathy for SA, which is probably why David was so defensive about his previous reporting in his twitter post yesterday. Now we, the public, can see for ourselves what it actually shows. MOO

Begnaud now seems to have slightly altered his description:
David Begnaud on Twitter
In it he claims he/reporters have been consistent in the description but now he adds "... he reached down and picked up Chloe, held her above the railing and then past the railing and she fell."

That's not my recollection of his original description. He said "over" not "past" the railing. It's a minor change of words but the implication is hard to miss.
Video shows girl's final moments with grandfather before cruise ship death

 

[al66pine]

"Lost Everything"?
Chloe Wiegand's family condemns the release of a video that shows moments toddler fell to death from cruise ship - CNN NN Updated 2:32 AM ET, Thu December 19, 2019
--------------------------------------------------
@oviedo sbm Yes, a good article ^. Also from same article:"Kimberly Wiegand says she supports her stepfather and Chloe's grandfather. "...We do not support this misdemeanor charge or any charges whatsoever," Wiegand said. "Our family has already lost everything; ..." bbm

Mother's dramatic declaration makes me wonder about her remaining child feels.
"If Chloe was 'everything' then I must be nothing at all, not meaning anything to her." ???

I think a husband can understand/reconcile this kind of declaration, but IDK about a child. jmo

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Some of those cabins on cruise ships are SMALL! They must have upgraded to a more expensive room to fit a crib or pack-n-play in their room.

Not necessarily. Cribs and/or cots are brought into the stateroom in the evening and removed the following day. Maybe Kim was actually meeting with the cabin steward in their stateroom to make arrangements for when the crib (presumably) would be brought into the room each evening. If the 10-year-old boy was staying in the same stateroom, he probably had an upper berth. Assuming that Chloe was still in diapers, guests need to follow specific instructions for daily disposal. We don't know for sure, of course, but these are possibilities for KW having to take care of something on the ship.

 

[oviedo]

Begnaud now seems to have slightly altered his description:
David Begnaud on Twitter
In it he claims he/reporters have been consistent in the description but now he adds "... he reached down and picked up Chloe, held her above the railing and then past the railing and she fell."

That's not my recollection of his original description. He said "over" not "past" the railing. It's a minor change of words but the implication is hard to miss.
Video shows girl's final moments with grandfather before cruise ship death

He's getting quite a lot of replies - I wonder if he will try to tweet a correction?