IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #4

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  • #141
Yes! He leans out of the window, with most of his upper body, not just his head. Then picks her up and holds her OUT of the window. It looks like he dangled her. Absolutely horrifying! And so cruel! Omg, that poor baby :cry:
The initial reports from the PR LE and the ship's employees indicated that he put his head/shoulders out that window and looked around.
So if he thought there was glass --the video shows otherwise.
 
  • #142
The initial reports from the PR LE and the ship's employees indicated that he put his head/shoulders out that window and looked around.
So if he thought there was glass --the video shows otherwise.
interesting how all those early reports are turning out to be fairly accurate now IMO
 
  • #143
Since I only stated that I was heartbroken over his immediately falling down... I don't understand why what the family is doing has anything to do with what I stated.

I wasn't arguing the case or the charges... just making a statement that I immediately regretted. Stirred up a hornet's nest it seems.

No need to say how wrong I am or pile on... I just felt ill for the dumb guy.

Sorry for intruding.
I am sorry if you felt people were piling on. I think we are reacting to the horridness of the way this family has been acting. Sorry if it bounced back at you.
 
  • #144
Since I only stated that I was heartbroken over his immediately falling down... I don't understand why what the family is doing has anything to do with what I stated.

I wasn't arguing the case or the charges... just making a statement that I immediately regretted. Stirred up a hornet's nest it seems.

No need to say how wrong I am or pile on... I just felt ill for the dumb guy.

Sorry for intruding.

No one is really allowed to disagree with how horrible all of Chloe's family is in this thread. Or at least that's the clear vibe it gives off. Someone just told you they'd have to agree to disagree in response to a clear question to explain their point of view. I just watched the DM video too. I thought it was going to be clear as day from what everyone said and I believed them. Honestly the video is not as clear to me. I just can't see what everyone else can see from my angle. Now if the man DID actually deliberately dangle her out the window he's an absolute moron. But when I watched the video I was surprised at how long it took from between when he picked her up, and I agree seemed to place her awfully high up, and when he collapses. What was going on? I'd like to see the video from a better angle. But not really. I don't want to actually see Chloe fall. I lean toward grandpa being a complete idiot who should never have been allowed to babysit a child that age. But as I've said before in this discussion I do not get people's really heated anger towards them. Even if this family in their grief can't accept their own role in her death.

I feel about them about the same as I feel as the American woman complaining that no one told them how dangerous it was to tour that active volcano that erupted. No one really needs to be told don't stick a child in or out an open window any stories above the ground. And you can't predict with any real accuracy of when a volcano will erupt. You are taking a lot of risks walking on it. But I don't feel rage towards this moron like I do towards the people who have deliberately hurt children.
 
  • #145
The initial reports from the PR LE and the ship's employees indicated that he put his head/shoulders out that window and looked around.
So if he thought there was glass --the video shows otherwise.

It is obvious that SA put his head and shoulders out the window and appears to look down. If there had been glass there, his head would have hit it, for sure. Then, he decides to lift Chloe up high, over the railing, and out the window so she can see the view below. The little girl must have been terrified! I was aghast watching SA in action :eek:
 
  • #146
I can’t stop thinking “What if it was intentional?” A cop and a lawyer come up with a plan, use the grandfather after offering to get him out of debt and think that doing it in Puerto Rico will mean no charges.
Since I first read about this case when it happened I always thought SA was negligent as those windows are too high for a child.
 
  • #147
No one is really allowed to disagree with how horrible all of Chloe's family is in this thread. Or at least that's the clear vibe it gives off. Someone just told you they'd have to agree to disagree in response to a clear question to explain their point of view. I just watched the DM video too. I thought it was going to be clear as day from what everyone said and I believed them. Honestly the video is not as clear to me. I just can't see what everyone else can see from my angle. Now if the man DID actually deliberately dangle her out the window he's an absolute moron. But when I watched the video I was surprised at how long it took from between when he picked her up, and I agree seemed to place her awfully high up, and when he collapses. What was going on? I'd like to see the video from a better angle. But not really. I don't want to actually see Chloe fall. I lean toward grandpa being a complete idiot who should never have been allowed to babysit a child that age. But as I've said before in this discussion I do not get people's really heated anger towards them. Even if this family in their grief can't accept their own role in her death.

I feel about them about the same as I feel as the American woman complaining that no one told them how dangerous it was to tour that active volcano that erupted. No one really needs to be told don't stick a child in or out an open window any stories above the ground. And you can't predict with any real accuracy of when a volcano will erupt. You are taking a lot of risks walking on it. But I don't feel rage towards this moron like I do towards the people who have deliberately hurt children.
BBM I responded to the question as I did as I believe my point of view on the matter is against TOS and I don't care to get a time out or worse.
 
  • #148
But this family made aggressive, irrational attacks upon the cruise company, and pretty much called them out publicly as murderers. And tried to make out grandpa as a victim of RCCL. The greedy demands for money look horrible in the light of day, after this video was made public.

RSBM

I wonder what any former deputy prosecutor would have said, if this incident had happened to someone else's family, someone else's child, someone else's stepfather. Would they have gone all out for the innocent child? The innocent child who has been negligently lost? Would they have balked at the blame cast toward the cruiseliner, been surprised at the lawsuit attempt?

I have a feeling that a police officer is having very mixed emotions.
 
  • #149
I feel about them about the same as I feel as the American woman complaining that no one told them how dangerous it was to tour that active volcano that erupted. No one really needs to be told don't stick a child in or out an open window any stories above the ground. And you can't predict with any real accuracy of when a volcano will erupt. You are taking a lot of risks walking on it. But I don't feel rage towards this moron like I do towards the people who have deliberately hurt children.

RSBM

I don't feel rage towards him either. More exasperation at the stupidity. And grief for a little lost girl.
He still has his life, Chloe doesn't ... through no fault of her own.
He flouted the ship's safety rules, Chloe was too young to even know those rules or know what a safety rail is.
She depended on him to keep her safe.

It is a huge tragedy, but one that I personally cannot compare to a volcano having a steam (not lava) eruption. A level 2 risk (2nd lowest risk).
Chloe was placed in a Level 5 (highest) risk position - imo - hence the ship's safety rail rules.

Being in a minority position is always difficult (been there, done that quite a few times) but it doesn't make a minority opinion any less valid. :)
 
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  • #150
This thread is 5 months of discussion and debate of facts put out by MSM, and the main driving force here is what happened to this precious little girl. At first little was known and over time more and more has come out piece by piece.
 
  • #151
This thread is 5 months of discussion and debate of facts put out by MSM, and the main driving force here is what happened to this precious little girl. At first little was known and over time more and more has come out piece by piece.

For example, recently we learned from his CBS interview that first SA sat her on the guardrail. Then he stood her on the guardrail (but it's more like her feet went over the rail and outside the window clearly). Knowing things like that, I see on the video when I have it full screen especially, and with multiple viewings to really try to get it - it's easier to see what did happen. I have to see these things several times because memory of one viewing with the emotional reaction is not reliable.

We were told repeatedly he "didn't know there was glass" and now we see him stick his entire upper body out of the window.
 
  • #152
Can someone please translate what is said during the important parts of the video?
 
  • #153
No one is really allowed to disagree with how horrible all of Chloe's family is in this thread. Or at least that's the clear vibe it gives off. Someone just told you they'd have to agree to disagree in response to a clear question to explain their point of view. I just watched the DM video too. I thought it was going to be clear as day from what everyone said and I believed them. Honestly the video is not as clear to me. I just can't see what everyone else can see from my angle. Now if the man DID actually deliberately dangle her out the window he's an absolute moron. But when I watched the video I was surprised at how long it took from between when he picked her up, and I agree seemed to place her awfully high up, and when he collapses. What was going on? I'd like to see the video from a better angle. But not really. I don't want to actually see Chloe fall. I lean toward grandpa being a complete idiot who should never have been allowed to babysit a child that age. But as I've said before in this discussion I do not get people's really heated anger towards them. Even if this family in their grief can't accept their own role in her death.

I feel about them about the same as I feel as the American woman complaining that no one told them how dangerous it was to tour that active volcano that erupted. No one really needs to be told don't stick a child in or out an open window any stories above the ground. And you can't predict with any real accuracy of when a volcano will erupt. You are taking a lot of risks walking on it. But I don't feel rage towards this moron like I do towards the people who have deliberately hurt children.
I feel some heated anger towards them because of the way they are aggressively attacking others instead of questioning their stepfather and his actions.

I am angry at the way they are trying to make HIM the victim of the cruise liner. When it was said that 'if not for RCCL, little C would be going to see Frozen 2 on her 2nd birthday'--- it made me very heated.

Is it really RCCL's fault?

As you said: "No one really needs to be told don't stick a child in or out an open window any stories above the ground."

Yet this family is suing the cruise line, and demanding that everyone be told that, by putting signs on EVERY window, saying 'this window may be open.'

Sorry, but that^^^ does make me very angry. Does every future passenger on that liner have to look at hundreds of those red stickers instead of seeing a beautiful ocean view?

That does make me feel some kind of way.
 
  • #154
It looks like she was held completely out of that window for a long time - even a second would be too long but still it was a long time. That's what her parents need to know and that's really the whole case.
 
  • #155
Yes! He leans out of the window, with most of his upper body, not just his head. Then picks her up and holds her OUT of the window. It looks like he dangled her. Absolutely horrifying! And so cruel! Omg, that poor baby :cry:

And then he denied and lied and lied. It’s not his fault and now seeing the footage he needs accountability BECAUSE he has no remorse.
 
  • #156
Yes, he is a stage/theater actor besides his IT job.
That, and refusing the breathalyzer.
It didn't look good for him from the start.
I don’t know if I’ve ever witnessed such sobbing and shaking with such an absence of tears. No doubt a performance, but a poor one.IMO
 
  • #157
Welcome to Websleuths,
WannabeMonk55

and
Laria Rivera!!
 
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  • #158
And then he denied and lied and lied. It’s not his fault and now seeing the footage he needs accountability BECAUSE he has no remorse.
I had my cruise rules emailed to me when I checked in online - I haven’t read them yet but wanted to see if they added any language about passing the plane of the window with your body or your child’s body? I hope you are having a fantastic time ! Your pictures were awesome - thanks
 
  • #159
It looks like she was held completely out of that window for a long time - even a second would be too long but still it was a long time. That's what her parents need to know and that's really the whole case.
It’s as though he was trying to purposely scare her, to terrorize that innocent sweet baby. Makes me think of something a mean older brother would do to a younger sibling. Or the behavior of a school hard bully... then they laugh about it. :mad:

I believe when they said “an act of games” it must have been an accurate account. A horrifyingly cruel and reckless game.
Either that or he purposely dropped her. If he did I sure hope they get to the bottom of it and up the charges.
 
  • #160
It looks like she was held completely out of that window for a long time - even a second would be too long but still it was a long time. That's what her parents need to know and that's really the whole case.
bbm
It does seem like a long time -- I also think that little Chloe was very excited being in the window area where he was holding her, and she started jumping and his grip on her may have been slack or tired -- babies are heavier that they look, IMO -- and she slipped out of his grip -- all it would take is 1 nano-second for it to happen -- and she was gone.
One more note - the area where they were definitely does not look like a children's play area, IMO, from what I could tell. There were adult-sized lounge chairs, tables, regular chairs, etc., and no toys, etc., that I could see from the angle of the camera. JMO
I think this situation is a tuff call all the way around, sad to say. SMH.
 
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