IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #4

[BeachSky]

But why was she out of the window in the 1st place? She was out there before he fell, right?

buzzed, showing off, dangling her ....

 

[sl222]

double post

 

[Chikkamma]

My translation of the more important parts of the CCTV footage commentary shown on the Puerto Rican TV show La Comay (for it to make sense, please only use the link above to reference the specific video times):

28:46 - “At this time, I want to say that neither the police, nor the prosecution, nor the department of justice, nor the courts, none of them, none of them had anything to do with [the leaking of] these videos. These videos arrived to us. The prosecution, I imagine, has a mountain of videos… probably ones that are a lot better quality.”

29:28 - “ The skinny red arrow is the girl, and the big red arrow is the grandfather.”

29:40 - “Look... There’s the girl and there’s the grandfather. Grandfather gets down and squats. Different people pass by… When this woman passes [the large woman in the short floral dress], the girl leaves and grandpa follows behind her… Look at where the grandfather goes… Ladies and gentlemen, look closely at the window… You’ll only see one person approaching the window and look at what he does as soon as he gets there… At first I thought the grandfather was holding the girl in his arms the whole time, but no, the girl left and went to the bottom window which is completely sealed tight… And when the grandfather arrives, what does he do, he LEANS over… He’s looking DOWN ladies and gentlemen...”

31:56 - “He picks up the girl and put her on the wooden railing... She is seated in front of him…”

32:23 - “He holds her outside of the window.... four, five, six seconds pass and there she goes...”

35:30 - “Here you can see a little more clearly... Look at where the girl goes [to the window]... Look at the man, look at the first thing he does... he LEANS OVER, he leans over the wooden railing, and the first thing he does is look DOWNWARDS... how could he not know it was open?... if the window was closed it would have been impossible to look down like that...”

37:02 - “He sticks his head out the window... COMPLETELY...”

More to come...

 

[sl222]

Chloe Wiegand death: Video viewed by IndyStar shows final moments before cruise ship fall

I think that’s good idea, going to their news sites. A really good idea. So you think they’re more honest and trustworthy?

I felt like in this case I was getting it more from the source of the Puerto Rican authorities. They are the only ones who said that she was being held out the window and all of the other non-PR news was busy disputing that.

Plus originally the commenters were especially helpful because they were right there in the area and one or two seemed to have more info. One commenter said he had seen SA in the area in the days after they left the ship and commented on it.

 

[they'll get you]

Doof Doof: Slang from Our Mates Down Under
@they'll get you You need a drink? Me too, but this time, my shout.

"Doof - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doof
Doofs generally have healing workshops, speakers, art, live artists and DJs playing a range of electronic music, commonly goa, house, dub techno, Techno, acid heavy sounds and psychedelic trance. "Doof doof" is an Australian term for loud electronic music centred on a heavy bass drum kick."

The party today is very similar to the sail away party what was happening when chloe died. Loads of noise, people, a bar and pool party. The more people it seemed to me, less likely SA wouldn’t have been noticed.

 

[Lilibet]

My translation of the more important parts of the CCTV footage commentary shown on the Puerto Rican TV show La Comay (for it to make sense, please only use the link above to reference the specific video times):

28:46 - “At this time, I want to say that neither the police, nor the prosecution, nor the department of justice, nor the courts, none of them, none of them had anything to do with [the leaking of] these videos. These videos arrived to us. The prosecution, I imagine, has a mountain of videos… probably ones that are a lot better quality.”

29:28 - “ The skinny red arrow is the girl, and the big red arrow is the grandfather.”

29:40 - “Look... There’s the girl and there’s the grandfather. Grandfather gets down and squats. Different people pass by… When this woman passes [the large woman in the short floral dress], the girl leaves and grandpa follows behind her… Look at where the grandfather goes… Ladies and gentlemen, look closely at the window… You’ll only see one person approaching the window and look at what he does as soon as he gets there… At first I thought the grandfather was holding the girl in his arms the whole time, but no, the girl left and went to the bottom window which is completely sealed tight… And when the grandfather arrives, what does he do, he LEANS over… He’s looking DOWN ladies and gentlemen...”

31:56 - “He picks up the girl and put her on the wooden railing... She is seated in front of him…”

32:23 - “He holds her outside of the window.... four, five, six seconds pass and there she goes...”

35:30 - “Here you can see a little more clearly... Look at where the girl goes [to the window]... Look at the man, look at the first thing he does... he LEANS OVER, he leans over the wooden railing, and the first thing he does is look DOWNWARDS... how could he not know it was open?... if the window was closed it would have been impossible to look down like that...”

37:02 - “He sticks his head out the window... COMPLETELY...”

More to come...

Oh my! He clearly knew the window was open! No words.

 

[SugarPlumLairy]

I have a question, can the leaked video result in a mistrial?
I’ve seen it said elsewhere that it effectively taints the jury pool so he can’t have a fair trial but surely that’s the same as Winkleman spouting lie after lie, promoting their version of events?

 

[katydid23]

I have a question, can the leaked video result in a mistrial?
I’ve seen it said elsewhere that it effectively taints the jury pool so he can’t have a fair trial but surely that’s the same as Winkleman spouting lie after lie, promoting their version of events?

I don't think it will taint the jury pool because the jurors are going to see the video during the trial anyway.

But who knows?

 

[SouthAussie]

I have a question, can the leaked video result in a mistrial?
I’ve seen it said elsewhere that it effectively taints the jury pool so he can’t have a fair trial but surely that’s the same as Winkleman spouting lie after lie, promoting their version of events?

Could it lead to a bench trial?

 

[they'll get you]

My bar attendant said she was working on the Freedom out of PR, the very same cruise but wasn’t aware of the death of Chloe until later she heard about it, she knew less than me so I realised she was of no information.

 

[al66pine]

Possible Mistrial for Crim Charge, PR v. G'pa?
[ SA?QUOTE="SugarPlumLairy, post: 15650868, member: 254621"]I have a question, can the leaked video result in a mistrial?
I’ve seen it said elsewhere that it effectively taints the jury pool so he can’t have a fair trial but surely that’s the same as Winkleman spouting lie after lie, promoting their version of events?[/QUOTE]
@SugarPlumLairy Good question.

First of all, G'pa's trial has not yet begun, (jury has not been sworn in, etc). so IDT a/the/any judge can declare a mistrial for any misconduct on Prosecutors/team's actions.

If G'pa/ def atty thinks leaking the vid pre-trial (regardless of who,,, did it) unfairly prejudices potential jury pool, they can make motion. Before empaneling the jury, defense or judge could question potential jurors about what they have heard/seen/read. Can ask if they've seen the vid. Can ask if potential jurors can ignore whatever they've heard/seen/read pre-trial and render a verdict based solely on evidence at trial. This vid is virtually certain to be shown as evd at trial, if case goes to trial.

So, kinda hard for defense to argue that a vid like this would unfairly prejudice potential jurors, if it is a vid which is/would be admitted into evd and would be shown at trial.(AS @Kay

It's not like a (crazy & extreme, for illustration only) hypothetical pre-trial stmt by prosecutor saying -- defendant is a deliberate baby killer who has struck many times before (hypothetically only). A (hypo) stmt like that would not be admitted as evd in trial and could mos' def' prejudice potential jurors and might not be able to be 'cured' by questioning potential jurors. ^^^ Totally different situation, this compared to a straight vid leakage.

 

[justbreathe]

Odd that the family seems to be more upset at the fact that the video was leaked than at the possible contents of the video.

Have they watched it yet? I thought I heard they had not, which makes me so angry. How dare they defend him without viewing what happened! IMO SA is a liar and a coward, maybe worse.

 

[SugarPlumLairy]

Possible Mistrial for Crim Charge, PR v. G'pa?
[ SA?QUOTE="SugarPlumLairy, post: 15650868, member: 254621"]I have a question, can the leaked video result in a mistrial?
I’ve seen it said elsewhere that it effectively taints the jury pool so he can’t have a fair trial but surely that’s the same as Winkleman spouting lie after lie, promoting their version of events?

@SugarPlumLairy Good question.

First of all, G'pa's trial has not yet begun, (jury has not been sworn in, etc). so IDT a/the/any judge can declare a mistrial for any misconduct on Prosecutors/team's actions.

If G'pa/ def atty thinks leaking the vid pre-trial (regardless of who,,, did it) unfairly prejudices potential jury pool, they can make motion. Before empaneling the jury, defense or judge could question potential jurors about what they have heard/seen/read. Can ask if they've seen the vid. Can ask if potential jurors can ignore whatever they've heard/seen/read pre-trial and render a verdict based solely on evidence at trial. This vid is virtually certain to be shown as evd at trial, if case goes to trial.

So, kinda hard for defense to argue that a vid like this would unfairly prejudice potential jurors, if it is a vid which is/would be admitted into evd and would be shown at trial.(AS @Kay

It's not like a (crazy & extreme, for illustration only) hypothetical pre-trial stmt by prosecutor saying -- defendant is a deliberate baby killer who has struck many times before (hypothetically only). A (hypo) stmt like that would not be admitted as evd in trial and could mos' def' prejudice potential jurors and might not be able to be 'cured' by questioning potential jurors. ^^^ Totally different situation, this compared to a straight vid leakage.[/QUOTE]


Thank you that’s a great answer and sets my mind at ease as to what further shenanigans Winkleman and family may attempt.

 

[Montrealaise]

Have they watched it yet? I thought I heard they had not, which makes me so angry. How dare they defend him without viewing what happened! IMO SA is a liar and a coward, maybe worse.

Since the beginning, the family has been on a publicity tour, not just to gain sympathy for themselves (which they would get automatically, since their child died) but to paint the cruise line as a negligent corporation which did not adhere to safety standards and thus caused their daughter's death. Their ultimate goal in my opinion was to turn public opinion against RCCL and put pressure on the company to offer them a big fat settlement. The video - which anybody can now see and makes it very obvious what grandpa did - puts a huge kibosh in their plans, and I think that's why they're so upset it's been released.

 

[IceIce9]

But why was she out of the window in the 1st place? She was out there before he fell, right?

I still believe that early report, from the day it happened, “he dropped her in an act of games.”

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

Since the beginning, the family has been on a publicity tour, not just to gain sympathy for themselves (which they would get automatically, since their child died) but to paint the cruise line as a negligent corporation which did not adhere to safety standards and thus caused their daughter's death. Their ultimate goal in my opinion was to turn public opinion against RCCL and put pressure on the company to offer them a big fat settlement. The video - which anybody can now see and makes it very obvious what grandpa did - puts a huge kibosh in their plans, and I think that's why they're so upset it's been released.

Hit the nail on the head, there.

 

[IceIce9]

I have a question, can the leaked video result in a mistrial?
I’ve seen it said elsewhere that it effectively taints the jury pool so he can’t have a fair trial but surely that’s the same as Winkleman spouting lie after lie, promoting their version of events?

I am sure potential jurors will be asked if they have seen the video, and if they have, they will be asked if they feel they are able to put it aside in order to be fair and impartial.

Many cases receive widespread media coverage and they are still able to seat a jury.

 

[IceIce9]

Since the beginning, the family has been on a publicity tour, not just to gain sympathy for themselves (which they would get automatically, since their child died) but to paint the cruise line as a negligent corporation which did not adhere to safety standards and thus caused their daughter's death. Their ultimate goal in my opinion was to turn public opinion against RCCL and put pressure on the company to offer them a big fat settlement. The video - which anybody can now see and makes it very obvious what grandpa did - puts a huge kibosh in their plans, and I think that's why they're so upset it's been released.

BBM

I think they were hoping the video would never be made public. From the start, it seems that this has been about the money.

I wonder if they had life insurance on Chloe?

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

BBM

I think they were hoping the video would never be made public. From the start, it seems that this has been about the money.

I wonder if they had life insurance on Chloe?

I'm sure all of this information and more will come out at the trial.

 

[justbreathe]

I can’t stop thinking “What if it was intentional?” A cop and a lawyer come up with a plan, use the grandfather after offering to get him out of debt and think that doing it in Puerto Rico will mean no charges.
Since I first read about this case when it happened I always thought SA was negligent as those windows are too high for a child.

Same. I don’t want to think it. But there is evil in the world.