IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #4

[IceIce9]

That's your opinion and I disagree. I've watched the video and it is blurry and shows nothing of intent. Mr. Anello has been charged with a misdemeanor. He didn't intentionally snuff out any child's life.

JMO

There are clearer videos posted on MSM sites now where you can clearly see how high he lifted her, and how he looked around, MOO is that he was looking to see if anyone was watching because he knew he wasn’t supposed to be holding her outside the window.

Then it looks like he hurled her out the window. MOO. But I recommend that you watch a clearly video and see if there is any doubt.

 

[SouthAussie]

There are clearer videos posted on MSM sites now where you can clearly see how high he lifted her, and how he looked around, MOO is that he was looking to see if anyone was watching because he knew he wasn’t supposed to be holding her outside the window.

Then it looks like he hurled her out the window. MOO. But I recommend that you watch a clearly video and see if there is any doubt.

IMO this is the best video - at the below link. I went frame by frame and took screen shots then zoomed in on them (but I am not posting them here because they are pretty distressing).
From about 37 sec mark he goes from ....

Bending over out of the window - all you can see is his back, his head is all the way out there
Then he pulls his head back in and bends to pick Chloe up
Then he straightens up with her in front of his belly, facing the camera
Then he holds her high, turned toward the window
Then holds her higher - above his head level - his arms outstretched
Then holds her outside the window (at best, holding her upright on the metal window ledge, she is completely out of view)
Then he is still standing straight while she is out of the window
Then he is bending over (you can still see his right bent arm)
Then him doing some back and forth motions a couple of times while bent over (maybe watching her fall)
Then he falls back from the window, to the floor

This all took about 7 secs.

Chilling new video of toddler cruise fall

 

[Safeguard]

IMO this is the best video - at the below link. I went frame by frame and took screen shots then zoomed in on them (but I am not posting them here because they are pretty distressing).
From about 37 sec mark he goes from ....

Bending over out of the window - all you can see is his back, his head is all the way out there
Then he pulls his head back in and bends to pick Chloe up
Then he straightens up with her in front of his belly, facing the camera
Then he holds her high, turned toward the window
Then holds her higher - above his head level - his arms outstretched
Then holds her outside the window (at best, holding her upright on the metal window ledge, she is completely out of view)
Then he is still standing straight while she is out of the window
Then he is bending over (you can still see his right bent arm)
Then him doing some back and forth motions a couple of times while bent over
Then he falls back from the window, to the floor

This all took about 7 secs.

Chilling new video of toddler cruise fall

That's the speeded up version. She was outside the window for 30 seconds in actually. I think the real time one is better, better quality too. imo

 

[SouthAussie]

That's the speeded up version. She was outside the window for 30 seconds in actually. I think the real time one is better, better quality too. imo

Do you have the link to that one? I watched this one in slow-mo because it is the clearest one I have yet seen.

 

[Safeguard]

Do you have the link to that one? I watched this one in slow-mo because it is the clearest one I have yet seen.

Give me a minute, getting ready to take my daughter to school...

 

[Montrealaise]

I agree with you. I've stayed away from this thread because of the cruel comments being made about the parents being greedy and that's why they filed the lawsuit. The parents are victims. This is a family very clearly in despair and Puerto Rico prosecutors are playing a very cruel game of "piling on."

Similar comments were made about Lane Grave's parents when he was killed by an alligator at Disney World. That they should have known there were very real alligators lurking in the lagoon in a park where everything else is pure fantasy. There is a now wall around that lagoon and a memorial to the child that is a sculpture of a lighthouse. The same logo is for the Lane Thomas Foundation. The Foundation is doing wonderful work providing financial support to parents of hospitalized children in need of life-saving organ transplants.

The wait of six months before filing misdemeanor charges is an indication to me that Puerto Rico's prosecutors have a political agenda. Shortly after Chloe's death there were massive protests in San Juan over corrupt government officials. The situation was dangerous and the cruise lines decided not to dock there. That cost San Juan a lot of tourism dollars. What better way to retaliate against the cruise line than exploit a grieving family that were their guests and create international publicity over an accidental death.

I think the wrongful death lawsuit will be settled very quickly and quietly and the result will be windows that can not be opened in areas where children might be. I also believe the parents will do something positive to ensure the legacy of their beautiful Chloe lives on.

JMO
Disney World unveils lighthouse sculpture to honor boy killed by alligator

Puerto Rico protests: Royal Caribbean, MSC Cruises cancel stops

" The result will be windows that can not be opened in areas where children might be".
Then that would be every window on the ship, since there are no child-free zones on the ship that I know of. In fact, why stop at ships? Why make sure that no windows in any building, even houses, can ever be opened, on the chance that an adult could lift a child up and out the window? I respect your opinion, but the problem was not the open window (which was high up, out of reach of any child) but the adult who for unknown reasons thought it was a good idea to hold a child out of the window.

 

[Chikkamma]

That's your opinion and I disagree. I've watched the video and it is blurry and shows nothing of intent. Mr. Anello has been charged with a misdemeanor. He didn't intentionally snuff out any child's life.

JMO

I never said he did it intentionally, but he did it nonetheless. And he could have done the same from a balcony or over the railing of the top deck. It had nothing to do with a window. Salvatore Anello’s reckless actions ended Chloe Wiegand’s life. There is no getting around this.

Caregivers who dangle babies off precipices and drop them must be held accountable, even if it was an accident. Chloe’s life belonged to HER (not her grandfather, not her parents) and it was stolen from her by a reckless adult who was supposed to be protecting her. He must answer to society for ending this child’s life. IMO.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

The obituary stated that she had one brother, a 10-yr old. It mentions many other relatives whom Chloe leaves behind, but not any other siblings. Also, it appears there were three sets of grandparents, because the obit lists four people as maternal grandparents. Apparently the mother's parents are divorced and both remarried. Who went on the cruise, though? All six?

And out of all those other adults, SA was chosen as caretaker. Ten minutes later, Chloe is dead.

 

[Safeguard]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=754098988428111

This is the one I think. It's really clear on my phone, I do recall it was discussed earlier in the last thread, and some kind soul even translated for us.

 

[IceIce9]

The wait of six months before filing misdemeanor charges is an indication to me that Puerto Rico's prosecutors have a political agenda. Shortly after Chloe's death there were massive protests in San Juan over corrupt government officials. The situation was dangerous and the cruise lines decided not to dock there. That cost San Juan a lot of tourism dollars. What better way to retaliate against the cruise line than exploit a grieving family that were their guests and create international publicity over an accidental death.

I think the wrongful death lawsuit will be settled very quickly and quietly and the result will be windows that can not be opened in areas where children might be. I also believe the parents will do something positive to ensure the legacy of their beautiful Chloe lives on.

Puerto Rico protests: Royal Caribbean, MSC Cruises cancel stops

Snipped by me for brevity

I am not understanding what Puerto Rican protests have to do with SA dropping Chloe out the window? Are you saying he wouldn’t have been charged in her death if there were no government protests?

 

[IceIce9]

That's your opinion and I disagree. I've watched the video and it is blurry and shows nothing of intent. Mr. Anello has been charged with a misdemeanor. He didn't intentionally snuff out any child's life.

JMO

Caregivers who leave kids in hot cars, or fail to buckle their kids into car seats don’t intentionally snuff out their children’s lives either, but the result is still the same. A dead child, due to their negligence, and they need to be held responsible.

 

[fabvab]

View attachment 221903

I finally figured out why this pic bothered me. It’s her clothing. Here is link stating what to wear to hockey game. Average temps for professional game are 60-65 degrees F. Recreational are about 55* F. Wouldn’t she be dressed warmer? Are Ice Hockey Arenas Cold? (and what you should wear) | Hockey Answered

 

[neesaki]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=754098988428111

This is the one I think. It's really clear on my phone, I do recall it was discussed earlier in the last thread, and some kind soul even translated for us.

This is the first time I’ve been able to see his actions from this angle, from behind him with a good view of little Chloe as he lifts her up and over, then out. He looked way down with his head out the window before he picked her up, then again after he does that same thing. What on earth is he looking for?
After that, it looks like he just lets go of her. Why?!!! WTH

 

[Safeguard]

This is the first time I’ve been able to see his actions from this angle, from behind him with a good view of little Chloe as he lifts her up and over, then out. He looked way down with his head out the window before he picked her up, then again after he does that same thing. What on earth is he looking for?
After that, it looks like he just lets go of her. Why?!!! WTH

The forward facing view shows me more than the side view. But for some people the side view is the more telling one, Both together like this is just unimaginable that this would ever been done by anyone ever.

If he really thought there was glass there, maybe I could see him trying it. And even then she would have been hurt when she slipped...

But the video makes it crystal clear, he knew that window was open. So I'm just stupefied!

 

[justbreathe]

The more I think about it, the more I believe Chloe's parents are just engaging in misguided 'busy work' to postpone dealing with the awful reality that their lives have changed forever. It must be dreadfully quiet in their house now. They may be running from beginning the hard grieving process. I blame the lawyer for exploiting their pain more than anyone else.

SA said in his interview, when asked what keeps him going, "this process" meaning the legal stuff. And he said after which he is going to need some...help.
( This small part of the interview is markedly different from when he is lying imo It *feels* like the truth. That old court room saying, "The truth makes a sound like the ring of a bell").

I can believe that of the parents as well. They were not able to do anything for their baby after she fell and got hurt. As parents that instinctive need to help your child is SO powerful.
I can imagine some transference here. All *this* is better than the awful helplessness which is probably intolerably painful. Excruciating I bet.

They may very well feel compelled. They simply must do something to help someone since they cannot help their baby girl ever again. This way they can at least feel like they are fighting for her. (while also avoiding beginning to live their new quieter, sadder life and really moving on from being able to parent her).

A sudden unexpected and shocking event such as this was, can drive people to do the most inexplicably self destructive things. Perhaps this is all that is keeping them from total despair. They could be hanging on to sanity by only the thinnest of threads. I would be.

This is a great post that explains maybe what the heck the parents are thinking.

I think is also how they can avoid facing the fact that SA dropped their baby out a window.

And it reaffirms my belief lawyers are evil.

 

[mickey2942]

This is a great post that explains maybe what the heck the parents are thinking.

I think is also how they can avoid facing the fact that SA dropped their baby out a window.

And it reaffirms my belief lawyers are evil.

In a way, maybe that makes sense. The Mother is an attorney, so she goes into "work" mode, to avoid the pain. I can see that happening.

And not saying anything regarding SA, is probably best for the family involved.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

In a way, maybe that makes sense. The Mother is an attorney, so she goes into "work" mode, to avoid the pain. I can see that happening.

And not saying anything regarding SA, is probably best for the family involved.

JMOO but you would think that they would have wanted to be part of the investigation right after the incident. To find out EXACTLY what happened to their child, since none of them were present to witness it.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

I can't recall the source, will hv to re-read but notice Chloe wears same outfit(lavender jumper) on the flight,, the airport photo where SA holds her, the RCCL boarding picture where her brother is holding her and the pic of her with her mom where its captioned that it was taken earlier that day.

Thanks. Very perceptive of you to notice the same outfit in several photos. If the family actually flew to San Juan the same day, they must have gotten an awfully early start I wonder where their flight originated? Indianapolis or Chicago? Non-stop flight would be at least 5-6 hours; add time to that if they weren't on direct flight. San Juan is on Caribbean time: 2-hour time difference from Central (Indiana/Illinois). By 4:30PM (6:30PM for them), everyone was probably exhausted and ready for a nap. DH and I always fly to port city a day or two prior to cruising. It's especially necessary for winter cruises when weather issues can delay/cancel flights.

 

[oviedo]

These windows are similar in style (my ship was not Freedom) you can tell they are open - I think most of us agree on- what you can’t see in a picture is how the wind absolutely blows through those windows even while docked at the pier - no doubt ( unless you have no feeling in your upper body ) you would mistake that for what it is - a breeze . The last two are the pictures from that open window looking down at the concrete peer - that’s the view he saw - a bustle of activity with passenger loading on the gangway -forklifts loading up endless food on pallets—and people that look like ants from this vantage point - as I mentioned Friday we’ve all posted varying theories and our thoughts on what happened that afternoon but until you’ve stood 11 decks up and looked out the window to the concrete peer below you really can’t imagine how stunningly awful this was IMO. Knowing he placed that baby over the rail and out the window (with his bulk not an easy task- my arm would go outside the window only if I pressed against the handrail which stopped me) and dropped her it’s almost impossible to understand- and JMO there needs to be consequences to these actions (and not a plea jail with no time) but I respect PR and if it was truly offered - it’s an olive branch to spare the family. There are cameras everywhere and I’ve no doubt they have many different views - and FWIW I saw at least a dozen toddlers her age and not a single one was held anywhere near the open windows in all my time spent on deck 11. And the ship docked next to us in -RCCL- Coco Cay also had the same windows open and both ships had the smoking side facing the pier - just FYI

If they haven't already, besides watching the video to see exactly how Chloe plunged to her death from the cruise ship, Chloe's parents need to sit SA down in his favorite Grandpa chair and ask him, point blank, "What were you thinking when you lifted Chloe high into the air and placed her outside the window of the ship, 11 stories above a concrete dock?"

 

[oviedo]

Since the Freedom (built in 2006), refurbished 3 years ago and the Voyager (built 1998) was refurbished this year and still the windows remain openable.

Surely if RC knew the windows were non-regulation that’s the first thing they would’ve been changed. Right?

Royal Caribbean to Invest $900 Million in Revitalizing Cruise Ships
Royal Caribbean to Invest $900 Million in Revitalizing Cruise Ships

Windows still opened on my ship and the twin on the private island - this is the attorney comparing apples to oranges IMO