IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #5

[lonetraveler]

You can see it. I've been doing screen grabs and marking them. She still has it on when she is fully extended out the window in the bright sunlight just before she completely disappears from the frame and his arms are still outstretched. It's just hard to see when she is inside and everything is all shadows

Anyway to post the screen grabs?

 

[lonetraveler]

Sorry for any duplicate posts. For some reason I'm having a problem with my posts.

 

[Forever Young]

Just wanted to point out that at the 16.27 time of the video, he is videoed leaning outside of the window. THIS, IMO is the very reason, he should jump at the chance to accept the plea deal. Color blindness is done at this time.

Well, to be fair, my point is that is does not show his head going past the window ledge because we do not know the depth of this opening.

I am thinking that this is what we can anticipate as a defense - that he still did not know there was not glass there.

 

[Forever Young]

DBM

 

[Fidobell]

I hope this helps a bit.
View attachment 222866

Thank you , this photo gives a visual ideal of the 'space' much appreciated

 

[al66pine]

Sequence of Events, Per Complaint.

For some reason I imagine this going down as someone comes to the family while they were in the dining area, whatever, about Chloe’s arrangements in their cabin, SA says, “Oh, I’ll go get her,” and he finds KW and offers to watch Chloe while mom goes to speak with cabin steward.....

@justbreathe sbm IDK the sequence of events. Your post makes sense but differs from the Complaint. When drafting the Complaint, for estimates of time, i wonder if atty-W used AW & KSW's estimates, or did he have more videos w time stamps from RCCL? Or?

Per Complaint, allegations, starting on page 3:
"Subject Incident
11. On or about July 7, 2019, at approximately 1:15 p.m., the family boarded the vessel in San Juan, Puerto Rico for a 7-night Southern Caribbean cruise. Upon boarding, the family went to the Windjammer Café for lunch. After lunch, Mrs. Schultz-Wiegand and Chloe changed into swimsuits, and at approximately 2:40 p.m., they began to play in the pool(s) aboard the ship.
12. At or around 3:50 p.m., Mrs. Schultz Wiegand needed to go help with an issue related to the cruise, and as such, Mr. Anello came up to the H2O Zone on Deck 11 of the vessel to supervise Chloe, his 18-month-old granddaughter, as shown below:
pic of Chloe
13. The H2O Zone is advertised by Defendant to be a “kids’… water park[.]”
14. At all times material, Mr. Anello was closely supervising Chloe as she played in the kids’
water park. Shortly after 4 p.m., Chloe walked over to a nearby wall of glass on the same deck
(Deck 11), and she was followed closely by Mr. Anello."

 

[lonetraveler]

Well, to be fair, my point is that is does not show his head going past the window ledge because we do not know the depth of this opening.

I am thinking that this is what we can anticipate as a defense - that he still did not know there was not glass there.

Ok, if you see that it is just his butt/lower back inside then you have to come to the conclusion that the rest of his body is leaning forward, twelve inches goes to chest, then it leaves the head outside of the window. It is, what it is.

 

[Safeguard]

Once again, Good post!

I can really feel you as you're trying to think this through... rsbbm

This is what makes his actions so very strange. He is so casual. Yet people say holding their phone over the rail takes their breath away. They say not to put babies on the countertop or edge of the bed so they don’t fall. So did he actually believe the window was th

That was what was so striking right?

It took my breath away just watching from here!

I just can't see it, unless he thought there was solid glass there. And even then, that's awfully casual... but that would be the only I could even kinda, sorta see being so nonchalant.

I mean I have held my babies up to windows, but you better believe I was absolutely certain that they were, in fact, there and sound! By actually touching them, even if I could plainly see our reflection!

That was the thing, that did give me a moments pause, about if he really might have thought the window was closed.

But that's not what he told PR authorities on the scene! I find that little factoid hard to get past!

Why not? Winkleman (and, to fair Chloe's parents), claim SA has repeatedly said he thought there was glass there, but not a single early report, nor anyone not involved in the legal matters, has reported that.

You would think PR officials would have seriously questioned that part of his account, as we all are...

Yet none of them even mention a "mistake" of any kind. They flat out quote him as having told officers he had her looking out the window and he dropped her.

That even feels like the truth, when you look at the footage. Doesn't seem like he was trying to tap any glass, at any time, so why not? Why not get closer to the bottom windows, ya know, the ones that actually were closed?

It will be interesting to see if anyone else aboard testifies to what he said.

I didn't like the way Winkleman stated that "no one could disprove SAs account because no witness have come forward".

That's not the same as saying SA's account is the truth.

 

[lonetraveler]

Thank you , this photo gives a visual ideal of the 'space' much appreciated

Yes, that is a long way from the wooden railing, IMO

 

[jeena]

Cell phones work in port.

Since I haven't been on a cruise in years I am ignorant about the available technology on ships. So are you saying cell phones can only be used in port because of acceess to land based cell towers nearby? Cell phones must work at sea until the ship gets too far away from the cell towers, correct? BTW, I hope you had a great time on your cruise, and that window photo you took doesn't look good for SA's defense. How can he not tell the window was open at that short distance from the railing? Thanks for posting it.

 

[MsFacetious]

Well, to be fair, my point is that is does not show his head going past the window ledge because we do not know the depth of this opening.

I am thinking that this is what we can anticipate as a defense - that he still did not know there was not glass there.

I wouldn't be surprised if they claim it wouldn't be physically possible for him to lean that far out.

 

[they'll get you]

He is in IT, correct? You would think that the ability to discern color would have come up early on. Did he ever mention it to his co-workers, "hey, I am having a hard time seeing the green font"?

But I agree. His demeanor suggests he was having a hard time believing that himself.

Some Govt jobs require medical tests before employment is that the same over there?
I’m wanting pre-exsting proof.

 

[they'll get you]

It wouldn’t matter if he was color blind or legally blind, he would have known the window was open when he leaned out. Twice.

This.

 

[justbreathe]

Sequence of Events, Per Complaint.
@justbreathe sbm IDK the sequence of events. Your post makes sense but differs from the Complaint. When drafting the Complaint, for estimates of time, i wonder if atty-W used AW & KSW's estimates, or did he have more videos w time stamps from RCCL? Or?

Per Complaint, allegations, starting on page 3:
"Subject Incident
11. On or about July 7, 2019, at approximately 1:15 p.m., the family boarded the vessel in San Juan, Puerto Rico for a 7-night Southern Caribbean cruise. Upon boarding, the family went to the Windjammer Café for lunch. After lunch, Mrs. Schultz-Wiegand and Chloe changed into swimsuits, and at approximately 2:40 p.m., they began to play in the pool(s) aboard the ship.
12. At or around 3:50 p.m., Mrs. Schultz Wiegand needed to go help with an issue related to the cruise, and as such, Mr. Anello came up to the H2O Zone on Deck 11 of the vessel to supervise Chloe, his 18-month-old granddaughter, as shown below:
pic of Chloe
13. The H2O Zone is advertised by Defendant to be a “kids’… water park[.]”
14. At all times material, Mr. Anello was closely supervising Chloe as she played in the kids’
water park. Shortly after 4 p.m., Chloe walked over to a nearby wall of glass on the same deck
(Deck 11), and she was followed closely by Mr. Anello."

So - SA went to get KW and watch Chloe while she took care of the business? Where was everyone else at this time, I wonder?

It still sounds to me like the porter found the group and SA offered to go get KW and watch CW so KW could do her thing.

I mean, did KW call SA on the phone to come get Chloe? It makes more sense to me if SA went to her.

 

[Forever Young]

So - SA went to get KW and watch Chloe while she took care of the business? Where was everyone else at this time, I wonder?

It still sounds to me like the porter found the group and SA offered to go get KW and watch CW so KW could do her thing.

I mean, did KW call SA on the phone to come get Chloe? It makes more sense to me if SA went to her.

My idea has always been that both sets of grandparents (4 additional adults) were taken along to take turns watching the kids. SA was unfortunately the first to be called on.

 

[neesaki]

Yes, this piece of information is going to be critical. Since the window ledge was 18” away from the guardrail, it must be determined if SA’s head did indeed go past the window pane when he leaned over.

I am 5’5” and the distance from the top of my head to top of my armpit is 14 inches. I am fairly certain SA’s head would have cleared the window pane, but we shall see.

I know what I saw, and he put his head and upper body outwards, then, he looked DOWN. How could he have looked down without his head outside of the window. I seriously doubt he was just looking down at the window frame.

 

[jeena]

In the YouTube CW video by Charlton that I posted about previously, there is a photo of a toddler being held out of a balcony or window while being held by her swimsuit back straps. It made me wonder if SA grabbed CW by her pink swimsuit back straps so she would dangle horizontally with arms outstretched until he let her go. Sound plausible to anyone?

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

Sequence of Events, Per Complaint.
@justbreathe sbm IDK the sequence of events. Your post makes sense but differs from the Complaint. When drafting the Complaint, for estimates of time, i wonder if atty-W used AW & KSW's estimates, or did he have more videos w time stamps from RCCL? Or?

Per Complaint, allegations, starting on page 3:
"Subject Incident
11. On or about July 7, 2019, at approximately 1:15 p.m., the family boarded the vessel in San Juan, Puerto Rico for a 7-night Southern Caribbean cruise. Upon boarding, the family went to the Windjammer Café for lunch. After lunch, Mrs. Schultz-Wiegand and Chloe changed into swimsuits, and at approximately 2:40 p.m., they began to play in the pool(s) aboard the ship.
12. At or around 3:50 p.m., Mrs. Schultz Wiegand needed to go help with an issue related to the cruise, and as such, Mr. Anello came up to the H2O Zone on Deck 11 of the vessel to supervise Chloe, his 18-month-old granddaughter, as shown below:
pic of Chloe
13. The H2O Zone is advertised by Defendant to be a “kids’… water park[.]”
14. At all times material, Mr. Anello was closely supervising Chloe as she played in the kids’
water park. Shortly after 4 p.m., Chloe walked over to a nearby wall of glass on the same deck
(Deck 11), and she was followed closely by Mr. Anello."

BBM Didin't look like SA was following Chloe all that closely. He was letting her run too far ahead to my way of thinking. Terrible choice of caregiver, he doesn't seem to have the sense God gave a green bean. JMOO

 

[Forever Young]

In the YouTube CW video by Charlton that I posted about previously, there is a photo of a toddler being held out of a balcony or window while being held by her swimsuit back straps. It made me wonder if SA grabbed CW by her pink swimsuit back straps so she would dangle horizontally with arms outstretched until he let her go. Sound plausible to anyone?

Can you post a link to this video? I don't think I have seen it. TIA

 

[they'll get you]

He easily breeches the window opening with his arm, but could his head do the same while leaning over the railing?

Yes. You can see this lifeguard’s height and if he were to stand on the little 4” ledge on tippy toes he could definitely have his upper torso through that window.
Then imagine his arms extended out....