IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #6

[mheido67]

I don't recall seeing that. So does he climb up on a chair, since it's allegedly impossible to just look out the window?

it’s possible to see down to the pier through the lower glass window. Since the windows angle out you can actually see the pier by looking down through the window. That’s how he saw her falling. There are photos showing this in the plaintiffs motion to compel filings.

 

[they'll get you]

That looks like the inside of the railing is 13 inches to the window. Maybe the railing is 5 inches wide.

Imo

 

[Chikkamma]

So many comments on the recent news articles reference SA’s “numerous DUIs”. Can anyone here corroborate this? I know about the multiple seatbelt violations, but nothing about a DUI.

 

[justbreathe]

I think he described it in the last interview. He said he watched her fall all the way down.
Also I think there was a witness who said he dropped to the floor right after she fell. Or maybe he said that himself.
Maybe I'm not remembering correctly and he just said he first looked on the floor but either way apparently he looked there first before looking out the window and seeing her fall all the way down.

Maybe, if he was actually on the floor, he could see her fall through the lower window? Idk
It's hard to visualize without a picture of where he was and knowing his line of vision.

Pic from a member here . SA does drop to the floor in the video and per witnesses.

I never thought that perhaps he fell to the floor, literally looking for her there.

I always assumed he collapsed from shock.

 

[justbreathe]

Wow. This has been a really captivating thread that has got me occupied and spending way too much of my days on. In the end, I'm not going to even try to guess what was going on in SA's mind. All I can conclude is he is solely responsible for poor Chloe's demise. The suit against RCCL is ridiculous and the reenactment so utterly laughable I can't even....

After reading what seems like hundreds of pages on this thread, we all try to make sense of what happened.....maybe it does not have to make sense, not for the normal person anyway. So I go back to the beginning.

I believe the first reports of him holding her out of the window sill in 'an act of games.' I came upon a video which was taken soon after the incident, a Puerto Rican TV reporter who described what a witness saw. Chloe being held in the arms of grandpa, swinging her back and forth unto the opening. That made sense to me, tying that action up with the side view video. Some of the sleuthers also mentioned the odd movements of SA just before he fell to the floor. That must be it. He looked to me like he was going forward and back, one, two, and after the third time he falls back.

That just rocked me. Could it be that he practically tossed or chucked her out? I don't think intentionally, he is just a reckless person and it finally caught up with him on this day. At this point, if I were grandpa I'd be hoping I was drunk or under the influence, at least I can say I wasn't in my right mind.

And that's when the horror really set in. And would explain why SA and family are in such denial. I can't wrap my head around it?!?!?

I also think RCCL has better videos which will be more damning. And witnesses.

I can't wait for this to be over. I imagine SA and the Wiegands are going through hell.

JMOO, IMOO, Etc........

This whole post makes sense! All great points!

SA leaning her forward, then back like “whooo look how high we are” makes sense for the position he was holding her, the strange movements back and forth, and is something people do.

I’ve never heard of banging on glass for fun.

 

[justbreathe]

And if his actions involved more than losing his grip and dropping her, rather he threw her, or as you say flung her out.... then was surely no accident and required intent.

Most apt description I heard was he heave-hoed her out the window.

 

[MsBetsy]

Yes, this is exactly what he meant I believe. As he looked down at the floor he didn’t see her there. Instead through the lower glass he saw her falling to the pier below. Horrible.

I genuinely believe his attention was not fully on CW and the details of the window. I think he assumed there was glass and casually tried to hold her forward so she could touch the glass but he wasn’t really looking with any focus. It was just another opportunity for her to bang on a window. To pass some time. So when she fell he was unaware of her actual position relative to the window frame. Clearly, if he didn’t recognize there was no glass he couldn’t have been very focused on the window. She fell, he thought she would be at his feet but she was much further forward than he realized. To my mind this explains both his surprise that she hadn’t fallen at his feet and that he didn’t realize there was no glass. He was just not paying attention. He was careless. And I doubt he would have noticed a warning label if there had been one present.

This is what I think happened too. He wasn't paying attention, he acted impetuously. He may have had other things on his mind and he wasn't focusing on what he was doing.
I'm sure he wishes he could go back to that moment and do everything differently, but it's too late and he will have to pay the consequences.
Even though he will probably not spend any time in prison he will likely be haunted for the rest of his life.

 

[justbreathe]

BBM

Her head is normal and beautiful.
Posters questioning pre existing medical conditions ?
From how her head looks?
Is this Websleuths?

Tbh imo she did have a large head. Not freakishly large, just on the large end of normal. Might just need to grow into it. Imo dad has a big head, also.

She was a preemie, but appears to have bern healthy now.

 

[MsBetsy]

View attachment 227983

Thanks, I thought it looked wider than 2 inches.

 

[al66pine]

Banging on the Glass? Substantiated.

Here is the obit listing from the neighbor. It is on WeRemember by Erin Montie

Chloe Rae Margaret Wiegand (2017-2019)

@Lawnguylander1964 Thx for link.
Lots of comments from ppl affiliated w son's hockey activities.
Noticed one about Chloe banging on the glass, but forgot to pay attn to date of posting.

 

[MsBetsy]

Pic from a member here . SA does drop to the floor in the video and per witnesses.

I never thought that perhaps he fell to the floor, literally looking for her there.

I always assumed he collapsed from shock.

That's what I thought too, until he said he looked for her on the floor.

 

[MsMarple]

Chloe Wiegand

Thanks for posting the video again. Something I struggled with and while I think it's becoming clearer is the part starting around -1:08 where SA picks Chloe up and appears to put her on the railing. Then at about -0:45 he appears to bring his arm/elbow way back then proceeds to put his head further in.

Is this where he changes his hold on her to one arm?

At around -0:25 he seems to keep leaning his head towards the open window, which is where he was trying to get Chloe closer to "bang." Cripes. Shortly after he drops to the ground when Chloe goes out the window. I still have a hard time believing 100% that SA actually held her outside of the window but after seeing MW's reenactment pic where the actor holds the doll on the window ledge it seems to become a bit more believable to me.

The side camera angle is problematic but it's pretty clear that SA leaned far in towards the open window. For me it's just a question of how far his head went. But even if he didn't stick his own head completely out how could he possibly not know the window was open at that point? His nose had to be somewhere between a few inches and all the way out.

Anyway, I've watched all the videos more times than I can count and aside from what I see and/or can't see the one consistent factor is that SA either knew the window was open or was severely impaired for some natural or unnatural reason. MOO.

 

[Cool Cats]

Thanks, I thought it looked wider than 2 inches.

You are right! That other photo measurement was distorted. Weird. Pays to check around. 19 inches was right on the money then.

 

[Lawsmygame2]

See the two documents below. This is public record.

Indiana Supreme Court public access case search - MyCase

https://public.courts.in.gov/mycase...MoepGBsp1BySMJuyhL0IF_nLKtu28vRxqbLmozFwfZLg2

 

[Cool Cats]

Thanks for posting the video again. Something I struggled with and while I think it's becoming clearer is the part starting around -1:08 where SA picks Chloe up and appears to put her on the railing. Then at about -0:45 he appears to bring his arm/elbow way back then proceeds to put his head further in.

Is this where he changes his hold on her to one arm?

At around -0:25 he seems to keep leaning his head towards the open window, which is where he was trying to get Chloe closer to "bang." Cripes. Shortly after he drops to the ground when Chloe goes out the window. I still have a hard time believing 100% that SA actually held her outside of the window but after seeing MW's reenactment pic where the actor holds the doll on the window ledge it seems to become a bit more believable to me.

The side camera angle is problematic but it's pretty clear that SA leaned far in towards the open window. For me it's just a question of how far his head went. But even if he didn't stick his own head completely out how could he possibly not know the window was open at that point? His nose had to be somewhere between a few inches and all the way out.

Anyway, I've watched all the videos more times than I can count and aside from what I see and/or can't see the one consistent factor is that SA either knew the window was open or was severely impaired for some natural or unnatural reason. MOO.

Color blindness is his excuse.

Grandfather charged in girl's cruise ship death says colorblindness may have been a factor

Anello told "CBS This Morning" lead national correspondent David Begnaud that he is colorblind and believes that may have contributed to him not realizing the window was open.

"Some of the people who've been on the boat have written to me and said, 'David, the windows are tinted, and so it is pretty easy to recognize that it's open,'" Begnaud said.

"I'm colorblind, David," Anello said. "I don't know. I just never saw it. ... I've been told that that's a reason that it might have happened."

 

[Cool Cats]

Is it in the MSM that grandpa refused a breathalyzer test?

If so, it's not color blindness why he couldn't see the window, it's mental impairment from alcohol. Opinion

Because people refuse when they have had alcohol.

 

[al66pine]

SA's Clothing & Footwear?

....I still wonder why he was watching her at the water area. Wouldn’t he have needed water or swim apparel? Could that be the reason they didn’t stay near the water play area?

@fabvab sbm Good point seems like it, maybe depending on water pressure & other factors in the splash pad. W the circumstances of his being summoned to watch Chloe, was there time to change clothing?
I wonder how much water was in the splash pad floor. More than a puddle; does it accumulate? If SA was not wearing flip-flops or water shoes, probably did not want to get street shoes all wet. In vids, can anyone see his footwear?
How high was the water pressure in those nozzles, fountains, decorative showers, etc. A mist? A light drizzle? Or enough to soak thru clothing? In vids, did anyone think his clothing was drenched?

Might have been annoying for him. jmo

 

[Cool Cats]

Why did the article say 19" ? Humm.

Clearly this is apx. 15 1\2 inches from outer edge of window to outer edge of railing. 3 1\2 inches off what is in the article.

Railing only apx. 2 inches wide.

Never mind this post of mine, a better photo shows a different measurement.

 

[LietKynes]

It's possible that if Chloe had a medical condition it had advanced.
The back and sides of her head seem to be bulging over her little ears.

Here is a photo from msm taken closer to the time of the cruise :

 

[MsMarple]

Color blindness is his excuse.

Grandfather charged in girl's cruise ship death says colorblindness may have been a factor

Anello told "CBS This Morning" lead national correspondent David Begnaud that he is colorblind and believes that may have contributed to him not realizing the window was open.

"Some of the people who've been on the boat have written to me and said, 'David, the windows are tinted, and so it is pretty easy to recognize that it's open,'" Begnaud said.

"I'm colorblind, David," Anello said. "I don't know. I just never saw it. ... I've been told that that's a reason that it might have happened."

And also because the mean old safety railing kept SA from being able to stand close enough to the window to see that it was open.

From the complaint:
Due to the distance between Mr. Anello standing at the wooden rail and the glass pane 18 inches in front of him, it was not apparent to Mr. Anello that the glass pane in front of him was, in fact, a window that had been slid all the way open so that there was no glass at all in the single frame in front of him.
Complaint - Wiegand vs Royal Caribbean Cruises LTD - LMAW, PA