IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #6

[Forever Young]

The "doll" that is used in the reenactment video/photos is offensive. What were they thinking? Chloe was a toddler - not a teen with a budding bosom wearing a bikini. The "doll" has longer legs than a toddler, and the weight distribution is just so wrong.

I'd also like to point out that the height and weight of the "actor" are not similar to Grandpa. SA has a noticeable belly that protrudes much further forward than the model.

Yes, looks very cheap, and cheapens the image of a baby.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Yes, looks very cheap, and cheapens the image of a baby.

Is this really how the Weigands want Chloe to be depicted in a courtroom? I would not allow that sleazy doll representing my precious little girl who hadn't even reached her second birthday. It's disgraceful

 

[justbreathe]

Why did he keep trying to reach her farther and farther out? To bang on the glass!

I still think this is negligent homicide. It was extremely negligent to lift her on the railing. But I am really starting to believe that he really did think there was glass there, at that moment in time.

I have been saying for a long time that I thought this "defense" (of not being able to get past the window opening) was what they would go for. I have done the measurements on myself, and I could not lean over a 4 foot high railing and forward 18 inches, then past that.

I brought it up in comment on the La Comay reenactment. They stated that the 18 inches referred to was not correct, so they did not use that measurement - because at 18 inches, it was impossible for "Rocky" to get his head outside the window.

One of the "legs" of negligent homicide is to be aware of a dangerous situation. They are saying that SA was not aware of any danger, (thus not negligent) because he thought there was glass there. And since he himself could not have reached to where the glass began, they cannot prove that he knew there was no glass.

They cannot prove he would have touched where the glass would have been if the window had been closed. Which means nothing.

He should have still been able to see the clarity of the space, feel the breeze, smell the ocean, hear the sounds... He could still use all his other senses.

This is so weird watching winky make these arguments. SA picked her up and over the safety railing, in front of an open window and dropped her. Dangling is irrelevant really.

 

[al66pine]

Plaintiff's Atty's Expert's Inspection of Ship?
W all the hue & cry demanding that experts be allowed to board ship, to examine, make measurements, take photos, take vids, I expected a squadron of ppl w tablets, special lighting, light reflector-screens, Hollywood-style cameras, life-size toddler mannequin, digital/laser measuring instruments, tripods, array of lenses, gizmos, etc. I realize info in doc filed yesterday may be only a tiny portion of evd collected.
Still I was a bit surprised to see only 6 still photos, a few w not-to-toddler-scale, bikini-clad Barbie-style doll and a man holding Home Depot-style measuring tape. I'll stay tuned for more definitive reenactments.

And those critical measurements they needed? "This photo was taken in the same location, but two steps to the right of the CCTV camera."
Those two steps - would they be Mr. Re-enactor size steps or "Barbie-model" size steps? Or?

 

[Forever Young]

Plaintiff's Atty's Expert's Inspection of Ship?
W all the hue & cry demanding that experts be allowed to board ship, to examine, make measurements, take photos, take vids, I expected a squadron of ppl w tablets, special lighting, light reflector-screens, Hollywood-style cameras, life-size toddler mannequin, digital/laser measuring instruments, tripods, array of lenses, gizmos, etc. I realize info in doc filed yesterday may be only a tiny portion of evd collected.
Still I was a bit surprised to see only 6 still photos, a few w not-to-toddler-scale, bikini-clad Barbie-style doll and a man holding Home Depot-style measuring tape. I'll stay tuned for more definitive reenactments.

And those critical measurements they needed? "This photo was taken in the same location, but two steps to the right of the CCTV camera."
Those two steps - would they be Mr. Re-enactor size steps or "Barbie-model" size steps? Or?

OK, now I'm certain this is a contingency case. These expenses are covered by the attorney?

 

[Ears]

I've read a comment from someone, who has been on the ship. It is pretty hot there, that is why the window is usualy open and you do feel the wind and fresh air from it in this sauna-hot room.
MO

 

[neesaki]

I wonder if there are videos of SA drinking at the bar. I hope they check this.

 

[al66pine]

Contingency Cases, Who Pays?

OK, now I'm certain this is a contingency case. These expenses are covered by the attorney?

@Forever Young. Clipped from a "Letter of Engagement" form, for contingency cases. It is a sample contract for atty & client to sign.
"2. Legal fees: The legal fee to be paid to the Attorney is a contingent fee, as follows:....[xx%]
3. Client Responsible for Costs: Besides the legal fees, the Client is responsible for payment of all out-of-pocket expenses. Examples of out-of-pocket expenses include, but are not limited to, costs of court filing, Sheriff’s service of process fees, deposition transcripts, expert witness fees, telephone toll charges, travel and investigation expenses. The Attorney agrees to advance the costs of the underlying case and to accept payment from the Client’s portion of any proceeds of the case." bbm

IMO, IME, in personal injury/wrongful death cases, taken on a contingency basis, provisions ^ re client's obligation to pay costs & out of pocket fees are typical. More at link.
Free Lawyer Engagement Letter (Contingent Fee) Form | PDF Template | Form Download

 

[Lawnguylander1964]

SA could have been drinking a lot the night before and at breakfast.

When people are on vacation, they tend to let loose and I imagine many don't wait until they are on the boat to start.

 

[FactFinder3000]

Something just doesn't seem to add up here. In the video, at around 8:02, it seems SA has no problem setting his elbows down and leaning way over and out the window. I would like to know SA's height and the railing height.

IMPACTANTE | ¡Video exclusivo dentro del crucero cuando el abuelo, Salvatore Anello, asoma a la niña por la ventana del piso 11! #QueBochinche #LaComay

 

[ReadySet]

The reenactment reminds me of the OJ glove stunt. "If the glove doesn't fit you have to acquit."
OJ was able to position his hand and fingers so that the glove wouldn't fit.
The reenactor was able to position his body so that he couldn't lean farther.
JMO

 

[Forever Young]

Contingency Cases, Who Pays?
@Forever Young. Clipped from a form online, for contingency cases.
"2. Legal fees: The legal fee to be paid to the Attorney is a contingent fee, as follows:....[xx%]
3. Client Responsible for Costs: Besides the legal fees, the Client is responsible for payment of all out-of-pocket expenses. Examples of out-of-pocket expenses include, but are not limited to, costs of court filing, Sheriff’s service of process fees, deposition transcripts, expert witness fees, telephone toll charges, travel and investigation expenses. The Attorney agrees to advance the costs of the underlying case and to accept payment from the Client’s portion of any proceeds of the case." bbm

IMO, IME, in personal injury/wrongful death cases, taken on a contingency basis, provisions ^ re client's obligation to pay costs & out of pocket fees are typical. More at link.
Free Lawyer Engagement Letter (Contingent Fee) Form | PDF Template | Form Download

BUT, The Attorney agrees to advance the costs of the underlying case and to accept payment from the Client’s portion of any proceeds of the case."

 

[LietKynes]

In the videos, SA appears to look out of that window.
He knew it was open; imo.

 

[Ears]

Can anyone please explain why it took the company so long to present the video? My only guess is to wear out those sueing them. Like, make Winkleman spend it all and defeat himself while they have all the proofs to show in the end.

 

[Montrealaise]

I agree. This isn't RCCL's first rodeo with MW. He makes a point of filing these lawsuits very quickly after an incident in hopes that the cruise line will agree to settle quickly to escape bad publicity. MW convinced his clients that they would receive a big payout because RCCL wouldn't want bad press about the death of a toddler on one of their ships. Once criminal charges were brought against SA, the case ceased to be an unfortunate "accident" for which RCCL would have likely compensated the family. The criminal charges put a damper on the lawsuit, and that's probably why Chloe's parents were against SA having any responsibility for what happened to their child.

You said it perfectly. MW knows he has a very weak case and will not get a cent unless RCLL gives the family a settlement, which explains the huge media tour - the tv interviews and the press conferences, all designed to sway public opinion against the cruise line. Except it isn't working that way - almost all of the comments I have read here and elsewhere say that SA is solely at fault for the child's death. I'm wondering whether the family knows it, too. That would explain their dismay and anger at the release of the video - because they know the video directly contradicts all of their allegations.

 

[Forever Young]

Something just doesn't seem to add up here. In the video, at around 8:02, it seems SA has no problem setting his elbows down and leaning way over and out the window. I would like to know SA's height and the railing height.

IMPACTANTE | ¡Video exclusivo dentro del crucero cuando el abuelo, Salvatore Anello, asoma a la niña por la ventana del piso 11! #QueBochinche #LaComay

They said he was 5 foot 11 inches tall. The railing is 4 feet high. That allows a little less than 2 feet of the body to go over the railing. The arms could reach farther, but again, his elbows are on the railing.

IMO, yes, he is leaning on his elbows, but he is not leaning way over and out. His back and backside are behind the railing. MOST of him is behind the railing. IMO you could not have your elbows resting on the railing and lean all the way out. You could only lean out as far as the railing would let you go. No more than the upper chest area.

 

[Forever Young]

The reenactment reminds me of the OJ glove stunt. "If the glove doesn't fit you have to acquit."
OJ was able to position his hand and fingers so that the glove wouldn't fit.
The reenactor was able to position his body so that he couldn't lean farther.
JMO

I was thinking the same thing. I remember KNOWING at the time, that leather shrinks if it gets wet. I cannot believe how no one else seemed to know that.

 

[oviedo]

Can anyone please explain why it took the company so long to present the video? My only guess is to wear out those sueing them. Like, make Winkleman spend it all and defeat himself while they have all the proofs to show in the end.

It was offered the family refused to view it - and claim they have yet to see it in their December interview rounds ETA - you really can’t believe anything MW says about anything in this case IMO - the distortion of the facts he has made in the media is stunning
JMO
—-
The Sun:

Police in Puerto Rico have a copy of a video from the interior of the ship showing the fatal fall - and offered to show it to Chloe's parents but the couple were too distraught to view the distressing footage.

Instead they asked for a copy - but cops refused.

'CRITICAL EVIDENCE'
"One of the hold ups in our investigation is that Royal Caribbean have not provided us with CCTV footage of the incident which is the most critical piece of evidence," Winkleman explained.

"At this point they've outright refused to produce the video.

"We definitively know there is footage of the incident from the interior of the ship because the police in Puerto Rico wanted to show it to the family but not surprisingly the mom and dad were not willing or ready to watch it at that point.

"They asked for a copy of it but the police would not give it to them.
Cruise tot's family furious after firm 'refuses' to hand over CCTV of death fall

 

[Kindred]

Can anyone please explain why it took the company so long to present the video? My only guess is to wear out those sueing them. Like, make Winkleman spend it all and defeat himself while they have all the proofs to show in the end.

To start with during law enforcement investigations it's standard for police/prosecuters to not allow the release of such things as surveillance videos and such because of possible interference it might cause to their investigation. It's only in cases where they might need help identifying subjs that they would release it before that and only small portions/stills.

Per the plaintiffs "emergency motion" once they were cleared by the investigators RCCL offered several times for the family and their reps to view the video, but Winkleman refused insisting they only wanted a copy of their own. The cruise line were absolutely under no legal obligation to turn over any physical copies of the video over to their lawyers to keep until 1) a lawsuit was filed and 2) they had gotten to the discovery portion of the case.

I don't blame them at all considering we know for a fact once he had one from the defense attorney the first thing he did was go running around showing it to media personell and then magically it got "leaked".

 

[In vino veritas]

They said he was 5 foot 11 inches tall. The railing is 4 feet high. That allows a little less than 2 feet of the body to go over the railing. The arms could reach farther, but again, his elbows are on the railing.

IMO, yes, he is leaning on his elbows, but he is not leaning way over and out. His back and backside are behind the railing. MOST of him is behind the railing. IMO you could not have your elbows resting on the railing and lean all the way out. You could only lean out as far as the railing would let you go. No more than the upper chest area.

I was under the impression the railings were 42” high. If SA, in fact is 5’11”, that means he’s 71” tall. That means he’s 29” taller than the railing. Assuming the railing is actually 18” away from the window, it seems logical that he would be able to breach the window frame given the position of his body in the La Comay video... even allowing for spine curvature and a belly.