IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #6

[al66pine]

What Awning?
Imo 'awning' could have been
(1 ) yellowish-tannish (coverings over?) lifeboats on side of the ship, like pic below. Or
(2) a tan canopy on dock, in a pic I saw one time and cannot locate now. It was an L-shaped structure: the looong part was parallel to ship, w a short leg which looked like it would be the gangway for boarding. Overall looked like it was to shade a line of passengers waiting to embark. Or.
(3) awning on dock but not like (2) and not the square blue canopy later covering Chloe.

^ pic from SouthAussie post 216 @SouthAussie Thanks!

 

[oviedo]

lawsuit -
ETA - filed in southern district

 

[oviedo]

Cruise ship writer slammed for saying death of Indiana toddler who plunged from vessel's window shouldn't ruin cruise experience: "I think you have a cheek writing such a story"
snipped
...Chua took issue with the family's account that it was the cruise line's responsibility to close the window.

"As many cruisers would know, cruise lines do leave the windows on the upper deck open for fresh air. These windows, which are above hip height, are tinted to show whether a window is closed or open.

"Do we really want to ruin the cruise experience by locking every door and window from the fresh sea air just in case?" Chua added.

Her editorial generated a strong response from readers below the line.

Paul Kemp wrote that cruise line did have a responsibility that all areas were safe, adding: "why you would have windows that open in a recreation area that is 11 stories high; its inexcusable,"

“We’ll never forget her. She’s part of our soul that’s not there anymore.” -Alan Wiegand, father of 18-month-old Chloe, who died after falling from a cruise ship pic.twitter.com/oSEMFbIk3A

— TODAY (@TODAYshow) July 22, 2019
Related Stories

• Cruise Company to Blame for Death of Toddler Who Fell From Window: Family
• Death of Cruise Ship Toddler Who Fell out Window 'Could Be Murder': Police
• Tragic Cruise Baby Family Says Company Isn't Handing Over 'Critical' Video

"I think your article is thoughtless," he wrote.

Meanwhile, Pamela McInnarney wrote that it was "disrespectful and also premature for you to write such a pathetic article and even worse for others to start pointing fingers."

"I think you have a cheek writing such a story" she added.

However, several did support Chua's position, with one reader, named as Leonard Smith, commenting that "there is no excuse for lifting a small child to the railing when she could see just fine at floor level and there is no excuse for not knowing the window was open."

Grant Wall wrote: "It is a tragic situation, BUT the family are solely responsible for their children. STOP trying to blame someone else for your stupid behavior and decisions."

In a statement earlier this week, a Royal Caribbean spokeswoman said: "We are assisting local authorities in San Juan, as they make inquiries after an incident aboard Freedom of the Seas. We do not have further information to share at this point."

 

[al66pine]

What Awning?
Imo 'awning' could have been
(1 ) yellowish-tannish (coverings over?) lifeboats on side of the ship, like pic below. Or
(2) a tan canopy on dock, in a pic I saw one time and cannot locate now. It was an L-shaped structure: the looong part was parallel to ship, w a short leg which looked like it would be the gangway for boarding. Overall looked like it was to shade a line of passengers waiting to embark. Or.
(3) awning on dock but not like (2) and not the square blue canopy later covering Chloe.

^ pic from South Aussie post 216 @SouthAussie Thanks!

 

[al66pine]

Hmmm I can’t find that the lawsuit was actually filed yet and now going back and reading the articles they say “due to be filed” this was on Dec 11 - what’s going on ? I’m still researching but it should be online by now IMO

@oviedo pdf of top of page 1 of Complaint shows:
Case 1:19-cv-25100-XXXX Document 1 Entered on FLSD Docket 12/11/2019 Page 1 of 21
Filed in US DISTRICT COURT SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA MIAMI DIVISION

I have not looked on court database/website, but law firm website has pdf/image of the Complaint itself.
First go to lipcon.com
Select tab "SUCCESS STORIES"
In dropdown box, select "WORK IN PROGRESS"
If you get box w prompt to open the file, then hit open.
If not, scroll down to chrono list, and
click on Dec. 11, 2019, Complaint, Wiegand v Royal Caribbean.

 

[oviedo]

@oviedo pdf of top of page 1 of Complaint shows:
Case 1:19-cv-25100-XXXX Document 1 Entered on FLSD Docket 12/11/2019 Page 1 of 21
Filed in US DISTRICT COURT SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA MIAMI DIVISION

I have not looked on court database/website, but law firm website has pdf/image of the Complaint itself.
First go to lipcon.com
Select tab "SUCCESS STORIES"
In dropdown box, select "WORK IN PROGRESS"
If you get box w prompt to open the file, then hit open.
If not, scroll down to chrono list, and
click on Dec. 11, 2019, Complaint, Wiegand v Royal Caribbean.

Oh southern District of federal court - thanks

 

[al66pine]

dbm.

 

[al66pine]

2005 Man Overboard on Honeymoon

.... I recall the honeymooner who died on a RCCL ship

Honeymoon widow Hagel Smith whose husband died on cruise 10 years ago's new life | Daily Mail Online.

@oviedo sbm I vaguely remember this ^ in the news yrs ago.
What a story. 2015 article, 2005 wedding.

Honeymoon cruise highlights (not all the same day)
Drink, drink, drink. check.
Husband sleeps/spends the night somewhere other than in own cabin w wife. check.
Wife kicks husband in genitals. check.
Wife falls asleep in hallway floor. check.
Husband ??? check???
Husband falls overboard. check.
Body never recovered. No crim chgs.
Looked like a storybook couple. No 'happily-ever-after.'

 

[MsMarple]

Cruise ship writer slammed for saying death of Indiana toddler who plunged from vessel's window shouldn't ruin cruise experience: "I think you have a cheek writing such a story"
snipped
...Chua took issue with the family's account that it was the cruise line's responsibility to close the window.

"As many cruisers would know, cruise lines do leave the windows on the upper deck open for fresh air. These windows, which are above hip height, are tinted to show whether a window is closed or open.

"Do we really want to ruin the cruise experience by locking every door and window from the fresh sea air just in case?" Chua added.

Her editorial generated a strong response from readers below the line.

Paul Kemp wrote that cruise line did have a responsibility that all areas were safe, adding: "why you would have windows that open in a recreation area that is 11 stories high; its inexcusable,"

“We’ll never forget her. She’s part of our soul that’s not there anymore.” -Alan Wiegand, father of 18-month-old Chloe, who died after falling from a cruise ship pic.twitter.com/oSEMFbIk3A

— TODAY (@TODAYshow) July 22, 2019
Related Stories

• Cruise Company to Blame for Death of Toddler Who Fell From Window: Family
• Death of Cruise Ship Toddler Who Fell out Window 'Could Be Murder': Police
• Tragic Cruise Baby Family Says Company Isn't Handing Over 'Critical' Video

"I think your article is thoughtless," he wrote.

Meanwhile, Pamela McInnarney wrote that it was "disrespectful and also premature for you to write such a pathetic article and even worse for others to start pointing fingers."

"I think you have a cheek writing such a story" she added.

However, several did support Chua's position, with one reader, named as Leonard Smith, commenting that "there is no excuse for lifting a small child to the railing when she could see just fine at floor level and there is no excuse for not knowing the window was open."

Grant Wall wrote: "It is a tragic situation, BUT the family are solely responsible for their children. STOP trying to blame someone else for your stupid behavior and decisions."

In a statement earlier this week, a Royal Caribbean spokeswoman said: "We are assisting local authorities in San Juan, as they make inquiries after an incident aboard Freedom of the Seas. We do not have further information to share at this point."

I remember that article and the one it criticized. I thought the original had merit and remember thinking that it could be argued that more people have fallen off the ship from balconies than open windows on the pool deck.

Now, 6 months later I'd add the question: What would we all think if someone's loved one fell overboard from a balcony and the person helping them up onto the balcony railing claimed they thought there were ledges under balconies to catch them? Should balcony railings have signs? Silly, huh?

Does anyone know the time frame RCCL has for answering the civil suit?

 

[al66pine]

More Pix of Frdm/Seas. Deck Plan. cruisedeckplans.com

The article I posted said she hit an awning - I will look for images of FOTS docked in a pier but the problem is the ships dock differently depending on where they are from what I understand - will research further and see if other early articles reference a strike on the awning (sorry that’s so awful)

@oviedo FWIW
Freedom of the Seas Pictures Fr/Seas some exterior pix.
Freedom of the Seas Deck 11 Deck Plan Tour The deck plan for Deck 11.
Freedom of the Seas Pictures Pix of Public Areas on deck: Deck 11
H2O Zone (21 pictures in photo gallery.)
Squeeze (3 pictures in photo gallery.)
Ea. ^ deck plan has little camera icons scattered around, so we can click on icon to see pic of that area.

 

[al66pine]

....Does anyone know the time frame RCCL has for answering the civil suit?

@MsMarple sbm
Gen'ly w'in 21 days of being served, per below. Does not start w date Complaint is filed.
Seems Defendant RCCL should have filed Answer by now.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Federal Rules of Civil Procedure
Rule 12. Defenses and Objections: When and How Presented; ....
(a) Time to Serve a Responsive Pleading.
(1) In General. Unless another time is specified by this rule or a federal statute, the time for serving a responsive pleading is as follows:
(A) A defendant must serve an answer:
(i) within 21 days after being served with the summons and complaint; or ...."
^ Federal Rules of Civil Procedure (eff. Dec 1, 2018) bbm sbm
"Rule 6. Computing and Extending Time...
(a) Computing Time. The following rules apply in computing any time period specified in these rules, in any local rule or court order, or in any statute that does not specify a method of computing time.
(1) Period Stated in Days or a Longer Unit. When the period is stated in days or a longer unit of time:
(A) exclude the day of the event that triggers the period;
(B) count every day, including intermediate Saturdays, Sundays, and legal holidays; and
(C) include the last day of the period, but if the last day is a Saturday, Sunday, or legal holiday, the period continues to run until the end of the next day that is not a Saturday, Sunday, or legal holiday. " bbm sbm

 

[Forever Young]

I had not seen this particular episode of La Comay, dated December 18, 2019. The hosts use a model of the railing and window and a doll for demonstration. Demonstration begins slightly before the 45 minute mark.

 

[neesaki]

2005 Man Overboard on Honeymoon
@oviedo sbm I vaguely remember this ^ in the news yrs ago.
What a story. 2015 article, 2005 wedding.

Honeymoon cruise highlights (not all the same day)
Drink, drink, drink. check.
Husband sleeps/spends the night somewhere other than in own cabin w wife. check.
Wife kicks husband in genitals. check.
Wife falls asleep in hallway floor. check.
Husband ??? check???
Husband falls overboard. check.
Body never recovered. No crim chgs.
Looked like a storybook couple. No 'happily-ever-after.'

That was a horribly tragic yet somewhat strange case wasn't it? Talk about a honeymoon from hell, I mean good Lord..... SMH

 

[mickey2942]

I had not seen this particular episode of La Comay, dated December 18, 2019. The hosts use a model of the railing and window and a doll for demonstration. Demonstration begins slightly before the 45 minute mark.

OMG! I loved how the man in the demo went back to sit down with La Comay, and keep the baby doll tucked right next to him, like the doll was a real baby!

Can you imagine if the do a realistic demonstration like that in court? And even take a trip to a ship, to see how high up they are?

If SA goes to trial in Puerto Rico, he is going to get a "Go directly to jail, do not pass "Go", do not collect $200"!"

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

OMG! I loved how the man in the demo went back to sit down with La Comay, and keep the baby doll tucked right next to him, like the doll was a real baby!

Can you imagine if the do a realistic demonstration like that in court? And even take a trip to a ship, to see how high up they are?

If SA goes to trial in Puerto Rico, he is going to get a "Go directly to jail, do not pass "Go", do not collect $200"!"

And we haven't even seen other videos or heard from the eyewitnesses yet! SA is pretty much toast, and hopefully the scammy grifty lie infested lawsuit will be as well!!

 

[katydid23]

I wouldn’t be able to watch the video either if I was Chloe’s mom. It’s horrible enough as a stranger.

I wouldn't be able to watch it either. But I would ask a very trusted colleague to look at it and explain the legal issues to me, IF I was bringing a very public lawsuit and going on press interviews for that lawsuit.

 

[katydid23]

DBM

Yes, you got that right, my post implied SA might not work on looking at computer screens at his company. Additionally, the lined bifocals may have affected his vision at the window. I think the issue with the lined bifocals and computer work is the distance between the eyes and the computer, progressive lenses are recommended instead.
If his colorblindness is so severe he couldn't tell the window was open, why isn't he wearing corrective glasses made for that condition?

If he knew he was severely colourblind and couldn't tell the difference between an open and closed window, then WHY would he pick her up and put her past the safety rail, and into the window ledge, without checking to see if there was indeed glass?

Why would he keep saying he thought there was glass? If he was severely colourblind, why would he have assumed there was glass if he hadn't touched it?

 

[Pammi]

If he knew he was severely colourblind and couldn't tell the difference between an open and closed window, then WHY would he pick her up and put her past the safety rail, and into the window ledge, without checking to see if there was indeed glass?

Why would he keep saying he thought there was glass? If he was severely colourblind, why would he have assumed there was glass if he hadn't touched it?

He “didn’t know” he had colorblindness until after the accident. So it’s just an excuse to fit their other excuses.... moo

 

[katydid23]

He “didn’t know” he had colorblindness until after the accident. So it’s just an excuse to fit their other excuses.... moo

That's bull. He never knew before then that he had issues with colorblindness? Was he ever in the service?

If he truly couldn't tell the difference between an open window and the green tinted glass window, then he wouklkd have known before this that he had issues with seeing color.

 

[Forever Young]

I wouldn't be able to watch it either. But I would ask a very trusted colleague to look at it and explain the legal issues to me, IF I was bringing a very public lawsuit and going on press interviews for that lawsuit.

Isn't that what the lawyer is for?

I've calmed down some, since the initial shock of seeing the videos.

I think I'm coming to the conclusion that the Wiegands had no choice but to proceed as they have. They both have experience with how the law works and are letting "due process" take its course.

This way they can let an outside authority legally make a decision just who was at fault here, and somewhat separate themselves from family drama.