IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #6

[al66pine]

.... Sometimes I get off in my own little world in my discussions and fail to answer the question originally posed to me....

@Lawsmygame2 sbm No prob. I do that too occasionally. Ditto a few other posters.

 

[JulieBEMT]

Yes, agree. However, if RCCL did change the windows after this incident, that information could be introduce for reasons other than to prove negligence, etc. So, while the court is professional minded/trained and would not consider this information to suppose/prove negligence, etc., jurors (even when properly instructed otherwise) could still likely consider it (not legally) as RCCL “admitting” the window design was flawed/needed to be changed and this may sway the verdict in favor of the plaintiff. JMO

Royal Caribbean has been undergoing a process of "Amping up" it's ships, and Freedom has been scheduled to undergo this transformation for some time. They plan them years in advance, and she's scheduled to go in this year. I'm attaching the RCCL Fleet Guide. It shows which ships have been, or will be redone. I don't remember them changing anything about the windows on the "Amped" ships I've been on so far. But then, I wasn't looking. I will be on Adventure of the Seas next month. She's a little smaller than Freedom, but has the same basic design. I'll try to remember to take pictures.

 

[they'll get you]

I was just repeating what was stated in the documents.
I went back to check and the newer ship that was used as an example was called "Anthem of the Sea."
There is a picture of it in the document but I have not seen the YouTube video.

Imo

This is what I know.
There is the different classes.

Voyager was built on September 1977 and was classed as the first of the mega ships.
Freedom was built on 4 June 2006
The Freedom class is very similar design but larger than the Voyager class. Both have these opening windows.

We’ll be going on the Ovation late Feb, it was built in 2016 so it’s a lot newer and a lot bigger.

iirc the Ovation does not have opening windows but I’m sure the window design was not changed because of danger.

I’ll take photos of the pool windows for comparison.

 

[they'll get you]

Thanx wwb - I wonder if he was clowning around or another suicide?

BREAKING: Divers just recovered the body of a white male who fell from the 10th story deck of @RoyalCarribean's Oasis of the Seas' which is docked in San Juan, Puerto Rico, right now. The ship is hosting an Atlantis cruise which caters to the LGBTQ+ community.

I wonder if the cameras caught him falling/jumping.
If it was daytime I’d like the see the camera clarity.

 

[MsJosie]

I keep thinking we will hear he has a mental issue....I so feel for the family.

 

[they'll get you]

Admitting Evd of Subsequent Remedial Measures. Exceptions? Jury Deliberation?
@Lawsmygame2 Thanks for your response. Even when jury is properly instructed, as you said before, jury can misuse/misinterp. Mos' def', agreeing w you.

At times your shorthand is hard to understand, but I love your thoughtful posts al66pine.

 

[they'll get you]

Timeline. How Long Did SA Supervise Chloe?
@drama_farmer sbm for focus Yes, good question. I'd like to know too. And your list of ideas for possible attractions at window is excellent. Ditto possible SA & Chloe 'communications.'
Times per Complaint*
2:40 Mom & Chloe in pool
3:50 Mom (to RCL ofc?)
3:50 SA came to H20 Zone
___ ? Time gap? btwn end of SA-crouching-at-pillar vid, and start of their walking-to-window clip?
4:00 <---shortly after, Chloe walked to wall of glass, SA followed.
_:__?-- Complaint para 20, she slipped from SA's arms, but no time is given. Why not?
4:27 **<-- MSM dated July 9 "incident happened"

ASSuming, no time gap btwn end of SA-couching vid clip, and start of their walking-to-window clip, then if Complaint allegation times are accurate, SA supervised ~10 min.
BUT
ASSuming no time gap, & if July 9 MSM's 4:27 incident time is accurate, SA supervised ~ 40 min.

------------------------------------------------------------
*Complaint allegations, starting on page 3:
"Subject Incident
11. On or about July 7, 2019, at approximately 1:15 p.m., the family boarded the vessel in San Juan, Puerto Rico for a 7-night Southern Caribbean cruise. Upon boarding, the family went to the Windjammer Café for lunch. After lunch, Mrs. Schultz-Wiegand and Chloe changed into swimsuits, and at approximately 2:40 p.m., they began to play in the pool(s) aboard the ship.
12. At or around 3:50 p.m., Mrs. Schultz Wiegand needed to go help with an issue related to the cruise, and as such, Mr. Anello came up to the H2O Zone on Deck 11 of the vessel to supervise Chloe, his 18-month-old granddaughter, as shown below:
[ pic of Chloe]
13. The H2O Zone is advertised by Defendant to be a “kids’… water park[.]”
14. At all times material, Mr. Anello was closely supervising Chloe as she played in the kids’ water park. Shortly after 4 p.m., Chloe walked over to a nearby wall of glass on the same deck (Deck 11), and she was followed closely by Mr. Anello.'
** "The incident happened at 4:27; ship departed at 10.24pm." Grandad 'had to be sedated' after dropping toddler 150ft to her death on cruise ship. pub July 9.

Mum was with Chloe at the pool for approx. an hour and it took SA only 10 minutes to allow Chloe to walk away from that location.

He’s a real winner for sure.

 

[they'll get you]

Royal Caribbean has been undergoing a process of "Amping up" it's ships, and Freedom has been scheduled to undergo this transformation for some time. They plan them years in advance, and she's scheduled to go in this year. I'm attaching the RCCL Fleet Guide. It shows which ships have been, or will be redone. I don't remember them changing anything about the windows on the "Amped" ships I've been on so far. But then, I wasn't looking. I will be on Adventure of the Seas next month. She's a little smaller than Freedom, but has the same basic design. I'll try to remember to take pictures.

That was interesting and thanx for that JulieBEMT
The Voyager was ‘apmed’ in 2019 and the windows remained the same.

 

[Lawnguylander1964]

Royal Caribbean has been undergoing a process of "Amping up" it's ships, and Freedom has been scheduled to undergo this transformation for some time. They plan them years in advance, and she's scheduled to go in this year. I'm attaching the RCCL Fleet Guide. It shows which ships have been, or will be redone. I don't remember them changing anything about the windows on the "Amped" ships I've been on so far. But then, I wasn't looking. I will be on Adventure of the Seas next month. She's a little smaller than Freedom, but has the same basic design. I'll try to remember to take pictures.

The business and travel articles only talk about the cost and the "fun stuff" mostly for kids. They don't really talk about non-flashly stuff in these articles because the general public probably doesn't care that they are recaulking shower stalls and stuff.

We've discussed previously that Winkleman is fibbing about the scheduled refresh of Freedom of the Seas. The press release is dated March 14, 2018 and states the first ship was Independence, followed by Freedom and then Liberty. So they publicly announced this over a year before the accident.

 

[loveandhugs]

I saw the video of him sqatting and leaning against the pole but the video is so blurry it's hard to see anything. Is he actually talking and interacting with her?
To me it looks like he just stopped and leaned against the pole to rest for a few minutes.

I thought when I saw the video that was when SA was thinking about what he was about to do to Chloe. JMO

 

[wackyw]

I keep thinking we will hear he has a mental issue....I so feel for the family.

Very possibly, or just a medical issue like some sort of brief blackouts, fainting, or other. But whilst these might be of use for SA's PR criminal defence they are not what is wanted by the parents/MW's cruise line negligence lawsuit. Going to be very interesting family dynamic this one, being pressurized by two different legal aims. I wonder if they are now stuck with the preposterous "I can't tell the difference between open and closed windows" story now, or if SA will break rank and see if he can resuscitate his probation deal?

IMOO

PS - I know absolutely nothing about the Law! Feel free to correct if the above is a load of rubbish!!

 

[Lawnguylander1964]

Based on the CBS interview, I believe SA will say and do anything asked of him at this point. I don't believe he is involved in his own defense. It think others are making decisions for him and telling him what to say or do.

 

[wackyw]

Based on the CBS interview, I believe SA will say and do anything asked of him at this point. I don't believe he is involved in his own defense. It think others are making decisions for him and telling him what to say or do.

BBM

I agree with you, ....... at this point But down the line when faced with possible jail time, and maybe in PR, and if any negligence conviction for him definitely blows apart the MW lawsuit, then why keep up the pretence? I can see this getting ugly.

PS - and I wonder if family unity has already been weakened by the video. Not that we know if/when the parents have seen it.

 

[Lawnguylander1964]

BBM

I agree with you, ....... at this point But down the line when faced with possible jail time, and maybe in PR, and if any negligence conviction for him definitely blows apart the MW lawsuit, then why keep up the pretence? I can see this getting ugly.

PS - and I wonder if family unity has already been weakened by the video. Not that we know if/when the parents have seen it.

I agree. If there is a conviction with jail time, I would hope they would play any card possible to keep him out of jail. Including making a case for medical/mental, even if they trot out friends and family to relate stories about him during the sentencing phase.

 

[In vino veritas]

If, in fact, the initial reports at the time of the incident are correct, SA DID state to PR LE that he dropped Chloe while they were looking out the window.

Once MW entered the picture, all the stories changed. SA is now so mired in the fabrications he’s been told to say, I think it will be impossible to turn back. Even in the CBS interview with DB, SA claims that he was TOLD color-blindness may have been a factor.
IMO, it appears MW and the family are orchestrating the dialogue to support a significant monetary payout. IMO they KNOW SA is negligent , but they are willing to sacrifice his freedom for financial gain..... and that is their retribution for SA’s gross negligence.

 

[wackyw]

If, in fact, the initial reports at the time of the incident are correct, SA DID state to PR LE that he dropped Chloe while they were looking out the window.

Once MW entered the picture, all the stories changed. SA is now so mired in the fabrications he’s been told to say, I think it will be impossible to turn back. Even in the CBS interview with DB, SA claims that he was TOLD color-blindness may have been a factor.
IMO, it appears MW and the family are orchestrating the dialogue to support a significant monetary payout. IMO they KNOW SA is negligent , but they are willing to sacrifice his freedom for financial gain..... and that is their retribution for SA’s gross negligence.

BBM - but if SA is convicted of negligence where does this leave the parents claim for negligence against RCCL? It would be a huge setback for them wouldn't it? They're in it together until SA breaks ranks.

 

[In vino veritas]

BBM - but if SA is convicted of negligence where does this leave the parents claim for negligence against RCCL? It would be a huge setback for them wouldn't it? They're in it together until SA breaks ranks.

Agreed!!

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

Based on the CBS interview, I believe SA will say and do anything asked of him at this point. I don't believe he is involved in his own defense. It think others are making decisions for him and telling him what to say or do.

Classic patsy.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

Thank you for your reply. So if it's in the lawsuit, then again it's Mr Winkleman asserting that, just as he did at the news conference which I quoted. I'm looking for information from an objective third party source to confirm that. Just can't find any online yet, but it's possible that a video will turn up, as one did for deck 11 of the FOTS.

Best objective third party source is a a WS cruiser.

 

[Yellowbeak]

Best objective third party source is a a WS cruiser.

Just for sleuthing purposes... before I go on a ship I go to youtube and watch vlogs of cruisers doing ship tours. Some are very detailed and go on every deck. Just some info to check out different ships in the fleet.