IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #6

[katydid23]

Another bit of irony. The final picture on page 13 happened to include an open window in the shot. Could it be any more obvious that the window was open? My arrow.

View attachment 227685
Wiegand Prelim Response to Dismiss 3.pdf

Look at that open window. Can you imagine STANDING AN 18 MONTH OLD CHILD up in that open window ledge???????????

Who does that? How could a grown man not understand how dangerous that was for the baby?

I just don't get what this man was thinking.

Only Fifteen minutes he had that child before she died a brutal death?

 

[katydid23]

What kind of BS is Daily Mail trying to pull? Are they in bed with the Wiegands and their corrupt attorney?

Latest article says the following..."They say there was not a single sign, decal or safety notice alerting Anello that the window he was lifting Chloe up against so she could bang on the glass as she loved to do at her older brother's ice hockey games, could be slid open: a breach of industry-wide safety laws."

...Fake News....

 

[MassGuy]

Look at that open window. Can you imagine STANDING AN 18 MONTH OLD CHILD up in that open window ledge???????????

Who does that? How could a grown man not understand how dangerous that was for the baby?

I just don't get what this man was thinking.

Only Fifteen minutes he had that child before she died a brutal death?

Give this guy 30 minutes, and I’m sure he would have found a way to drop her twice.

 

[al66pine]

dbm

 

[MassGuy]

...Fake News....

The whole thing is so damn sensationalistic. They know it’s going to generate clicks, as it’s such a tragic story. Hence the “Angelic Chloe,” reference.

Who the hell writes like that?

 

[al66pine]

Yeah he wants footage from the 2 speakers ...lol.

. @BeachSky Thanks, I missed this.

Vid footage from those speakers tends to be kinda grainy. . Doubtful it will show much. j/k

 

[justice4allnow]

DBM

 

[Snoods]

He is stupid, he is still stupid, he always will be stupid, he will die stupid and he’s too stupid to know he is stupid.

But is he stupid? Hee.

I wonder who got paid by the Daily Mail ...
( IMO not the doctor or the cruise line....hm)

Even though the article is deeply slanted in favor of SA (ex. elderly and color blind) the comments are still vastly in support of the cruise line.

Doctor on cruise ship recalls finding toddler's body after her grandfather 'dropped her | Daily Mail Online

 

[justice4allnow]

...Fake News....

Pay-For-Play

 

[al66pine]

The whole thing is so damn sensationalistic. They know it’s going to generate clicks, as it’s such a tragic story. Hence the “Angelic Chloe,” reference.Who the hell writes like that?

Remember, the toddler who loved to bang on glass was also described* as a "fashionista," a "foodie," and "could work a cell phone better than both of her parents."


View Chloe Wiegand's Obituary on kpcnews.com and share memories

 

[Andreee]

There was, allegedly, someone who actually told SA not to do what he was doing -

I remember that from the original thread!

All I know is that I would have said something to him! As I'm sure most here would too.

That's a great point.

And how would she be able to bang on the glass in that position too!

 

[MassGuy]

But is he stupid? Hee.



Even though the article is deeply slanted in favor of SA (elderly and color blind) the comments are still vastly in support of the cruise line.

That’s because the people writing the comments are just like us (they have common sense).

Are you ever supposed to sit a child on a railing? No.

Are you ever supposed to stand a child on a railing? Hell no.

Are you ever supposed to do what this guy did? Look no further than the result.

If Royal Caribbean pays this family a cent, then common sense is dead.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

Jumping ahead here and thank you so much @Kindred for posting the docs!

I don't know why Winkleman is including these pics and description of SA holding Chloe to the glass at a hockey game. The only purpose it serves IMO is that Chloe looked through or possibly banged on the glass at her brother's hockey games. Does that somehow explain or excuse SA's actions on the ship? IMO if that's the sum total reason of why SA put Chloe on that rail then good luck. It does nothing to explain why he didn't let Chloe bang on the lower glass nor does it explain why he chose to sit her on the railing which was not intended for sitting on.

So... the family's argument is that SA wanted Chloe to bang on the ship's window, that he didn't know it was open because he's colorblind and too far away to see the open window because of that gosh darn railing in the way? And RCCL failed to put a decal on the open window (i.e. "air") to warn him? Well knock me over with a feather.

And ETA: The doctor received a report of the accident at 4:04. SA took charge of Chloe at 3:50 according to the complaint. So less than 15 minutes in SA's care and Chloe was dead. Sickening.

Here's the reason Winkleman didn’t put time into his complaint. Got it. Damning piece of information.

 

[Kindred]

The lawyer is there to zealously represent their client. And the lawyer is an officer of the court with certain responsibilities to it. Add to it that this case is being fought in the court of public opinion as well as at the federal courthouse. I wouldn't expect action against MW by the court soon.

I was more struck by the emails between the lawyers. The reason MW's firm filed the motion when the defense was quite willing to turn over the video was that MW firm would not agree to them being turned over "to the extent they exist". Unless there's something being said beyond the plain meaning of the language, that's a pretty thin reason to waste the court's time with a motion.

There is a zealous representation, and then there's being a drama queen. That prelim response from Winkleman doesn't sound like a confident lawyer who is sure of his filings and the strength of his case. That sounds like a desperate man who's watching his suit tank right before his very eyes. "They're lying and saying mean things about a man I'm not even representing!" makes him sound childish, especially with the restraint shown by RCCL by, in fact, NOT saying mean things about SA publicly and in response to all the press conferences and TV show appearances.

Also can I say that I absolutely LOVE the fact that the signature of the lawyer responding to RCCL counsel in the emails includes that stupid "BEST LAWYER OF THE YEAR" icon from the website? It makes me wonder if they have it stamped on coffee mugs and hanging on banners all over their office. That's such a nice touch. Kind of a "Oh? Hey you're a lawyer too. BUT, are you THE BEST LAWYER OF THE YEAR?? Yeah, I thought not. Don't forget who you're talking to, kay?" vibe to it.

 

[Kindred]

Jumping ahead here and thank you so much @Kindred for posting the docs!

I don't know why Winkleman is including these pics and description of SA holding Chloe to the glass at a hockey game. The only purpose it serves IMO is that Chloe looked through or possibly banged on the glass at her brother's hockey games. Does that somehow explain or excuse SA's actions on the ship? IMO if that's the sum total reason of why SA put Chloe on that rail then good luck. It does nothing to explain why he didn't let Chloe bang on the lower glass nor does it explain why he chose to sit her on the railing which was not intended for sitting on.

snipped and BBM

He's going for 'the feels', just like why they keep posting all the sweet pics to the media. It's to silently tug at the heart strings like: "Look judge. Look how cute she was. How absolutely adorable she was... UNTIL SHE STEPPED ON THAT FLOATING DEATH TRAP OWNED BY THE DEFENDANTS!! Deny the motion to dismiss, judge, do it for her. Who cares how it happens, don't you think they deserve kajillions of dollars because they lost someone so sweet?"

 

[MassGuy]

Someone commented on the Daily Mail article, something to the effect of “this is the type of guy who drops a child into a gorilla pen at the zoo.”

I couldn’t agree more.

 

[al66pine]

'Prison Bars Window.' Pix? Function?
Plaintiff's ship Inspection Report*, section on Window Measurements, starting on p 44, has 10 pix of the 'prison bars window' measurements. That window on bottom row is ~ ankle high to mid-thigh and is approx half the width of the other bottom-row windows. Based on other pix, imo, this P/B window is not the one SA stood in front of, when he dropped Chloe, because it is too far to the right.
10 pix. Why so many pix? Red herring? If somehow relevant, how?

Function.
Someone said: P/B window is a scupper, a place where crew can sweep out water after a heavy rain. But if bottom ledge of it is ~ 6" high, how could > 6" of water accumulate on that deck? Someone else said - so crew can open & exit for window washing & maintenance. Not intending to doubt these two explanations for the P/B window function, but not entirely sold on either.
Hmm, I see no padlock or other lock mechanism; the bar structure 'door frame' /window frame looks like it's screwed fast. 4 hinges at the bottom, let the outer glass window or door, open out and down, like the door on a curbside mailbox. Other ideas?

* Wiegand Prelim Response to Dismiss 3.pdf

And again, TYVM, @Kindred, for downloading the doc's, and linking us.

 

[wackyw]

Another bit of irony. The final picture on page 13 happened to include an open window in the shot. Could it be any more obvious that the window was open? My arrow.

View attachment 227685
Wiegand Prelim Response to Dismiss 3.pdf

re BBM
Yes it could actually! When you are in dock and the scene outside includes many contrasting colours, including very light ones such as sunlit concrete! As opposed to just the blue of the water in the picture, same colour but different shade.

 

[they'll get you]

Remember, the toddler who loved to bang on glass was also described* as a "fashionista," a "foodie," and "could work a cell phone better than both of her parents."


View Chloe Wiegand's Obituary on kpcnews.com and share memories

Reasons she should be alive today.

 

[wwb]

View attachment 227658

The puple line is mine but otherwise untouched.

This photo keeps bothering me. There's something... odd about the tape measure. Most of the numbers are illegible for me but the ones below his fingers are still dark and defined enough that you can make out enough to work out measurements. But once you get above his fingers the tape seems to squish and distort. Is he physically bending the tape back to make it look like they're the same height from the front??? Why does it suddenly seem to get narrow?

I think they're trying to fudge how tall tape-measure-guy is compared to the SA actor. SA is standing in the foreground, TMG is slightly behind him. The tape is being bent. Probably so they can defend the fact that TMG is clearly able to reach the window in one of the pics they submitted.

Also, check out the pics of the actor "standing" on the rail. The two pics are slightly different and you can only see the front shoe. The numbers seem weird there, too.