IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #6

[justice4allnow]

Apparently he could have seen through the bottom window so maybe he first looked down and when he didn't see her inside the ship he looked out the window that was closer to the floor.
It's confusing to me too but from others descriptions from the way the bottom windows are angled one can see down the side of the ship but I'm not sure.
Either that, or he looked down for about two seconds and then looked out the window she fell from and only saw the last few seconds of the fall.

Imo

I think that I read an estimate of 3 seconds total for her fall.

 

[HRH Phoebe Cat]

Welcome! And regarding the brother, I have not as yet seen anything about him at all. Can you enlighten me as to where he was at the time of the tragedy and why you would depose him? Thank-you.

For more insight into the family dynamics.
When he was younger, did SA play toss the baby in the air games with him?
How often did poor Chloe bang on the hockey glass? Please correct me if I am wrong, but I do not recall any video of Chloe doing this...just the one photo standing with her hands on the glass.
Did SA ever do anything to make him feel unsafe or concerned for Chloe’s safety?

Severe grief affects people differently, but the parents’ behavior, to me anyway, just appear to be so untypical.

Apologies for bringing up the sensitive topic of possible pre-existing medical conditions, but, once again, it gets back to family dynamics.

And for a 51 year old male to be referring to 18 month old Chloe as his “best friend” I find...odd.

These are just my thoughts and opinions.

 

[MsBetsy]

I think that I read an estimate of 3 seconds total for her fall.

Oh, I thought I read more like 10 seconds.
I think he probably saw her fall looking through the bottom window, though.
Does he look out the window after she falls in the video? I thought it showed him on the floor but it's hard to see because the video is so grainy.

 

[justice4allnow]

Welcome! And regarding the brother, I have not as yet seen anything about him at all. Can you enlighten me as to where he was at the time of the tragedy and why you would depose him? Thank-you.

As to where the brother was, I read a story that said Alan and Wyatt were swimming together in a pool in another location, while mom and Chloe played on the splash pad. Unsure, maybe it was only a floor away, maybe less. Close enough that Wyatt was there quickly.

 

[Lawsmygame2]

I think that I read an estimate of 3 seconds total for her fall.

Wow. So thankful she didn’t have time to realize what was happening or to be scared. Just thinking she did has haunted me. Thanks for the info.

 

[Cool Cats]

That looks like the inside of the railing is 13 inches to the window. Maybe the railing is 5 inches wide.

Imo

Why did the article say 19" ? Humm.

Clearly this is apx. 15 1\2 inches from outer edge of window to outer edge of railing. 3 1\2 inches off what is in the article.

Railing only apx. 2 inches wide.

 

[weepingangel]

That looks like the inside of the railing is 13 inches to the window. Maybe the railing is 5 inches wide.

Imo

maybe the 19inches is their measurement from inside of wooden rail to outside of windows sill (is the railing 6 inches?)
But I realized I have a set up in the house - a half wall 42-43 inches high with a 9inch wide wood plank on top. I am able to Veery easily reach 23-24 inches over the wall (measuring from the side closest to me) With my arms slightly bent and not leaning or stretching in anyway
I’m 5’3 with not unusually long arms imo

 

[justice4allnow]

For more insight into the family dynamics.
When he was younger, did SA play toss the baby in the air games with him?
How often did poor Chloe bang on the hockey glass? Please correct me if I am wrong, but I do not recall any video of Chloe doing this...just the one photo standing with her hands on the glass.
Did SA ever do anything to make him feel unsafe or concerned for Chloe’s safety?

Severe grief affects people differently, but the parents’ behavior, to me anyway, just appear to be so untypical.

Apologies for bringing up the sensitive topic of possible pre-existing medical conditions, but, once again, it gets back to family dynamics.

And for a 51 year old male to be referring to 18 month old Chloe as his “best friend” I find...odd.

These are just my thoughts and opinions.

I'm not sure that I have read that Sam referred to Chloe as his best friend...but I have read that Kim referred to Chloe as Sam's best friend. That was soon after the tragedy, and male friends who read the account found it unusual, the best friends designation.

 

[MsBetsy]

Wow. So thankful she didn’t have time to realize what was happening or to be scared. Just thinking she did has haunted me. Thanks for the info.

Yes, I doubt she had any time to think, just a few seconds of terror before it was over.
It's still horrible but at least it was not a long painful death.
Hopefully that is a comfort to the family, although if it were me I would not be able to stop thinking what her last moments were like.

 

[HRH Phoebe Cat]

I'm not sure that I have read that Sam referred to Chloe as his best friend...but I have read that Kim referred to Chloe as Sam's best friend. That was soon after the tragedy, and male friends who read the account found it unusual, the best friends designation.

Thank you for the correction. Still odd...JMO.

 

[MsBetsy]

maybe the 19inches is their measurement from inside of wooden rail to outside of windows sill (is thebra 6?inches?)
But I realized I have a set up in the house -half wall 42-43 inches high with a 9inch wide wood plank on top. I am able to Veery easily reach 23-24 inches (measuring from the side closest to me) With my arms slightly bent and not leaning or stretching in anyway
I’m 5’3 with not unusually long arms imo

I don't know. At first I read it was 12 inches, then 18 inches. This is the first time I've heard 19 inches.

 

[MsBetsy]

Why did the article say 19" ? Humm.

Clearly this is apx. 15 1\2 inches from outer edge of window to outer edge of railing. 3 1\2 inches off what is in the article.

Railing only apx. 2 inches wide.

The railing is only two inches wide? It looks wider to me.

 

[Lawsmygame2]

Yes, I doubt she had any time to think, just a few seconds of terror before it was over.
It's still horrible but at least it was not a long painful death.
Hopefully that is a comfort to the family, although if it were me I would not be able to stop thinking what her last moments were like.

Yes. I can’t imagine what the parents are going through. My heart breaks for them. The dad, in what few times I have seem him in interviews, seems so distraught and inconsolable. No fake tears from him which I can’t say the same about SA. Sorry but I have never seen someone cry so hard and no tears come out...aka his interview with DB.

 

[weepingangel]

I don't know. At first I read it was 12 inches, then 18 inches. This is the first time I've heard 19 inches.

Could be three feet by the time this is all said and done

 

[justice4allnow]

Yes, I doubt she had any time to think, just a few seconds of terror before it was over.
It's still horrible but at least it was not a long painful death.
Hopefully that is a comfort to the family, although if it were me I would not be able to stop thinking what her last moments were like.

Let's hold the thought that this precious baby did not understand what was happening, did not feel fear as an older person would. Maybe she just felt a thrilling. rushing sensation like being on a swing, that's what I want to think. I've read that her actual death was instantaneous.

 

[Aydrianna523]

Let's hold the thought that this precious baby did not understand what was happening, did not feel fear as an older person would. Maybe she just felt a thrilling. rushing sensation like being on a swing, that's what I want to think. I've read that her actual death was instantaneous.

I wish that was true. But my little grandkids were afraid at times...separation anxiety when mommy went to work/school. So falling like that? but it's over now...

 

[justice4allnow]

I wish that was true. But my little grandkids were afraid at times...separation anxiety when mommy went to work/school. So falling like that? but it's over now...

But think about how unafraid little ones are in learning to ski-they don't have a concept of fear of heights or fear of falling, so they are relaxed and learn to ski easily. She was only 18 months, I do not believe that she realized at all what was happening. And I need to believe this, or it's simply too painful to discuss.

 

[Cool Cats]

The railing is only two inches wide? It looks wider to me.

Going strictly by the close up of measuring tape but yes this could be distorted. But the measuring tape shows 2 inches, again, distorted?

 

[justice4allnow]

Going strictly by the close up of measuring tape but yes this could be distorted. But the measuring tape shows 2 inches, again, distorted?

Off topic, but Cool Cats, your chimera avatar is beautiful.

 

[mheido67]

What I would like to know is when he looked over the railing, was he looking down at the floor into the space between the railing and the window or was he really looking out of the window and down the side of the ship to the ground?

When he said he looked for her down on the floor maybe he was thinking that she fell there instead of out the window. Then he immediately looked out the window since she wasn't on the floor and realized she had fallen from the ship.

Imo

Yes, this is exactly what he meant I believe. As he looked down at the floor he didn’t see her there. Instead through the lower glass he saw her falling to the pier below. Horrible.

I genuinely believe his attention was not fully on CW and the details of the window. I think he assumed there was glass and casually tried to hold her forward so she could touch the glass but he wasn’t really looking with any focus. It was just another opportunity for her to bang on a window. To pass some time. So when she fell he was unaware of her actual position relative to the window frame. Clearly, if he didn’t recognize there was no glass he couldn’t have been very focused on the window. She fell, he thought she would be at his feet but she was much further forward than he realized. To my mind this explains both his surprise that she hadn’t fallen at his feet and that he didn’t realize there was no glass. He was just not paying attention. He was careless. And I doubt he would have noticed a warning label if there had been one present.