IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #7

[JulieBEMT]

If there is anyone on The Freedom Class or Voyager Class Royal Carribean Ships right now please safely safely get someone to take a photo of you putting just your arm out the window on deck 11.

I will be on Adventure (Voyager Class) next month with a group of 50. A number of us either are, or were FF/EMTs and nurses. This case has grabbed the attention of many of us, so I guarantee you will see some pictures and measurements.

I find it grotesque that Chloe's parents think that it is their right to have charges dropped against the person responsible for their child's death. Children have rights. 'Children's rights are a subset of human rights with particular attention to the rights of special protection and care afforded to minors.' Basic to children's rights is the right to life. Chloe has been deprived of her life. It was HER life. Her life did not belong to her parents and they do not have the right to forfeit it, give it away, to discard it. She was not their property, she was her own, separate person. Nor is it their right to excuse the person who deprived her of life. They may forgive that person in their hearts-but they may not excuse him from the legal consequences of his actions.

I could not love this post more! Thank you for eloquently stating what so many of us are thinking.

RCL Cruisers: In Port, How Does RCL Summon Passenger? And Why?
@justbreathe A question for our cruisers, esp. the RCL cruisers --- In port, how does RCL summon passenger? Cell? Communication line to cabin?
Specifically, Complaint, page 3, paragraph 12 "12. At or around 3:50 p.m., Mrs. Schultz Wiegand needed to go help with an issue related to the cruise..." Does not say she was "summoned."
Maybe no summons?
Is it possible, nobody summoned KS-W or anyone in the group, that perhaps at check-in/boarding, that RCL employee said, after you have settled in, later this afternoon, at your leisure, come to the [blank area] to check w us about [blank, for ex., how we'll deliver & pick up crib daily or how you dispose of diapers, etc.]...

I thought they said she needed to address a work matter. As others have said, there is no way RCCL would have summoned her from the pool deck. If, and only if, there was something that needed her attention, they would have left a message on her stateroom phone.

 

[Yellowbeak]

RCL Cruisers: In Port, How Does RCL Summon Passenger? And Why?
@justbreathe A question for our cruisers, esp. the RCL cruisers --- In port, how does RCL summon passenger? Cell? Communication line to cabin?
Specifically, Complaint, page 3, paragraph 12 "12. At or around 3:50 p.m., Mrs. Schultz Wiegand needed to go help with an issue related to the cruise..." Does not say she was "summoned."
Maybe no summons?
Is it possible, nobody summoned KS-W or anyone in the group, that perhaps at check-in/boarding, that RCL employee said, after you have settled in, later this afternoon, at your leisure, come to the [blank area] to check w us about [blank, for ex., how we'll deliver & pick up crib daily or how you dispose of diapers, etc.].

Or maybe not related to Chloe?
Maybe a hiccup w credit card authorization ( or dietary/food preference/food allergy issue, etc? Not at all likely imo, but I am not a cruiser). What else would KS-W got to office for?

Or maybe she did not go to office. Complaint does not say "office." Maybe needed/wanted a nap or alone time? Or?

She probably wanted to go to guest services to do a range of things or go make specialty dining reservations/ show reservations etc.

 

[In vino veritas]

Just saw this:https://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/tourism-cruises/article239684053.html

 

[whatsnext]

Just saw this:https://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/tourism-cruises/article239684053.html

My respect to everyone who chose to be a lawyer. I would run amok having to respond to such BS.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

Just saw this:https://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/tourism-cruises/article239684053.html

Wow, they must be getting desperate. I hope MW and company get sued for lying like this. Disgusting! Trying to protect a baby killer!!

 

[Lawnguylander1964]

I'm surprised an investigative reporter hasn't gone on the ship and done their own reenactment.

 

[WiseGuy]

I'm surprised an investigative reporter hasn't gone on the ship and done their own reenactment.

Truly competent investigative reporting, and journalistic integrity, are nearly extinct, I'm afraid. For example, David Begnaud: recall how meek and accepting he was of Anello's ridiculous claims - never a hint of a challenge. In referring to online comments, did Begnaud mention the overwhelming rejection of the family's stance in the comments? Nope, DB tells SA that comments are mostly against him being charged. Which is flat out untrue. Journalists are basically unthinking parrots these days. There are still exceptions, but they are getting really hard to find.

 

[whatsnext]

Truly competent investigative reporting, and journalistic integrity, are nearly extinct, I'm afraid. For example, David Begnaud: recall how meek and accepting he was of Anello's ridiculous claims - never a hint of a challenge. In referring to online comments, did Begnaud mention the overwhelming rejection of the family's stance in the comments? Nope, DB tells SA that comments are mostly against him being charged. Which is flat out untrue. Journalists are basically unthinking parrots these days. There are still exceptions, but they are getting really hard to find.

This!!! I agree with all of my heart.

 

[neesaki]

Wow, they must be getting desperate. I hope MW and company get sued for lying like this. Disgusting! Trying to protect a baby killer!!

ITA ! In the most recent DM article, there are 233 comments, of which almost all agree that SA is solely responsible for Chloe's death. All of this lying and distorting the truth in order to try to sway public opinion isn't working, if anything it's just making all of them look much worse.
Parents of toddler dropped to her death from Royal Caribbean ship beg Puerto Rico to end case | Daily Mail Online

 

[justbreathe]

My respect to everyone who chose to be a lawyer. I would run amok having to respond to such BS.

No need to thank them. They get paid more than enough for what they do.

 

[WiseGuy]

ITA ! In the most recent DM article, there are 233 comments, of which almost all agree that SA is solely responsible for Chloe's death. All of this lying and distorting the truth in order to try to sway public opinion isn't working, if anything it's just making all of them look much worse.
Parents of toddler dropped to her death from Royal Caribbean ship beg Puerto Rico to end case | Daily Mail Online

Agreed. Does anyone understand MW's strategy? Why the huge investment in trying to sway public opinion, if that's what he really is doing? Why does it matter?

 

[justice4allnow]

In Vino Vertitas, thank you for posting the article from the Miami Herald about Winkleman's law firm upbraiding RCCL. From that article a couple of statements are telling:
"Winkleman said Royal Caribbean’s aggressive defense-by-offense approach to this case deviates greatly from the norm."
And "We handle hundreds of cases yearly against the major cruise lines. The vast majority are resolved amicably and successfully,” Winkleman said." The Miami Herald refers to the motions filed by both RCCL and Winkleman's firm as "polite fencing."
The article seems to be saying that Winkleman expected RCCL to roll over and pay by now, based on other cases. I'm really glad that RCCL is NOT doing that, instead is standing on principle. Because a pay-out on this may only encourage similar behavior.

 

[WiseGuy]

In Vino Vertitas, thank you for posting the article from the Miami Herald about Winkleman's law firm upbraiding RCCL. From that article a couple of statements are telling:
"Winkleman said Royal Caribbean’s aggressive defense-by-offense approach to this case deviates greatly from the norm."
And "We handle hundreds of cases yearly against the major cruise lines. The vast majority are resolved amicably and successfully,” Winkleman said." The Miami Herald refers to the motions filed by both RCCL and Winkleman's firm as "polite fencing."
The article seems to be saying that Winkleman expected RCCL to roll over and pay by now, based on other cases. I'm really glad that RCCL is NOT doing that, instead is standing on principle. Because a pay-out on this may only encourage similar behavior.

Exactly! MW is in a fight he never expected, and now his creativity and intellect are being sorely tested. The amateurish re-enactment, the verbal tantrums, man he looks horrible, like he has never had to compete like this before. Seems all he has left in his bag of tricks is name-calling. Oh, and world-class hypocrisy - his supply of that is infinite.

 

[al66pine]

Winkleman's Strategy?

Agreed. Does anyone understand MW's strategy? Why the huge investment in trying to sway public opinion, if that's what he really is doing? Why does it matter?

@WiseGuy Not sure his strategy is trying to sway public opinion in this case.

Perhaps self-promotion for future business? Looking for name recognition by injured passengers or crew member of any cruise line?

 

[GeorgiaRai]

But I don't think the doll's height is as important as her over all size. Look at toddler life sized dolls. They are fuller figured, bigger feet , totally different than the mermaid bikini doll thy used.

The life-sized toddler doll would be bigger overall. And more realistic and life like. And it would be more shocking to see a realistic toddler type child put in that dangerous situation. Both dolls below=same height

I think you nailed it with "more realistic and life like" - and the more life like the reenactment, the more horrifying! Seems they're trying to avoid reinforcing the fact that this baby was 100% reliant on SA to keep her safe, IMO.

 

[In vino veritas]

Exactly! MW is in a fight he never expected, and now his creativity and intellect are being sorely tested. The amateurish re-enactment, the verbal tantrums, man he looks horrible, like he has never had to compete like this before. Seems all he has left in his bag of tricks is name-calling. Oh, and world-class hypocrisy - his supply of that is infinite.

IMO, I honestly believe he and the Wiegand family are treading in dangerous waters. The comments that have recently been put forth slant heavily toward libel.
Also, IMO, as I’ve previously stated, RCL must have very conclusive evidence beyond what was put forth in the motion to dismiss. If they were not supremely confident that all culpability resides with SA, they would have settled quietly with the Wiegands shortly after the accident. RCL would not risk its reputation, particularly given the sensitive nature of a toddlers death.
IMO, RCL’s silence, apart from the legally required mandate to respond to the lawsuit, is very wise. They are giving MW and family all the rope they need to hang themselves.

 

[justice4allnow]

Perhaps self-promotion for future business? Looking for name recognition by injured passengers or crew member of any cruise line?

Exactly this! It's a PT Barnum style of self-promotion, that "there's no such thing as bad publicity." I think he knows that this one is not going to go his way...but he still has more time to be on TV, in newspapers, magazines and social media. He couldn't afford to buy the kind of publicity he's getting-millions of people know his name and face now. The Wiegands probably have been led to believe that they are doing something noble that will also result in lifetime financial security -but all that is really happening is that this guy is getting free publicity. How very sad. Because of TOS I will not say what I really think about this man.

 

[JerseySleuth17]

I saw a similar analogy on Reddit which I thought was a good one - say SA forgot CW in a hot car and she died. The entire family forgives him immediately, then turns around and 8 days after her death files papers to begin the process of suing the car manufacturer because really it's the manufacturer's fault for not having a warning or alarm to remind SA to get the kid out of the car. This is the same twisted logic they are using to sue RCCL. But the facts here are even worse, CW was perfectly safe until SA lifted her up over a safety railing and held her out over it, window or no window is besides the point - if he had left her on the floor, or behind the safety railing, she would be alive.

 

[neesaki]

Winkleman's Strategy?
@WiseGuy Not sure his strategy is trying to sway public opinion in this case.

Perhaps self-promotion for future business? Looking for name recognition by injured passengers or crew member of any cruise line?

Good point, he has the media marketing his name for him, getting it out all over the world. SMH

 

[they'll get you]

Just saw this:https://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/tourism-cruises/article239684053.html

Where would the doll be if he straightened his arms ?
Yes, out the window!