IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #7

[katydid23]

How do you know the cruise wasn’t paid for by the grandparents? A gift to the family perhaps?

Lots of kids use fundraising to pay for sports or school trips. It’s not that unusual. And I’m certain many take advantage of modern online methods these days rather than going door to door to neighbors like pre-internet days.

I know that people use online fundraisers for sports or school trips. I have no problem with that.

But it is weird for someone to ask for others to help pay for a child's sports trip, when they are putting up the cash for themselves for a family cruise vacation. I wouldn't help pay for the sports trip if I knew they had the money but chose a vacation instead.

I help kids pay for sports or dance or whatever, when their families are unable to. Not when they could but decide to do something else, that's more fun, instead.

 

[neesaki]

Umm...we are on a site titled "Websleuths", so yes, that is the job description. They were on national tv shortly after the tragedy making statements that didn't all add up for many people, so websleuthing commenced.

Good point, justice4....... Websleuths = Truthseekers. I like that, and it’s actually true.

 

[neesaki]

I just had to LOL. In looking for the latest news, I came across this story. It's not the story that had me laughing. It's the name of the website. For a split second, I couldn't help wondering if Wink had gone so far as to create his own news site. LOL
Family of toddler who fell to her death off a cruise ship says Royal Caribbean provided a 'false narrative'

Omg, I saw that the other day and started to comment but didn’t. Isn’t that hilarious?

 

[redabby]

This case is so annoying. Unless it turns outs that SA has some serious provable issue, I believe he knew the window was open and as katydid23 mentioned it doesn't matter what he thought as he didn't check for glass. In the video he leans forward and if what he is saying is true thought that there was glass even though he didn't touch it, like some kind of bubble glass way out from the window. He then picks up poor baby Chloe and we all know what happened. If I was on a jury I would want to know where exactly did he think this glass was.

 

[neesaki]

I know that people use online fundraisers for sports or school trips. I have no problem with that.

But it is weird for someone to ask for others to help pay for a child's sports trip, when they are putting up the cash for themselves for a family cruise vacation. I wouldn't help pay for the sports trip if I knew they had the money but chose a vacation instead.

I help kids pay for sports or dance or whatever, when their families are unable to. Not when they could but decide to do something else, that's more fun, instead.

I agree with this, if the child wants to raise money for a trip, why can’t he mow lawns or something.

 

[oviedo]

I'm going through the media thread again to refresh myself on the timeline and this article from the Daily Mail 7/11 (Post #30) states their lawyer told them not to speak to police.

The accident was 7/9 in the afternoon, this article is 7/11, so they had a lawyer by sunrise 7/10.

But an official from the justice department told DailyMail.com that, on the advice of his lawyer, the elderly IT worker from Valparaiso, Indiana, left the ministry later that day without giving an official statement.

Alan Weigand, a 40-year-old police officer with the South Bend Police Department, and his attorney wife Kimberly, 36, were flying back to the US on a different flight.

A hearse and a police escort were due to meet them to escort Chloe's body back to their hometown of Granger, Indiana.
The couple had met with Justice Department officials on Tuesday and similarly refused to give witness statements, claiming they were on a different part of the ship when Chloe fell and didn't see anything.

DailyMail.com can reveal they were also then given the opportunity to view a 'high quality' video of their daughter's final moments captured from an onboard camera - but were too distraught to watch.

'The family were asked to come to the Justice Department to talk about what happened but they decided not to since their lawyer had told them not to,' said Justice Department spokesman Kelvin Carrasco.

'The investigation is going to keep going. Maybe they will be asked to come again.'
The Weigands have retained criminal attorneys in San Juan who have thus far declined to speak to the media.

We sometimes forget these little clues - they consulted legal counsel very quickly IMO

 

[JerseySleuth17]

I'm with you, SaguaroSpirit, Chloe deserves justice. It's possible that Sam has recently developed cognitive issues and cannot tell when windows are open, or that he was simply distracted. Another possibility is that he deliberately pushed Chloe out the window, intending harm. And then there are a number of possibilities that lay between either of those two extremes. None of us know for certain, but we may sense or intuit certain things based on our impressions and experiences. A toddler is dead and some of the actions and words of the family members are difficult to understand. Nothing definite, just feels "off."

I agree! This is why this case makes me so crazy. SA knew the window was open. Period. I think he came up with that lie and then ran with it, and now can't back out of it. But if you start with the assumption yes he knew the window was open, then to me it appears that he was playing a reckless game with her and dropped her, possibly b/c she jerked unexpectedly and he lost his grip on her. This narrative ties more closely to the eyewitness reports than anything else I've heard. But I find it SO odd that the family is also pushing this narrative and they all clammed up. Who does that when their baby died? Someone with something to hide. And if they are "protecting" SA and don't want him punished, I think if he had just pled guilty he would've gotten probation back in the states. I just can't comprehend why they are focusing their efforts on RCCL when the reason CW is dead is b/c of SA's actions. Even if in the beginning they didn't have all the facts, omg once they saw that video it would be it for me. In fact, when I finally DID see that video I was like "oh my god" because it was completely different from the narrative I had been reading, he literally stuck his whole upper body forward his face would have been inches from the glass, if not touching it, if the window was closed. He's completely lying.

 

[JerseySleuth17]

We sometimes forget these little clues - they consulted legal counsel very quickly IMO

OR, even if the "legal counsel" they consulted was CW's mom, b/c she was a lawyer and dad was LE, it's still inappropriate. If they were on another part of the ship so they had no knowledge of what was going on - then why not meet with investigators?? Because they were afraid they were going to be asked questions about SA - was he drinking, was he on medication, etc. etc. Highly suspicious. Honestly sometimes I go back to thinking this was somehow intentional. The only thing that keeps me from going too far down that road is the PR prosecutor charged him with negligent homicide, which to me sounds like based on eyewitness testimony he was playing a reckless game with her.

 

[Montrealaise]

Wow, people have really dug into their lives. And folks wonder why people clam up in front of LE. Lol.

That's because they have tried so hard to sway public opinion in their favor, trying to pin the blame for their baby daughter's death on the cruise line, which they are suing for millions of dollars. And yet it's so obvious to most people that the person who is responsible for the death is the step-grandfather who placed a baby on a window sill next to an open window 11 stories up. Do you really think that people will simply accept their version of events without questioning their motives?

 

[JulieBEMT]

How do you know the cruise wasn’t paid for by the grandparents? A gift to the family perhaps?

Lots of kids use fundraising to pay for sports or school trips. It’s not that unusual. And I’m certain many take advantage of modern online methods these days rather than going door to door to neighbors like pre-internet days.

While many use online methods to pay for sports or school trips, I would find it incredibly offensive if I donated to help a friend send his/her child on a sports trip only to learn the entire family was going on an expensive cruise. I wouldn't care if he/she told me the grandparents were paying for the trip. I would be ticked that they asked me to fund their child's trip and then took one of their own with both kids and three sets of grandparents. And, as others have said, this family has opened themselves up to this scrutiny with their shameless media appearances.

We sometimes forget these little clues - they consulted legal counsel very quickly IMO

OR, even if the "legal counsel" they consulted was CW's mom, b/c she was a lawyer and dad was LE, it's still inappropriate. If they were on another part of the ship so they had no knowledge of what was going on - then why not meet with investigators?? Because they were afraid they were going to be asked questions about SA - was he drinking, was he on medication, etc. etc. Highly suspicious. Honestly sometimes I go back to thinking this was somehow intentional. The only thing that keeps me from going too far down that road is the PR prosecutor charged him with negligent homicide, which to me sounds like based on eyewitness testimony he was playing a reckless game with her.

Lawyer or no lawyer, I cannot comprehend a woman who either protects, or hires someone to protect the man who just caused the death of her child less than 24 hours after it happened. It does not give me that "warm and fuzzy mom" feeling at all! It makes me physically ill.

 

[In vino veritas]

While many use online methods to pay for sports or school trips, I would find it incredibly offensive if I donated to help a friend send his/her child on a sports trip only to learn the entire family was going on an expensive cruise. I wouldn't care if he/she told me the grandparents were paying for the trip. I would be ticked that they asked me to fund their child's trip and then took one of their own with both kids and three sets of grandparents. And, as others have said, this family has opened themselves up to this scrutiny with their shameless media appearances.





Lawyer or no lawyer, I cannot comprehend a woman who either protects, or hires someone to protect the man who just caused the death of her child less than 24 hours after it happened. It does not give me that "warm and fuzzy mom" feeling at all! It makes me physically ill.

Had she hired someone to protect SA immediately after the incident, it would have been a CRIMINAL attorney. Instead, a civil attorney, MW, was engaged less than 24 hours after Chloe’s death.

 

[Lawnguylander1964]

The article said they engaged a criminal attorney and that's who advised them not to give a statement to police.

 

[Yellowbeak]

That can really vary. Based on if it’s an interior, oceAnview, balcony or suite and if it’s during a holiday. Also, sometimes RC runs a kids sail free promotion. So I’d say the cheapest would probably be around $750 p/p . JMO

I'm curious about something and I hope someone can help me out. I've never been on a cruise and I wonder just how much this family's cruise cost, for a family of four (2 adults, 2 children) and two sets of grandparents. I'm asking because I took another look at the crowdfunding sites for SA and the rest of the family, and they give the impression that these people don't have much money.

 

[IceIce9]

OR, even if the "legal counsel" they consulted was CW's mom, b/c she was a lawyer and dad was LE, it's still inappropriate. If they were on another part of the ship so they had no knowledge of what was going on - then why not meet with investigators?? Because they were afraid they were going to be asked questions about SA - was he drinking, was he on medication, etc. etc. Highly suspicious. Honestly sometimes I go back to thinking this was somehow intentional. The only thing that keeps me from going too far down that road is the PR prosecutor charged him with negligent homicide, which to me sounds like based on eyewitness testimony he was playing a reckless game with her.

To be considered murder intent would have to be proven.

 

[mheido67]

That's because they have tried so hard to sway public opinion in their favor, trying to pin the blame for their baby daughter's death on the cruise line, which they are suing for millions of dollars. And yet it's so obvious to most people that the person who is responsible for the death is the step-grandfather who placed a baby on a window sill next to an open window 11 stories up. Do you really think that people will simply accept their version of events without questioning their motives?

I don’t expect anyone to accept anything they say without question but what does any of that have to do with how much they paid for their cruise vacation or how they managed to afford it or how their son raises money to pay for his sports trip?

 

[Chikkamma]

I don’t expect anyone to accept anything they say without question but what does any of that have to do with how much they paid for their cruise vacation or how they managed to afford it or how their son raises money to pay for his sports trip?

bbm. It is relevant because it speaks to their character. Are these the type of people who feel entitled to get for free via solicited donations what other people pay for themselves? Would these same type of people feel entitled to millions of dollars solely because their child dies, irrespective of cause?

 

[MimosaMornings]

That can really vary. Based on if it’s an interior, oceAnview, balcony or suite and if it’s during a holiday. Also, sometimes RC runs a kids sail free promotion. So I’d say the cheapest would probably be around $750 p/p . JMO

Most likely would not include the following:

Drinks or daily packages
Alcoholic drinks or daily packages
Casino
Excursions
Internet

Cruise Drink & Beverage Packages | Royal Caribbean Cruises

 

[neesaki]

I'm going through the media thread again to refresh myself on the timeline and this article from the Daily Mail 7/11 (Post #30) states their lawyer told them not to speak to police.

The accident was 7/9 in the afternoon, this article is 7/11, so they had a lawyer by sunrise 7/10.

But an official from the justice department told DailyMail.com that, on the advice of his lawyer, the elderly IT worker from Valparaiso, Indiana, left the ministry later that day without giving an official statement.

Alan Weigand, a 40-year-old police officer with the South Bend Police Department, and his attorney wife Kimberly, 36, were flying back to the US on a different flight.

A hearse and a police escort were due to meet them to escort Chloe's body back to their hometown of Granger, Indiana.
The couple had met with Justice Department officials on Tuesday and similarly refused to give witness statements, claiming they were on a different part of the ship when Chloe fell and didn't see anything.

DailyMail.com can reveal they were also then given the opportunity to view a 'high quality' video of their daughter's final moments captured from an onboard camera - but were too distraught to watch.

'The family were asked to come to the Justice Department to talk about what happened but they decided not to since their lawyer had told them not to,' said Justice Department spokesman Kelvin Carrasco.

'The investigation is going to keep going. Maybe they will be asked to come again.'
The Weigands have retained criminal attorneys in San Juan who have thus far declined to speak to the media.

Thanks very much for the refresher. I don’t remember this exactly.... Did Chloe’s parents also retain a criminal attorney, or just SA?

 

[al66pine]

Did SA Read Cruise Line's Guest Conduct Policy?

Thinking about it I believe that the person under whose name the booking is made can accept/acknowledge the cruise ticket contract for everyone in the party. .... It would be pretty ironic if KW or AW did the online contract acceptance for SA and he never read it .....

@mheido67 bbm sbm
On first ^ point, agreeing that on face of Ticket Contract, if AW or KSW or someone else in the group completed online procedures, then seems SA was bound by Ticket Contract terms. Well, if enforceable.
Another paragraph of Ticket Contract incorporates. by reference RCL's Guest Conduct Policy** which prohibits "Sitting, standing, lying or climbing on, over or across any exterior or interior railings..."

Yes, would seem ironic if SA never read the Policy.
-------------------------------------------------------
Cruise/Cruisetour Ticket Contract
1. INTRODUCTION....
Purchase or use of this Ticket Contract, whether or not signed by the Passenger, shall constitute the agreement by Passenger, on behalf of himself and all other persons traveling under this Ticket Contract (including any accompanying minors or other persons for whom the Ticket Contract was purchased), to be bound by the terms and conditions of this Ticket Contract...."
"...d. Carrier may refuse to transport any Passenger, and may remove any Passenger from the Vessel or Transport at any time, for any of the following reasons:...
"...(iv) for failure to comply with Carrier's rules and procedures, including , for example, Carrier 's Guest Conduct Policy.... Carrier 's Guest Conduct Policy ... available online at http://www.royalcaribbean.com/content/en_US/pdf/Guest_Conduc t_Policy.pdf . bbm sbm
-------------------------------------------------------
**Guest Conduct Policy
"Unsafe Behavior
Sitting, standing, lying or climbing on, over or across any exterior or interior railings or other protective barriers ....or systems designed for guest safety is not permitted..." bbm sbm

 

[Chikkamma]

dbm