IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #7

[SaguaroSpirit]

I cannot imagine ever putting my mother's boyfriend over my own child.

Something's awfully wrong, there. Just one of the many red flags in this case.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

I don’t think I would even be able to utter my child’s name without breaking down after such a dreadful death, much less callously refer to her as a misdemeanor. Twice.

My head also spins at how quickly Dad was at the scene of his daughter’s gruesome death, taking pictures for their lawsuit. I believe it was within several hours of Chloe’s death.

As I see it, unpopular opinion or not...this thing was a setup from the word GO. And SA was/is the patsy. “There’s more to life than a little money, ya know. Don’tcha know that? And here ya are. And it’s a beautiful day. Well. I just don’t understand it."~ Marge Gunderson, "Fargo".

 

[In vino veritas]

With RCL stating its intent to re-file their Motion to Dismiss, it will be very interesting to see if they are successful this time.

the judge in Miami did give the cruise line permission to re-file, provided RCL remained with the four points of the plaintiffs lawsuit in their motion arguments.

IMO, if the judge denies the motion a second time, this could be perceived by potential jurors as partial culpability on RCL’s part, despite evidence to the contrary.

What are the thoughts on this subject from fellow Sleuthers??

 

[Fidobell]

With RCL stating its intent to re-file their Motion to Dismiss, it will be very interesting to see if they are successful this time.

the judge in Miami did give the cruise line permission to re-file, provided RCL remained with the four points of the plaintiffs lawsuit in their motion arguments.

IMO, if the judge denies the motion a second time, this could be perceived by potential jurors as partial culpability on RCL’s part, despite evidence to the contrary.

What are the thoughts on this subject from fellow Sleuthers??

Agree with you totally, RCL lawyers need to go with the four points and convince the judge this time , that will be crucial to the outcome of the case against them JMO

 

[loveandhugs]

Just wondering if anyone knows how old KW’s mom is. We know SA is 51, is she close to his age? I know there is no way I could forgive SA for the death of my granddaughter, yet we never heard anything from the maternal grandmother. Still can not understand how everyone in the family just goes on with their life, the lawsuit seems to be their priority, they will blame RCCL for being at fault because they can win a big settlement, but forgive SA for being reckless and causing Chloe's Death. He should be the one being sued. Guess he isn’t a big corporation, so that isn’t where the money is. jMO

 

[Safetybug]

Just wondering if anyone knows how old KW’s mom is.

according to thegirlsun, the father is 41 and the mother is 37

 

[loveandhugs]

according to thegirlsun, the father is 41 and the mother is 37

The wife of SA, she must be a little older than SA if her daughter is 37. Just can’t figure out how she could forgive him for the death of her granddaughter, I know I couldn’t.

 

[Lawsmygame2]

Just wondering if anyone knows how old KW’s mom is. We know SA is 51, is she close to his age? I know there is no way I could forgive SA for the death of my granddaughter, yet we never heard anything from the maternal grandmother. Still can not understand how everyone in the family just goes on with their life, the lawsuit seems to be their priority, they will blame RCCL for being at fault because they can win a big settlement, but forgive SA for being reckless and causing Chloe's Death. He should be the one being sued. Guess he isn’t a big corporation, so that isn’t where the money is. jMO

According to marriage records in 2014, KSW was 31 so she will be 37 this year. The father will be 41 this year.

Marriage licenses

Sorry...I posted before I saw posts from others.

 

[redabby]

Just wondering if anyone knows how old KW’s mom is. We know SA is 51, is she close to his age? I know there is no way I could forgive SA for the death of my granddaughter, yet we never heard anything from the maternal grandmother. Still can not understand how everyone in the family just goes on with their life, the lawsuit seems to be their priority, they will blame RCCL for being at fault because they can win a big settlement, but forgive SA for being reckless and causing Chloe's Death. He should be the one being sued. Guess he isn’t a big corporation, so that isn’t where the money is. jMO

I think she is 62 yrs old but I don't know how long they have been married someone thought about 20ys someone else less. I agree the family's stance is very odd. All I can imagine is they are being so silent because they think there is a possibility that AW and KW might get a pay-out of some sort and so are frightened to cross them .
I really don't think the wider family can be so deluded they are probably secretly angry with SA.
I would love to be a spy on their walls and see what the real family dynamics are like.

 

[Lawnguylander1964]

Ever since the expert witness, forensic pathologist Michael Baden testified at the trial of OJ Simpson on behalf of the defense, my “ohhh ahhh they are famous and EXPERT, they must be right” bubble was burst.

I now give expert witnesses no credence at all, they will perform like dancing monkeys (which I don’t endorse either) for the highest bidder. Anyone who donates to the family’s Givememoneys are helping SA hire a more well-known, well-spoken expert witness.

I agree. The "memory expert" for the defense in the Harvey Weinstein trial would be amusing if it wasn't so serious.

 

[Lawnguylander1964]

With RCL stating its intent to re-file their Motion to Dismiss, it will be very interesting to see if they are successful this time.

the judge in Miami did give the cruise line permission to re-file, provided RCL remained with the four points of the plaintiffs lawsuit in their motion arguments.

IMO, if the judge denies the motion a second time, this could be perceived by potential jurors as partial culpability on RCL’s part, despite evidence to the contrary.

What are the thoughts on this subject from fellow Sleuthers??

The lawyers can correct me, but I'm pretty sure it's rare that a case is dismissed on a motion. This is a standard motion in all litigation and rarely succeeds.

For me, sitting in the bleachers, if any case could get dismissed at this point, it would be this one with the video.

 

[musicaljoke]

Well with your post you raised a really good question, as to why KSW stated “misdemeanor “ in her statement. It’s as though she’s somewhat downplaying the killing of her daughter..... to a misdemeanor. Why would a mother do that when it’s her own child? IDK

I suppose this has been asked already, but was Chloe their own, natural born child?

 

[Hughaskton]

Based on the language of the penalty statute, it seems that if SA is found guilty he must serve at least (mandatory minimum) of 6 months but no more than 3 years. So just probation would not be an option. Anyone else have any thoughts on this and on whether a plea agreement or a guilty verdict could result in just probation.

The judge could impose a suspended sentence. I’m not sure if they would since he has declined a plea deal, but that is how he could avoid actual time in prison if f found guilty.

 

[al66pine]

KSW & SA. Relationship. Forgiveness?

Boyfriend? I thought he was the mother's husband and that they married about 20 years ago, when KW was still a teenager.

@Montrealaise ^ Same here, IIRC.
Regardless of length of marriage and SA's status a stepfather to KSW, what do we actually, really, truly know w 100% certainty about the nature of their relationship? Personally I don't profess to knowing anything.
Maybe as a teen KSW clashed constantly w SA. Maybe both simmered silently. Could have been typical short-lived teen phase or a genuine dislike/loathing. Any ill feelings could be/have been one sided (either side) or mutual and could have continued into adulthood, even to current day. Or maybe theirs was and still is a genuine loving relationship, w KSW's moral compass pointing to instant, automatic forgiveness for SA.
Just saying it's possible that an outsider's impression of a three-generation group on a weeklong vacation cruise may be a rosy one - A Happy Little Family - but may be far off the mark. IDK.

 

[al66pine]

I suppose this has been asked already, but was Chloe their own, natural born child?

@musicaljoke
From obituary, "... born Dec. 13, 2017, in South Bend, Indiana, weighing merely 4 pounds, 6 ounces, and was cared for by Beacon Children's Hospital, Newborn Intensive Care Unit..." < Local-to-them hosp.
Did someone see and post that KSW's soc media showed pix of her being pregnant in 2017?
If ^ so, then seems to be their own bio child. (Not that I see as relevant.)

View Chloe Wiegand's Obituary and express your condolences < legacy.com

 

[Wehwalt]

The judge did not say the "four points", he said the "four corners" of the document (the plaintiff's initial complaint). That means, he is telling the cruise line's lawyers, when they bring another motion to dismiss, to discuss the document itself, and avoid using outside evidence (the videos and photographs).

Recall that this is a Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 12(b)(6) motion to dismiss. That is for "failure to state a claim upon which relief can be granted". What the Supreme Court has said the plaintiffs (parents here) have to show to withstand such a motion is a claim in the initial complaint which is "plausible on its face", that is, if things happened the way the plaintiffs said they did, that the defendant (cruise line) would be liable. That is what I expect the defendant to focus on in the renewed motion. That the facts as alleged in the initial complaint (remember, we're keeping inside its four corners) don't show liability by the cruise line.

I'm not convinced they can make a winning argument but this gives them a free shot at the plaintiffs and delay favors defendants.

 

[HRH Phoebe Cat]

DBM..sparing the mods the work

 

[Safetybug]

Two of my burning queries for WS-ers are based on things I read elsewhere that were implied true yet there was no source:
#1) Is 51 yr old SA merely the “boyfriend” of the grandmother???
(if so then that means he is NOT a relative, nor a step-grandparent, and clearly not an elderly grandfather)
#2) did the parents have a life insurance policy drawn up on CW before going the cruise???
(if so then that’s a darker spin on CW’s demise being a freak accident)

 

[justbreathe]

I cannot imagine ever putting my mother's boyfriend over my own child.

It is extremely odd, the tenacity and aggression with which she defends the killer of her child.

 

[Pammi]

Two of my burning queries for WS-ers are based on things I read elsewhere that were implied true yet there was no source:
#1) Is 51 yr old SA merely the “boyfriend” of the grandmother???
(if so then that means he is NOT a relative, nor a step-grandparent, and clearly not an elderly grandfather)
#2) did the parents have a life insurance policy drawn up on CW before going the cruise???
(if so then that’s a darker spin on CW’s demise being a freak accident)

i believe they are married, the local paper reports her as wife, I think property records support that....imo