IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #7

[TDoc72]

When’s the next court date?

 

[they'll get you]

OT but M Winkleman in the Washington Post about “hearing from people” in Japanese Port being quarantined due to corona virus on board a Princess ship. Maybe he’ll get busy with new cases and this one falls by the wayside. Where it should fall.

ETA. https://apple.news/AqMGseQnqTdi_QqDMxlQgkg
Got it.

Sue the ship or sue the infected person who lied on where he had travelled.

If in doubt sue the ship because they are the ones with the deepest pockets.

 

[they'll get you]

Exactly . Reckless, dangerous, not to mention, isn’t child abuse against the law? Chloe was being emotionally and physically abused when SA treated her like nothing and chose to put her life in danger...to the point of her death. Why is it there aren’t more charges than negligent homicide. Should CPS not have been involved?

Also, he made a conscious and proactive choice when he did what he did to Chloe. I think that’s why so many have come to the conclusion that the most likely explanation is, that he purposely threw her off the boat. Because it’s very hard to rationalize his actions in any other way. Any other explanation is too unbelievable. Jmo

Justice for Chloe

Everyone believed SA but now there’s the film and now there’s no excuses.

 

[neesaki]

Sue the ship or sue the infected person who lied on where he had travelled.

If in doubt sue the ship because they are the ones with the deepest pockets.

I'm unclear on this. Do they totally go on what the passengers tell them as to where they have travelled from ? They don't check their passports for that information ?
Or is there no other way to confirm that the passenger is telling them the truth ?
Am I just confused ?

 

[Snoods]

Am I the only one sketched out by the ship doctor’s comment about SA’s only showing emotion when someone specifically asked him what happened to Chloe? (This is in the document dump from Kindred.)

The elderly (vomit) IT worker was quizzed by police in the hours after Chloe's fall but left San Juan without giving a formal witness statement, blaming confusion, his extreme distress and the lack of an interpreter.

His distress seemed largely hinged upon someone asking him about something he didn’t want to talk about until he got legal advice from his family.

He managed to slink away to catch his flight home just fine, no confusion or distress at all.

(Someone mentioned SA holding Chloe with one arm while pushing his glasses up, this is a plausible theory.)

Parents of Chloe Wiegand stand by her grandfather after he is charged in her death | Daily Mail Online

 

[katydid23]

I'm unclear on this. Do they totally go on what the passengers tell them as to where they have travelled from ? They don't check their passports for that information ?
Or is there no other way to confirm that the passenger is telling them the truth ?
Am I just confused ?

It seems it'd be easy enough to look at their passports. They are clearly stamped....

 

[BrownRice]

My two nephews were climbers. My sister still makes references to how they “frosted my hair for me.” No way in the world would she have even considered a cruise. Had anything happened, she would have blamed herself until the end of time....

Yep. Same here. Would never consider a cruise with toddlers. Talk about having to be on high alert 24 hrs a day. Same thing as the Grand Canyon. I’d die of anxiety. But I also wasn’t a chill parent of toddlers. Always worrying about something.

I still have all the sympathy in the world to Chloes parents. Just will never understand their support for the step grandpa. Who again is a pretty young man, not an elderly grandpa.

 

[Snoods]

And I loved the suggestion of installing fans! Yes, I’m gonna book an expensive cruise around the Caribbean so I can sit on a sealed up pool deck and listen to industrial strength fans blow air around! And of course let’s not consider the safety issue presented by dozens of spinning fan blades in a “children’s play area”. Oh lordie, don’t get me started with that nonsense.

*snork* What!? A half dozen of these turbine driven puppies blasting air at you while you scream to be heard above the noise level from about 100dB sounds like magical moments in the making.



You “Wait, are we in a back alley warehouse?”

Me “WHAT? THE FANS ARE A LITTLE LOUD! NO, it’s not a people of Wally World convention!”

You “Why are the windows tinted black and all screened in with metal bars across them?”

Me “BECAUSE WE’RE SAFE, dumb doodie head! We’re too stupid to walk around without falling out of stuff.”

You “I’m feeling claustrophobic.”

Me “But SO SAFE, right? Thank you, Wiegand’s, this is a phenomenal vacation.”

 

[JulieBEMT]

I'm unclear on this. Do they totally go on what the passengers tell them as to where they have travelled from ? They don't check their passports for that information ?
Or is there no other way to confirm that the passenger is telling them the truth ?
Am I just confused ?

It seems it'd be easy enough to look at their passports. They are clearly stamped....

Chloe's cruise was what's called a "closed loop" (leaving and returning to the U.S.). People don't even need to show their passports. They can cruise with just a birth certificate and photo ID. While there were some people quarantined in New Jersey, the quarantines involving entire ships were/are in Asia, where they hadn't yet learned enough about the virus to cancel them or ban anyone.

 

[Montrealaise]

When’s the next court date?

February 24, less than two weeks from now.

 

[they'll get you]

I'm unclear on this. Do they totally go on what the passengers tell them as to where they have travelled from ? They don't check their passports for that information ?
Or is there no other way to confirm that the passenger is telling them the truth ?
Am I just confused ?

The Chinese man who infected the whole ship lied because he didn’t want to loose his money.

I’ll find the link.

 

[they'll get you]

*snork* What!? A half dozen of these turbine driven puppies blasting air at you while you scream to be heard above the noise level from about 100dB sounds like magical moments in the making.

View attachment 231370

You “Wait, are we in a back alley warehouse?”

Me “WHAT? THE FANS ARE A LITTLE LOUD! NO, it’s not a people of Wally World convention!”

You “Why are the windows tinted black and all screened in with metal bars across them?”

Me “BECAUSE WE’RE SAFE, dumb doodie head! We’re too stupid to walk around without falling out of stuff.”

You “I’m feeling claustrophobic.”

Me “But SO SAFE, right? Thank you, Wiegand’s, this is a phenomenal vacation.”

Bloody hilarious!

 

[they'll get you]

Chloe's cruise was what's called a "closed loop" (leaving and returning to the U.S.). People don't even need to show their passports. They can cruise with just a birth certificate and photo ID. While there were some people quarantined in New Jersey, the quarantines involving entire ships were/are in Asia, where they hadn't yet learned enough about the virus to cancel them or ban anyone.

They mean business now.
The US cruise ship company Royal Caribbean has announced that would-be passengers and crew with Chinese passports will be banned from all of its cruise ships – regardless of when they were last in the country at the centre of the coronavirus outbreak.

The measure – which also covers people with Hong Kong and Macau passports – comes amid growing concerns over the fast-spreading virus, which has killed more than 700 people and affected individuals in at least 25 countries.
Coronavirus: Royal Caribbean bans all Chinese nationals from its cruise ships

 

[mheido67]

They mean business now.
The US cruise ship company Royal Caribbean has announced that would-be passengers and crew with Chinese passports will be banned from all of its cruise ships – regardless of when they were last in the country at the centre of the coronavirus outbreak.

The measure – which also covers people with Hong Kong and Macau passports – comes amid growing concerns over the fast-spreading virus, which has killed more than 700 people and affected individuals in at least 25 countries.
Coronavirus: Royal Caribbean bans all Chinese nationals from its cruise ships

This story about a UK couple who were set to sail on Anthem of the Seas out of Cape Liberty NJ when the ship was held in port to ensure the coronavirus wasn't on board.

https://nypost.com/2020/02/08/stran...passengers-slam-liner-amid-coronavirus-scare/

I understand people's frustration but the guy is complaining about RCCL putting "profits ahead of passengers". Lol! Everyday those ships sit without paying customers aboard is money out the porthole for RCCL. If they loaded everyone onboard and hundreds of people got sick this guy'd be on the phone with MW lickity split! As it is he and his wife will likely get a nice discount on their shortened cruise.

 

[JerseySleuth17]

They mean business now.
The US cruise ship company Royal Caribbean has announced that would-be passengers and crew with Chinese passports will be banned from all of its cruise ships – regardless of when they were last in the country at the centre of the coronavirus outbreak.

The measure – which also covers people with Hong Kong and Macau passports – comes amid growing concerns over the fast-spreading virus, which has killed more than 700 people and affected individuals in at least 25 countries.
Coronavirus: Royal Caribbean bans all Chinese nationals from its cruise ships

RC changed this policy yesterday. I got an email. They said "now that government restrictions have been clarified" they are now allowing people with a Chinese passport. I suspect this is more likely due to the fact that their legal counsel realized you cannot simply ban someone from traveling on your cruise for the sole reason they are Chinese (racial profiling is illegal - duh).

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

Seven months have passed since Chloe's death. When it first happened, I thought that if the parents believed Sam's story, it was because they couldn't bear to basically lose two members of their family at once. Chloe had just passed and if they didn't believe Sam innocent, they would have to reject him, thus losing him too. But now that time has passed, everyone connected will be feeling very differently than they did at first. The immediate shock has passed, everyone has thought it over, seen the videos, read and talked about it. By now probably only Patti still stands behind him, and even she may have doubts. If Kim and Al are not blaming Sam now, I can only assume that they are complicit in what happened. Sam is either a fool or evil...or... several of them are evil.

^^THIS^^ right here. ITA,

 

[In vino veritas]

When’s the next court date?

I believe SA needs to be at court in PR on Feb 24, 2020.

 

[mheido67]

Seven months have passed since Chloe's death. When it first happened, I thought that if the parents believed Sam's story, it was because they couldn't bear to basically lose two members of their family at once. Chloe had just passed and if they didn't believe Sam innocent, they would have to reject him, thus losing him too. But now that time has passed, everyone connected will be feeling very differently than they did at first. The immediate shock has passed, everyone has thought it over, seen the videos, read and talked about it. By now probably only Patti still stands behind him, and even she may have doubts. If Kim and Al are not blaming Sam now, I can only assume that they are complicit in what happened. Sam is either a fool or evil...or... several of them are evil.

SA has been involved with their family for decades, correct? Since KW was a teenager. I think another scenario is all involved have convinced themselves that it was indeed the fault of a 'hidden danger' on the ship because it's very much easier to believe that than to believe that a cherished family member is responsible. People will do a lot to maintain close personal relationships. People pack this stuff away. Blaming the ship is easy, there's no personal baggage there to deal with. They can just offload all the guilt onto a faceless corporation. Honestly, this is the kind of thing family members will repress for years and years. Someday something might happen to trigger KW or AW to lash out at SA with a ton of repressed anger but for now they're doing what allows them to keep what's left of their family intact. Just an alternate reading IMO.

 

[In vino veritas]

SA has been involved with their family for decades, correct? Since KW was a teenager. I think another scenario is all involved have convinced themselves that it was indeed the fault of a 'hidden danger' on the ship because it's very much easier to believe that than to believe that a cherished family member is responsible. People will do a lot to maintain close personal relationships. People pack this stuff away. Blaming the ship is easy, there's no personal baggage there to deal with. They can just offload all the guilt onto a faceless corporation. Honestly, this is the kind of thing family members will repress for years and years. Someday something might happen to trigger KW or AW to lash out at SA with a ton of repressed anger but for now they're doing what allows them to keep what's left of their family intact. Just an alternate reading IMO.

This is a very valid viewpoint and likely is true to a degree.
BUT, one assumes that presumably intelligent people, after 7 months have passed, would be able to look at the evidence presented and alter their position. Especially since these people are related to LE and should be able to differentiate fact from fiction.
Consequently, one can’t help but draw a logical conclusion.... $$$$ is a major motivator.
Had the Wiegands truly believed in SA’s innocence, SA would have been urged to accept a plea deal to avoid incarceration, or they would have engaged a criminal defense attorney at the onset. Instead, within 36 hours, a civil attorney was brought in.
One cannot help but wonder at the actions of the family, but, IMHO, I truly believe that financial gain is a main objective. I’m not saying they were complicit in what happened to Chloe; instead, I think KW is an opportunist who is taking the main chance. JMO.

 

[mheido67]

This is a very valid viewpoint and likely is true to a degree.
BUT, one assumes that presumably intelligent people, after 7 months have passed, would be able to look at the evidence presented and alter their position. Especially since these people are related to LE and should be able to differentiate fact from fiction.
Consequently, one can’t help but draw a logical conclusion.... $$$$ is a major motivator.
Had the Wiegands truly believed in SA’s innocence, SA would have been urged to accept a plea deal to avoid incarceration, or they would have engaged a criminal defense attorney at the onset. Instead, within 36 hours, a civil attorney was brought in.
One cannot help but wonder at the actions of the family, but, IMHO, I truly believe that financial gain is a main objective. I’m not saying they were complicit in what happened to Chloe; instead, I think KW is an opportunist who is taking the main chance. JMO.

You assume these particular people WANT to look at the evidence/facts and WANT to alter their position. I still seriously doubt KW has watched the video. She's got her boogeyman in the form of RCCL. No need to look for another one where she doesn't really want to find one.

Most innocent people, or people who believe themselves to be innocent, don't plead guilty. I know if I was falsly accused I'd fight it to my dying breath. The fact that they went directly in the civil suit direction supports this. They instinctively defended their family member and went after something they have no emotional attachment too. I have no doubt they will seek large monetary damages along with changes to the window design (warning stickers perhaps). Of course any good litigator will make the argument that hitting a big corp in the wallet is the best way to ensure that they will proactively address potentially dangerous situations before they face another big payout. Again, not saying you're wrong, just offering an aternate interpretation.