IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand

[oviedo]

I assume the ship video will be in discovery once they file against the Cruise line and the suit progresses. The odd part of all this is that they were offered the tape but declined...yet did interviews putting their narrative of what transpired out there ...saying they were not offered the video.


MOO

Precisely - the truth will come out - I will be watching to see if a civil lawsuit is actually filed - I’m guessing no JMO

 

[Seattle1]

He was allowed to return to Indiana after posting bail. This is pretty standard.

Thanks for confirming SA was allowed to return to IN. The msm link provided in my post stated it was unknown if he'd be free to leave.

 

[Seattle1]

Local family demanding answers after grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler

Oct 29, 2019

The preliminary hearing is set for November 20. Chloe's family requested surveillance footage of the incident from the cruise line and still has not received it.

The family attorney says the family intends to file a lawsuit very shortly.

 

[they'll get you]

I am 5’3” and I can’t really look out and down as that railing is to high, chest height, at the top windows but because the windows tilt outwards at an angle I can still look down through the bottom window.

I’ve cruised on the Voyager, Explorer and Oasis and they all have these windows. I’ve had a look on cruisecritic and the talk is all RCCL and many many others have these style windows for ventilation. A few have mentioned Chloe.

Freedom of the Seas - opening window???

 

[Seattle1]

Local family demanding answers after grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler

Oct 29, 2019

Below is a statement from Puerto Rico, translated by Luis Rodriguez:

"Attorney General Dennise N. Longo Quiñones, the Chief of Prosecutors, Arlene Gardón Rivera, together with the prosecutor's office of the district attorney of San Juan Víctor Carbonell, reported that charges were filed against Salvatore Anello for Negligent Homicide, per Article 96 of the Criminal Code.

In events that occurred on July 7, 2019, on the Freedom of the Seas cruise ship, on the Panamerican Pier II in San Juan, a child aged 1 year and 7 months lost her life when the step grandfather (husband of the maternal grandmother) negligently exposed her through one of the windows on the 11th floor of the ship. The minor fell from a height of 115 feet, which caused death instantly.

Today, Judge Jimmy Sepulveda of the San Juan Hall of Investigations, found cause for arrest against the accused, and imposed a bail of $ 80,000. The preliminary hearing was set for November 20, 2019. The investigation was carried out by agent Carlos Claudio La Santa of the Division of the Criminal Investigation of Homicides of San Juan in coordination with prosecutors Ivette Nieves Cordero and Laura Hernández Gutiérrez."

The South Bend FOP issued a statement on the charges:

“The charges filed in Puerto Rico today are appalling and do nothing but revictimize a family who experienced a horrific loss. Based on the facts, it sounds like the negligence in this tragedy came from the cruise ship, not the family. The South Bend FOP stands in support of Officer Alan Wiegand and his family and urges Puerto Rican authorities to drop these unnecessary charges.”

 

[Safeguard]

Many states do have laws that say refusal to submit results in a license suspension. It would make sense to me that a person could refuse to breathalyze but instead submit to a more accurate testing method.

I wonder why then, a "more accurate" method wasn't requested?

 

[katydid23]

Surviving 150 Foot Falls?
@katydid23
I'm sorry for wording my post in a way that made you think it disagreed w your yours, because I did not intend it that way. My apologies.
My opn was that she would not have survived impact onto either concrete or water after the150 foot fall. So the (hypo) lifejacket after falling onto/into water, would not have made a difference imo.

Hoping that explains it better. Again, my apologies.

No, not a problem, Alpine.

I was just trying to clarify

 

[Seattle1]

View attachment 212927
I am 5’3” and I can’t really look out and down as that railing is to high, chest height, at the top windows but because the windows tilt outwards at an angle I can still look down through the bottom window.

I’ve cruised on the Voyager, Explorer and Oasis and they all have these windows. I’ve had a look on cruisecritic and the talk is all RCCL and many many others have these style windows for ventilation. A few have mentioned Chloe.

Freedom of the Seas - opening window???

Thanks @Chris. P. Bacon for insight and photo.

Looking at the photo in your post, would you say that 3 of the windows are open?

 

[Safeguard]

IMO there would be no way not to tell the difference between an open v closed ship window.

I find that puzzing. No breeze at all, no sound? Smell of sea air... Even without the blue tint, not a hint of difference, between "open window" and closed?

So it was just tremendously bad luck, that he chose THAT particular window?

He won the "Bad Luck" Lottery then.

 

[katydid23]

DBM

 

[oviedo]

Local family demanding answers after grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler

Oct 29, 2019

The preliminary hearing is set for November 20. Chloe's family requested surveillance footage of the incident from the cruise line and still has not received it.

The family attorney says the family intends to file a lawsuit very shortly.

I find this odd since early reports said they were offered video and refused (which I understand) but now there is an arrest and presumably a trial and rules of civil procedure apply so of course they don’t get it now - this IMO is another tactic by the attorney

 

[al66pine]

Causing G'father to Drop Chloe? A Bump?

What if G’father said: ~ Holding Chloe in my arms, I was standing at the rail watching the dock, when A, B, C, or D hit me so hard, I lost my grip on her and she fell out of my arms, and I collapsed on the floor. Then I realized she had fallen, out thru the window.

A. A couple cruiseline employees rearranging furniture pushed a big lounge chair into me.
B. A 10 yr old kid chasing a frisbee bumped into me.
C. A two yr old wobble-walking grabbed my calf/leg for support.
D. Something else like ^ caused me to drop Chloe.


Q1. Could an action like any of ^ have happened, causing/contributing to G’father’s dropping Chloe.
A1: Yes, imo it’s possible.


Q2. Would being bumped like that (help) absolve G’father of responsibility?
A2: Depends, imo, on more detail (how far from window, how fast & hard the bump came, etc.) emerging. thru cruiseline’s vid presumably available later.


Q3. Think this hypo bump did in fact happen, causing G’father to drop her?
A3: No.

Q4. Why not?
A4: If something like this had happened, it would have been observed by passengers & others on that deck. And then pix, vids, articles, blog & vlog entries, interviews, podcasts, and vids would have surfaced all over soc media & MSM, back then, w no time lag til now or trial.


Q5: Any other reasons?
A5: Yes, two. First if the Bump-or had been a passenger, the word would have been circulating waaaay before now. Second if Bump-or(s) had been cruiseline employee(s), lawsuit would have been filed faster than no time flat.
Jmo.
[end of my interview w self, cut to commercial. j/k]

 

[oviedo]

Could you imagine sitting by the pool, with your children, and a baby girl lands violently onto the concrete, by your feet. It would be horrifying for all involved.

In my experience it would be those passengers and crew on the dock that would be traumatized since the ship was still in port / depending on the itinerary embarkation is up top but leaving the shop is at the lower levels for port visits and they would have seen this tragedy - I don’t know Freedoms schedule though but am sure there were witnesses to this horror JMO

 

[katydid23]

Lawyer insists grandpa not a drinker. Didn’t say not drinking at the time Chloe fell to her death.
So, why did officer father, (I think, maybe lawyer mom) IMMEDIATELY tell grandpa to refuse alcohol testing.
Hmm, why indeed?

If he is not a drinker, typically, but did have 1 or 2 because it was a special occasion, he may have been under the influence.

 

[oviedo]

Local family demanding answers after grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler

Oct 29, 2019

Below is a statement from Puerto Rico, translated by Luis Rodriguez:

"Attorney General Dennise N. Longo Quiñones, the Chief of Prosecutors, Arlene Gardón Rivera, together with the prosecutor's office of the district attorney of San Juan Víctor Carbonell, reported that charges were filed against Salvatore Anello for Negligent Homicide, per Article 96 of the Criminal Code.

In events that occurred on July 7, 2019, on the Freedom of the Seas cruise ship, on the Panamerican Pier II in San Juan, a child aged 1 year and 7 months lost her life when the step grandfather (husband of the maternal grandmother) negligently exposed her through one of the windows on the 11th floor of the ship. The minor fell from a height of 115 feet, which caused death instantly.

Today, Judge Jimmy Sepulveda of the San Juan Hall of Investigations, found cause for arrest against the accused, and imposed a bail of $ 80,000. The preliminary hearing was set for November 20, 2019. The investigation was carried out by agent Carlos Claudio La Santa of the Division of the Criminal Investigation of Homicides of San Juan in coordination with prosecutors Ivette Nieves Cordero and Laura Hernández Gutiérrez."

The South Bend FOP issued a statement on the charges:

“The charges filed in Puerto Rico today are appalling and do nothing but revictimize a family who experienced a horrific loss. Based on the facts, it sounds like the negligence in this tragedy came from the cruise ship, not the family. The South Bend FOP stands in support of Officer Alan Wiegand and his family and urges Puerto Rican authorities to drop these unnecessary charges.”

Well there it is - exposes her - much as we thought - he held her out the window is the way I read it JMO

 

[oviedo]

Local family demanding answers after grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler

Oct 29, 2019

Below is a statement from Puerto Rico, translated by Luis Rodriguez:

"Attorney General Dennise N. Longo Quiñones, the Chief of Prosecutors, Arlene Gardón Rivera, together with the prosecutor's office of the district attorney of San Juan Víctor Carbonell, reported that charges were filed against Salvatore Anello for Negligent Homicide, per Article 96 of the Criminal Code.

In events that occurred on July 7, 2019, on the Freedom of the Seas cruise ship, on the Panamerican Pier II in San Juan, a child aged 1 year and 7 months lost her life when the step grandfather (husband of the maternal grandmother) negligently exposed her through one of the windows on the 11th floor of the ship. The minor fell from a height of 115 feet, which caused death instantly.

Today, Judge Jimmy Sepulveda of the San Juan Hall of Investigations, found cause for arrest against the accused, and imposed a bail of $ 80,000. The preliminary hearing was set for November 20, 2019. The investigation was carried out by agent Carlos Claudio La Santa of the Division of the Criminal Investigation of Homicides of San Juan in coordination with prosecutors Ivette Nieves Cordero and Laura Hernández Gutiérrez."

The South Bend FOP issued a statement on the charges:

“The charges filed in Puerto Rico today are appalling and do nothing but revictimize a family who experienced a horrific loss. Based on the facts, it sounds like the negligence in this tragedy came from the cruise ship, not the family. The South Bend FOP stands in support of Officer Alan Wiegand and his family and urges Puerto Rican authorities to drop these unnecessary charges.”

And IMO the South Bend FOP needs to stay out of this - I used to work for the City and they should not be making any kind of statement about what went on

 

[Safeguard]

View attachment 212927
I am 5’3” and I can’t really look out and down as that railing is to high, chest height, at the top windows but because the windows tilt outwards at an angle I can still look down through the bottom window.

I’ve cruised on the Voyager, Explorer and Oasis and they all have these windows. I’ve had a look on cruisecritic and the talk is all RCCL and many many others have these style windows for ventilation. A few have mentioned Chloe.

Freedom of the Seas - opening window???

Right. (Obligatory) IMO, Chloe was held above the railing. I can't see how people are still talking about her being "seated" anywhere. She fell from his arms. That's pretty clear at this point.

 

[katydid23]

Causing G'father to Drop Chloe? A Bump?

What if G’father said: ~ Holding Chloe in my arms, I was standing at the rail watching the dock, when A, B, C, or D hit me so hard, I lost my grip on her and she fell out of my arms, and I collapsed on the floor. Then I realized she had fallen, out thru the window.

A. A couple cruiseline employees rearranging furniture pushed a big lounge chair into me.

B. A 10 yr old kid chasing a frisbee bumped into me.

C. A two yr old wobble-walking grabbed my calf/leg for support.

D. Something else like ^ caused me to drop Chloe.


Q1. Could an action like any of ^ have happened, causing/contributing to G’father’s dropping Chloe?
A1: Yes, imo it’s possible.


Q2. Would being bumped like that (help) absolve G’father of responsibility?

A2: Depends, imo, on more detail (how far from window, how fast & hard the bump came, etc.) emerging. thru cruiseline’s vid presumably available later.


Q3. Think this hypo bump did in fact happen, causing G’father to drop her?
A3: No.

Q4. Why not?
A4: If something like this had happened, it would have been observed by passengers & others on that deck. And then pix, vids, articles, blog & vlog entries, interviews, podcasts, and vids would have surfaced all over soc media & MSM, back then, w no time lag til now or trial.


Q5: Any other reasons?
A5: Yes, two. First if the Bump-or had been a passenger, the word would have been circulating waaaay before now. Second if Bump-or(s) had been cruiseline employee(s), lawsuit would have been filed faster than no time flat.
Jmo.
[end of my interview w self, cut to commercial. j/k]

Any or all of the above could have happened. And that is exactly why no one should ever place a baby up in an open window sill. Nothing good can happen but lots of bad circumstances can create a tragedy, instantly.

 

[Safeguard]

Could you imagine sitting by the pool, with your children, and a baby girl lands violently onto the concrete, by your feet. It would be horrifying for all involved.

Yeah. I really don't know where you're getting that nightmare fantasy. No one is likely to "imagine that". (until now, thanks... NOT!) Baby Girl fell on Dock Side. No passengers witnessed her death.

I mean, we could all come up with horrific visuals but aren't the facts, as we know them horrible enough for you? (They are for me).

 

[Lilibet]

If he is not a drinker, typically, but did have 1 or 2 because it was a special occasion, he may have been under the influence.

I have a vague memory of being handed a glass of champagne as we entered the ship for our one and only cruise on Celebrity in 2005. Is that customary...anyone? Or am I having a false memory?