IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #33

[NJGuy]

Hi NJGuy! I agree with a lot of what you said. Regarding the POI's disposing of the body-- it does make you wonder how in the heck drunk college boys could have done that so well? But let's remember: all they had to do was get lucky.

Another unfortunate thought is that even though the landfill was eventually searched, Lauren was so small that she may have been there and just not been found. Much like Abby Blagg from Grand Junction, CO is believed to have been dumped in the same landfill at which her mother's body was found but Abby was not able to be found during the search, sadly.

Thanks, and I think you're right: Lauren's small stature certainly made it easier to hide. I guess I'm having a hard time with the persons responsible to even think of taking her to a landfill or some other place a good distance away, let alone being able to pull it off within a few hours and daylight coming quickly. Could they be really that lucky to pull this off? Is it possible she was killed, transported off camera, placed in a vehicle or some other mode of transportation and hidden so well that despite searches and 3+ years, nothing, not one clue about her body has surfaced? I'm just struggling with this right now. It just seems so unlikely drunk college kids who may have just committed a murder could pull this off

 

[akh]

Is it possible she was killed, transported off camera, placed in a vehicle or some other mode of transportation and hidden so well that despite searches and 3+ years, nothing, not one clue about her body has surfaced? I'm just struggling with this right now. It just seems so unlikely drunk college kids who may have just committed a murder could pull this off

It would appear the answer is "yes". Whatever happened, must've happened off camera because this case would look totally different if it was on camera. Now, arguably maybe there is more photographic evidence than we know, but certainly not the smoking gun that would've changed the case or given LE leverage they felt they could use to move the case along.

 

[bessie]

My thoughts are still bothered by the amount of construction in progress at the time.

 

[Ixchel13]

if they took her right out their front door at 5N , into a car and turned left. no cameras.

Bloomington has scads of rural meth heads, just sayin. although things do point to friends and bf always a suspect, it really could have been random, doubtful but if she left and had fallen down, easy to pick her up and head west. heading north, east or south they would have camera evidence, but not west. IDK.....
If locals were involved with the friends, then we have a problem because this town and surrounding area is completely surounded by forests, lakes big and small, and all kinds of underground karst formations and also lots of quarries. Private land was not searched unless the owners volunteered. BTW, DB's family owns alot of land here, has a large realty/land holdings business called Paragon Properties, located near Seymour
IN, in which you would travel diagonally across a state forest to get to their properties. So here we have this POI from MI and everyone thinks he's totally a visitor but his family owns large tracts of land right here.
How well does this guy know the lay of the land here? who knows? but there could be employees that do.

 

[parttimesleuther]

My first post (after over a year lurking here and other threads).
A) The fact that Laurens parents are pursuing the civil suits leads me to believe they know about something (evidence/rumors/hunches) that we do not know, which to them confirms the guilt of those the suit is against. I believe they are trying to get that evidence or whatever it may be to come out at trial.
B) Didn't one of those boys last seen with Lauren drive up to Michigan or Wisconsin (can't remember) the following day? (Question only, not accusation of anything...)
C) I lived in Indiana and those I spoke to seem to have the same conclusion about what happened to her and who is responsible.
MOO

 

[NJGuy]

Thanks..I have some questions I hope can be answered or given some opinions on. And I apologize if these have been asked and discussed already, I'm still working my way through all 30+ threads. So please, bear with me.

1. So it's possible she died in the apt, and her body could be moved from the apt into the garage with no cameras. Now is it conceivable that at some point, a car leaving garage would not be caught on camera moving through Bloomington? As in if someone placed her body in the trunk and left the apt, would a camera eventually capture the car somewhere on the streets?

2. How much credence, if any, was given to stranger abduction? That would be one hell of a coincidence that after all that happened to LS that night, she is somehow on her way home, and she encounters an abductor. Still, it's possible, I suppose.

3. Does anyone actually know how deep her friends/bf/associates were in the drug game? Were they small-time dealers or actually moving some weight, enough weight to have some connections that could help with disposing of a body?

4. Does anyone believe she was transported out of state either early in the morning or next day and disposed of along a highway somewhere, either somewhere in Indiana, or between Indiana and NY?

 

[TedMac]

My first post (after over a year lurking here and other threads).
A) The fact that Laurens parents are pursuing the civil suits leads me to believe they know about something (evidence/rumors/hunches) that we do not know, which to them confirms the guilt of those the suit is against. I believe they are trying to get that evidence or whatever it may be to come out at trial.
B) Didn't one of those boys last seen with Lauren drive up to Michigan or Wisconsin (can't remember) the following day? (Question only, not accusation of anything...)
C) I lived in Indiana and those I spoke to seem to have the same conclusion about what happened to her and who is responsible.
MOO

Welcome to Websleuths!

 

[parttimesleuther]

Thanks..I have some questions I hope can be answered or given some opinions on. And I apologize if these have been asked and discussed already, I'm still working my way through all 30+ threads. So please, bear with me.

1. So it's possible she died in the apt, and her body could be moved from the apt into the garage with no cameras. Now is it conceivable that at some point, a car leaving garage would not be caught on camera moving through Bloomington? As in if someone placed her body in the trunk and left the apt, would a camera eventually capture the car somewhere on the streets?

2. How much credence, if any, was given to stranger abduction? That would be one hell of a coincidence that after all that happened to LS that night, she is somehow on her way home, and she encounters an abductor. Still, it's possible, I suppose.

3. Does anyone actually know how deep her friends/bf/associates were in the drug game? Were they small-time dealers or actually moving some weight, enough weight to have some connections that could help with disposing of a body?

4. Does anyone believe she was transported out of state either early in the morning or next day and disposed of along a highway somewhere, either somewhere in Indiana, or between Indiana and NY?

1. I would imagine the car would've been on tape. At that point those last seen with her would not have had anyone watching them/any suspicions, and if one of them decided to drive back home or for a road trip, whats unusual about him bringing a duffel bag or suitcase to his car...
2. Some thought it was stranger for a while, especially after that video of the white truck was released. I don't think many feel that way anymore.
3. Not sure
4. BINGO

 

[parttimesleuther]

"Hypothetically speaking"...Lauren had been drinking, reportedly fell several times, including hitting her head. She is up at someone's apartment, where something goes wrong either from the falls and/or alcohol and/or drugs and/or heart condition. Those with her panic, because they don't want to be in trouble. Next morning one of them takes a long road trip passing by many bodies of water and secluded areas...Lauren is reported missing, all those last seen with her lawyer up right away before even being named POIs. Rather than search for a friend who is "missing", get a lawyer :thinking:
**That's assuming there were not more sinister intentions, which I don't necessarily believe

 

[OldSteve]

My thoughts are still bothered by the amount of construction in progress at the time.

Yes, and now that so much time has past IMO the simplest (Occam Razor) explanation is that she fell into an open construction pit and that was it...

 

[jamicat]

am new to this forum, though I have been following this case since Lauren was reported missing. I live near her parents,and know many kids throughout the year who went to IU. Many of them lived in the very buildings that Lauren and the others mentioned in this tragedy frequented and were homes to them.

My heart goes out to the Spierers. The pain of losing ones child is something that does not go away. I can understand why they are furious, outraged at how those men did not take any care of their daughter that horrible night. Yes, it is possible that she died or was killed by any of them, and they did dispose of the body, and it's very likely they are not telling the full story of what they were doing that night. From what I have heard, from those who went to school there, it's not unusual for students to drink and use recreational drugs to the point that they are totally blitzed out, and their recall of what happened that night is probably compromised, and there were likely activities that were done that would not give any clue to Lauren's whereabouts but could result in a great chance of their getting sued or prosecuted for illegal activities. No lawyer in the right mind would tell their clients in such a situation to spill it all out, as it would not help finding Lauren to admit to giving her drugs/alcohol and imbibing as well. As it is, two of the POIs are being sued, but they do not have any record of saying they did anything that is going to make it easy for the Spierers to win their suit. For all the evidence there, no one can be pinpointed in giving Lauren the drugs/alcohol, other than what she got at the bar herself with her fake id.

It is entirely possible that what the POIs are saying is the truth. CR's path to his apt has pretty much been documented by camera and by his roommate and JR;s testimony. That he was in bad shape seems to be apparent. Doubt JR would take the last person seeing Lauren status if he could have pulled MB and CR into the scene; these are not noble gentlemen in the least. Doubt JR knew that the camera's along the road that Lauren was supposed to have taken were not working or not focused on her path. It was a bad piece of luck that they were not.

IMO, it was no random stranger that picked up Lauren, but someone who knew her, maybe not as well as the POIs and other friends, but someone who knew her from sight and she may well have hopped into their vehicle, glad for the ride home, being barefoot and tired. From there, she could have gone to their place, gone anywhere with them instead of going home, could have imbibed in more drugs, been done what ever, and then her heart quit on her leaving those people who aren't even on the radar stuck with a body that they disposed of. Or just one person in a car. Had the LE checked every single camera anywhere in that area and gone after every vehicle within a radius of where she was last supposedly seen, they would have gotten a list of people in cars, out there at the crazy time in the morning, and had some leads to follow instead of just pounding on the POIs when there isn't much else to get from them. Though there were no cameras on that road that caught anything, there might have been several roads over that caught some activity, away from all of this that was happening. I think someone, in that university community picked her up and ended up with an unconscious body, got scared and ditched it somewhere, maybe far away--might have gone a couple hours to ditch it, and is not on the radar of LE or anyone and so has been lying low. Too late now to check those cameras.

When that little boy disappeared in Brooklyn, walking home from school, it was not the LE who found out who took him, but some citizens that took the initiative to collect the footage of every single camera they could along the possible paths and sit there and look at all of that footage until he showed up on one of them, and one could clearly see what happened. A grisly, grotesque scenario that no one would have predicted, but the boy being apprached and getting into that car was caught before that footage was taped over. Unfortunately, no one did this for the Spierers and the thought of doing this did not occur to anyone.

If such a thing did happen, doubt if anyone so involved is going to report anything for fear that any trace of them is left on whatever is left of Lauren, or she could have been put somewhere like a lake where the body is not likely to be found anyways. Such a person, people, would not find it in their best interest to breathe a word, drop a line or anything. What possible good would it be for them? Could ruin their lives as the Spierers have been hurt. I randomly asked some young people what they would do in such a case, and about half responded that they would have reported it, which is frightening response, to me. And that's if they did no harm and she just passed out on her own and died. Had they given her drugs or done her deliberate harm, I would guess the % would have been lower yet. Think about it, you pick up a young woman, share your drugs with her and she dies on you. No one around to have seen her getting in your car. You are not in the picture at all. What would someone do like that--would not have known she had already been taking drugs, had a heart condition, etc before she ran into you.

For some closure, I hope that she is found. Preferably alive, but if not, so that she can be put to rest by her loving parents

 

[akh]

3. Does anyone actually know how deep her friends/bf/associates were in the drug game? Were they small-time dealers or actually moving some weight, enough weight to have some connections that could help with disposing of a body?

I've heard this scenario mentioned before and it just strikes me as a "Made for TV" scenario. Not something that would happen in reality. Assuming it's true and any of these people were drug dealers it would be a stretch to think they were anything more than small time overall. Probably several times removed from the actual top of the chain. Why would any drug dealer want to get involved in a murder or body disposal when they would otherwise not be involved? They just want to sell drugs, not get tied into some missing person, body disposal, murder, etc. scenario. They are trying to stay off the legal radar in the first place. And if they are caught certainly want to minimize what they'd actually go to trial for.

Losing a couple small time dealers that are moving 'product' for them because they got mixed up into something would IMO be a cost of doing business and not something that would cause them to get involved in someone else's problem. If anything it would be more of a reason for them just to cut bait and say "I don't know you. You are nobody to me. Don't ever call again".

I think the risk to them would be far more by getting involved than worrying about eventually being tied in as suppliers.

If we're talking at an upper level and it bringing down a multi-million dollar drug empire, then maybe the scenario would play out. But I'd think these guys would be far, far removed from the actual drug empire, if they were even connected at all. The 'empire' would have no problem just cutting them lose. They would be gnats that are easy to replace.

That said, doing the dirty work themselves to maintain their part of the pie and not risk their lifeline to their part of their supply connection, sure. I could see that. But then we're back to discussing if these guys would and could really do something like this successfully and maintain the ruse. But I don't see anyone above them being willing to involve themselves. Too much risk and no real value in the reward.

 

[jamicat]

From what I have heard, there was a lot of drug use among the students. Lauren not excepted. The private detective that the Spierers hired pretty much summed that up. And it's typical of a lot of colleges. It does not seem to be likely that this was some drug lord venture. I thiink the police, the pi, the Spierers and most students think that the odds are for this involving someone in the community, probably someone who knew Lauren. The focus and the heat has been on the three POIs, and JW, because the POIs were the last to have seen Lauren by their own admissions, and JW is the boyfriends, and the way it often works out, is that one of those two categories has the perp in it. The big, bad stranger swooping in and snatching up the person does not usually happen. It does, but statistically, the chances are small.

But this is a university community, and though a big university, that whole area is quite small, and anyone living there gets a familiarity to others in that neigbhorhood. There is a lot of traffic around there with students, former students, hanger ons, townies. It certainly is a possibility that someone was cruising down that road that Lauren was taking home, in accordance to what JR has said, and picked her up. I don't mean kidnapped her, just stopped the car, and in she hopped. Could have been someone she knew, or just looked familiar. Or maybe someone with a history that just could not afford to have a corpse on his hands if she died when with the person. Could have done something nefarious, or just shared the final straw in terms of that night/morning's drugs that her heart could take, and she died. No one saw them, it was in that empty time of the mornings, so off the person went and ditched to body, an hour or so away. No cameras there; his/her good fortune--there could have been a female involved as well, and it might have been a scary time when everyone was looking and the cameras were all examined, but Bloomington LE did not go far enough, and the Spierers did not think of it. Unlike in the Leiby Kitky case where civilians took it upon themselves to ask for every bit of film footage they could get and sit and watch in real time. I think in the current case of Hannah Elizabeth Graham, the police have grabbed all the cameras out there, and are hopeful one of them got footage of what happened to her. It takes a long time as every bit of film has to be carefully watched, and the quality is often poor; easy to miss something. In the Spierer case, every single camera within a mile of JR's place should have been gotten and watched, and every single car or traceable person investigated. They could have done it, most of it anyways, had it occurred to them, but they did not. There was not that much traffic at that time of the morning. If every car that passed the cameras were accounted for, then an investigation of every single inhabitant within that block needed to be done, because it then meant she entered someone's place in that short distance. Also any cars that could have gone down the street where JR lived should have been noted between the time of the disappearance and until JR and the other POI's places were searched. With the money the Spierers put into the investigation and were willing to spend, this could have been done. It would have taken time, but we'd have more info now if it had been done, but the film was all recycled before anyone ever thought to do this, if ever they did. Most of these cameras record on top of themselves within a few days. The footage is not kept for perpetuity.

Those young men are not likely to be in any big time crime. They seem to me to be typical, selfish college students, spoiled and creatures of comfort, just as Lauren was. They were too out of it, too tired to bother with her and I'm sure that brings out the primal rage in Rob Spierer. The very idea of his sweet baby girl just left ot wander out there when she was in bad shape, barefooted. Not to mention the whole idea of a young woman among all of those males that night does not lead to any savory thoughts. There could have been a lot that happened, but IMO the bottom line is how she disappeared from that last place where she could be located. I do not believe that the three men would cover for each other to this extnet. What they are saying has a simplictity to it that makes me believe that the basic outline of what they said happened was true, though what's in that outline might well be some sordid activities that will never be disclosed, drugs, maybe sex, drinking, who knows? But she might well have left and turned that corner as JR said she did and meet up by some others equally in that state. That whole street was not covered by surveillance cameras, so anything could have happened there.

i don't think that the Spierers suit is going to shed any more light on what happened. The two men are simply going to stick to their stories and deny giving Lauren any contraband, CR is going to swear he doesn't remember a thing or his memories are to garbled and mixed with other nights to make any sense. JR is going say he was half asleep, and LS seemed to him to be quite able to leave and to try to detain a young woman in one's place against her will would have been an issue, especially if he was under influence himself. Where's any proof to the contrary? I think the Spierers are so furious about their helplessness and the futility of all of this that they are striking out at the only ones they can pinpoint as possibly responsible. Those two men truly showed no concern, did not care, were terribly irresponsible that night, and as a result, Lauren disappeared. Had they had a shred of decency, concern, this would not have happened. They did not call campus security or the police or Lauren's roommates.

CR seemed to have been under the double whammy of having drunk too much and also being punched; might have also imbibed in some durgs as well . It makes sense to me that he went home, threw up and went to bed, and his roommate's story fits. All perfectly reasonable. I see no proof to charge these men for anything. Boo to them for their lack of chivalry, concern and selfishness, but nothing criminal IMO. I see nothing deep and intrepid about any of the bunch. Very typical of many well to do college kids enjoying the blow out the brains culture of college.

 

[monkey222]

I see TonyGatto is curently posting on Hannah (missing UVA student) thread. Post 252.
Welcome.

 

[Ixchel13]

From what I have heard, there was a lot of drug use among the students. Lauren not excepted. The private detective that the Spierers hired pretty much summed that up. And it's typical of a lot of colleges. It does not seem to be likely that this was some drug lord venture. I thiink the police, the pi, the Spierers and most students think that the odds are for this involving someone in the community, probably someone who knew Lauren. The focus and the heat has been on the three POIs, and JW, because the POIs were the last to have seen Lauren by their own admissions, and JW is the boyfriends, and the way it often works out, is that one of those two categories has the perp in it. The big, bad stranger swooping in and snatching up the person does not usually happen. It does, but statistically, the chances are small.

But this is a university community, and though a big university, that whole area is quite small, and anyone living there gets a familiarity to others in that neigbhorhood. There is a lot of traffic around there with students, former students, hanger ons, townies. It certainly is a possibility that someone was cruising down that road that Lauren was taking home, in accordance to what JR has said, and picked her up. I don't mean kidnapped her, just stopped the car, and in she hopped. Could have been someone she knew, or just looked familiar. Or maybe someone with a history that just could not afford to have a corpse on his hands if she died when with the person. Could have done something nefarious, or just shared the final straw in terms of that night/morning's drugs that her heart could take, and she died. No one saw them, it was in that empty time of the mornings, so off the person went and ditched to body, an hour or so away. No cameras there; his/her good fortune--there could have been a female involved as well, and it might have been a scary time when everyone was looking and the cameras were all examined, but Bloomington LE did not go far enough, and the Spierers did not think of it. Unlike in the Leiby Kitky case where civilians took it upon themselves to ask for every bit of film footage they could get and sit and watch in real time. I think in the current case of Hannah Elizabeth Graham, the police have grabbed all the cameras out there, and are hopeful one of them got footage of what happened to her. It takes a long time as every bit of film has to be carefully watched, and the quality is often poor; easy to miss something. In the Spierer case, every single camera within a mile of JR's place should have been gotten and watched, and every single car or traceable person investigated. They could have done it, most of it anyways, had it occurred to them, but they did not. There was not that much traffic at that time of the morning. If every car that passed the cameras were accounted for, then an investigation of every single inhabitant within that block needed to be done, because it then meant she entered someone's place in that short distance. Also any cars that could have gone down the street where JR lived should have been noted between the time of the disappearance and until JR and the other POI's places were searched. With the money the Spierers put into the investigation and were willing to spend, this could have been done. It would have taken time, but we'd have more info now if it had been done, but the film was all recycled before anyone ever thought to do this, if ever they did. Most of these cameras record on top of themselves within a few days. The footage is not kept for perpetuity.

Those young men are not likely to be in any big time crime. They seem to me to be typical, selfish college students, spoiled and creatures of comfort, just as Lauren was. They were too out of it, too tired to bother with her and I'm sure that brings out the primal rage in Rob Spierer. The very idea of his sweet baby girl just left ot wander out there when she was in bad shape, barefooted. Not to mention the whole idea of a young woman among all of those males that night does not lead to any savory thoughts. There could have been a lot that happened, but IMO the bottom line is how she disappeared from that last place where she could be located. I do not believe that the three men would cover for each other to this extnet. What they are saying has a simplictity to it that makes me believe that the basic outline of what they said happened was true, though what's in that outline might well be some sordid activities that will never be disclosed, drugs, maybe sex, drinking, who knows? But she might well have left and turned that corner as JR said she did and meet up by some others equally in that state. That whole street was not covered by surveillance cameras, so anything could have happened there.

i don't think that the Spierers suit is going to shed any more light on what happened. The two men are simply going to stick to their stories and deny giving Lauren any contraband, CR is going to swear he doesn't remember a thing or his memories are to garbled and mixed with other nights to make any sense. JR is going say he was half asleep, and LS seemed to him to be quite able to leave and to try to detain a young woman in one's place against her will would have been an issue, especially if he was under influence himself. Where's any proof to the contrary? I think the Spierers are so furious about their helplessness and the futility of all of this that they are striking out at the only ones they can pinpoint as possibly responsible. Those two men truly showed no concern, did not care, were terribly irresponsible that night, and as a result, Lauren disappeared. Had they had a shred of decency, concern, this would not have happened. They did not call campus security or the police or Lauren's roommates.

CR seemed to have been under the double whammy of having drunk too much and also being punched; might have also imbibed in some durgs as well . It makes sense to me that he went home, threw up and went to bed, and his roommate's story fits. All perfectly reasonable. I see no proof to charge these men for anything. Boo to them for their lack of chivalry, concern and selfishness, but nothing criminal IMO. I see nothing deep and intrepid about any of the bunch. Very typical of many well to do college kids enjoying the blow out the brains culture of college.

BBM that's the kind of unassailable storyline you get when you pay for all that lawyering up.

your scenario could well be true. The idea that BPD didn't look at the footage soon enough may not be true, however. IMO, it is the idea that they did look at footage, saw several of the characters of the evening from various parties we know of out and about,
including the bf who said he was home asleep. Not being able to charge them for being out on the street, perfectly legal, after the first attempt at questioning them about their whereabouts, their attorney most likely advised the LE that their client would not be available again for such unless formal charges were filed, i.e., arrest. Being seen abducting a child on tape + being seen driving in your car=2 different things.
Welcome to WS. Your post was excellent. I get what you're saying about there's nothing "in it" for anyone to come forward. But, hiding a body is a crime. Whether or not it's just the way it is that all these college "kids" do drugs, if they did this to Lauren,
they should have called her parents or the anonymous tip line. Because now this person{s} is committing an atrocious crime against Lauren's family. Even at the very beginning the Spierers said they just wanted an anonymous tip and even went as far as to imply they understood something could have just gone horribly wrong.
the random, and as you say, not-so-random idea has always nagged me. Unless someone is being stalked, I would imagine most of this type of abduction happens within seconds and always is a weird coincidence of being in just the most wrong place at the exact bad time, like Mickey Shunick. Using just her case, we know this does in fact happen, even with said statistics.

 

[Jmoose]

From what I have heard, there was a lot of drug use among the students. Lauren not excepted. The private detective that the Spierers hired pretty much summed that up. And it's typical of a lot of colleges. It does not seem to be likely that this was some drug lord venture. I thiink the police, the pi, the Spierers and most students think that the odds are for this involving someone in the community, probably someone who knew Lauren. The focus and the heat has been on the three POIs, and JW, because the POIs were the last to have seen Lauren by their own admissions, and JW is the boyfriends, and the way it often works out, is that one of those two categories has the perp in it. The big, bad stranger swooping in and snatching up the person does not usually happen. It does, but statistically, the chances are small.

But this is a university community, and though a big university, that whole area is quite small, and anyone living there gets a familiarity to others in that neigbhorhood. There is a lot of traffic around there with students, former students, hanger ons, townies. It certainly is a possibility that someone was cruising down that road that Lauren was taking home, in accordance to what JR has said, and picked her up. I don't mean kidnapped her, just stopped the car, and in she hopped. Could have been someone she knew, or just looked familiar. Or maybe someone with a history that just could not afford to have a corpse on his hands if she died when with the person. Could have done something nefarious, or just shared the final straw in terms of that night/morning's drugs that her heart could take, and she died. No one saw them, it was in that empty time of the mornings, so off the person went and ditched to body, an hour or so away. No cameras there; his/her good fortune--there could have been a female involved as well, and it might have been a scary time when everyone was looking and the cameras were all examined, but Bloomington LE did not go far enough, and the Spierers did not think of it. Unlike in the Leiby Kitky case where civilians took it upon themselves to ask for every bit of film footage they could get and sit and watch in real time. I think in the current case of Hannah Elizabeth Graham, the police have grabbed all the cameras out there, and are hopeful one of them got footage of what happened to her. It takes a long time as every bit of film has to be carefully watched, and the quality is often poor; easy to miss something. In the Spierer case, every single camera within a mile of JR's place should have been gotten and watched, and every single car or traceable person investigated. They could have done it, most of it anyways, had it occurred to them, but they did not. There was not that much traffic at that time of the morning. If every car that passed the cameras were accounted for, then an investigation of every single inhabitant within that block needed to be done, because it then meant she entered someone's place in that short distance. Also any cars that could have gone down the street where JR lived should have been noted between the time of the disappearance and until JR and the other POI's places were searched. With the money the Spierers put into the investigation and were willing to spend, this could have been done. It would have taken time, but we'd have more info now if it had been done, but the film was all recycled before anyone ever thought to do this, if ever they did. Most of these cameras record on top of themselves within a few days. The footage is not kept for perpetuity.

Those young men are not likely to be in any big time crime. They seem to me to be typical, selfish college students, spoiled and creatures of comfort, just as Lauren was. They were too out of it, too tired to bother with her and I'm sure that brings out the primal rage in Rob Spierer. The very idea of his sweet baby girl just left ot wander out there when she was in bad shape, barefooted. Not to mention the whole idea of a young woman among all of those males that night does not lead to any savory thoughts. There could have been a lot that happened, but IMO the bottom line is how she disappeared from that last place where she could be located. I do not believe that the three men would cover for each other to this extnet. What they are saying has a simplictity to it that makes me believe that the basic outline of what they said happened was true, though what's in that outline might well be some sordid activities that will never be disclosed, drugs, maybe sex, drinking, who knows? But she might well have left and turned that corner as JR said she did and meet up by some others equally in that state. That whole street was not covered by surveillance cameras, so anything could have happened there.

i don't think that the Spierers suit is going to shed any more light on what happened. The two men are simply going to stick to their stories and deny giving Lauren any contraband, CR is going to swear he doesn't remember a thing or his memories are to garbled and mixed with other nights to make any sense. JR is going say he was half asleep, and LS seemed to him to be quite able to leave and to try to detain a young woman in one's place against her will would have been an issue, especially if he was under influence himself. Where's any proof to the contrary? I think the Spierers are so furious about their helplessness and the futility of all of this that they are striking out at the only ones they can pinpoint as possibly responsible. Those two men truly showed no concern, did not care, were terribly irresponsible that night, and as a result, Lauren disappeared. Had they had a shred of decency, concern, this would not have happened. They did not call campus security or the police or Lauren's roommates.

CR seemed to have been under the double whammy of having drunk too much and also being punched; might have also imbibed in some durgs as well . It makes sense to me that he went home, threw up and went to bed, and his roommate's story fits. All perfectly reasonable. I see no proof to charge these men for anything. Boo to them for their lack of chivalry, concern and selfishness, but nothing criminal IMO. I see nothing deep and intrepid about any of the bunch. Very typical of many well to do college kids enjoying the blow out the brains culture of college.

A very thoughtful and articulate post. I am not quite sure that I entirely agree with the bolded sentence, because there might be some other stuff these boys might be covering for (drug sales, gang rape, etc). And since it appears that there will be no charges of any kind in absence of a body, none of those boys have to say a word; they can just keep doing what they're doing. They might be responsible only for getting rid of a body, for which they feel no culpability (Lauren may well have been known for risky drug behavior), but I'm sure that these boys don't want drug-selling, gang-raping or body-disposing charges to screw up their perfect selfish lives and professions. Better for them if it stays ambiguous, and I'm certain they couldn't care less about the Spierers; after all, their daughter is the reason for all of the trouble they are potentially looking at.

 

[Ixchel13]

A very thoughtful and articulate post. I am not quite sure that I entirely agree with the bolded sentence, because there might be some other stuff these boys might be covering for (drug sales, gang rape, etc). And since it appears that there will be no charges of any kind in absence of a body, none of those boys have to say a word; they can just keep doing what they're doing. They might be responsible only for getting rid of a body, for which they feel no culpability (Lauren may well have been known for risky drug behavior), but I'm sure that these boys don't want drug-selling, gang-raping or body-disposing charges to screw up their perfect selfish lives and professions. Better for them if it stays ambiguous, and I'm certain they couldn't care less about the Spierers; after all, their daughter is the reason for all of the trouble they are potentially looking at.

BBM If they sold her the drugs, and disposed of her body, they are indeed responsible for every bit of it.
This whole culture of "not my fault" when it comes to over excesses of drugs and alcohol, resulting in death, is just a bunch of b.s. It is indeed Kilroys' fault for serving a minor who then mixed the drugs with alcohol. It is indeed the drug dealers ENTIRE fault if they sold someone drugs who then mixed them with alcohol and died!
If you douse someone with alcohol, you can't say it's not your fault when someone lights a match.
This whole thing about kids will be kids and the tragic choices they make...it's obviously a different ball game out there then it was a decade ago and when will the word get out that they are TOTALLY responsible for what they do, every time they do it?
Drug abuse and binge drinking at IU has not changed a whit since Lauren disappeared. Along with all the date rape and alcohol bingeing education and awareness programs (and they are totally necessary) should also be the criminality awareness education of what they're doing. If they have a friend who is high and drunk and they sell them more, leave them to die, etc, they need to be punished, and punished severely.
They are looking at all this trouble because they are troublemakers. if Lauren was also doing this type of thing, the difference is that she is dead. If it were HT missing instead of Lauren, we might be talking about LS but we're not. If that is their burden for surviving and lawyering it up, society needs to be reassured that people own up to what they do and cause, not hide behind their tarnished youthful images.

 

[CoolJ]

I think LE has way more video available than has been released or mentioned. Too many camera's around those parts. They saw something else happen that night... But need just "one more piece of evidence" to put it all together. I think that white truck will come back into play in this story in one way or another. LE ain't dumb, although they play the part well. JMO

 

[jamicat]

Thanks for the warm welcome, Ixchel and others. This case has bothered me from the beginning. The big problem here is that the simplest scenario and most likely on a statistical basis is that Lauren died in JR's apartment, and her body was disposed of. The problem is that there is not a shred of evidence that this happened. Is it possible? Absolutely. With no cameras catching anything along that street and the one that she allegedly went up, it is entirely possible that there was some car available that JR, alone, or with others used to just take her and dump her body somewhere. That the body was not found doesn't mean much. In the Casey Anthony case, little Kaylee's body was not found for a year, and when it was, it was a mile from the parents' home. LE and the search teams could have missed Lauren's body. The garbage pick up could have gotten her--I never could get it clear whether there was pick up at that time, and the search of the dump and land fills could simply have missed her. All very possible. The margins for error are sufficient for any for the scenario to be possible. The problem, however, is that it's only one of a number of possibilities, and you cannot accuse someone of something like this without adequate evidence. A lot more evidence.

It's still possible that Lauren is alive. Doubt it, but yes, it's possible. Not a sign of her death. She could also have been picked up by anyone, not necessarily abducted but willingly gone with anyone Could have gone to another apartment. Could have gotten into a car. And then anything could have happened from there. There are too many other possibilities that very easily could have happened to blame JR. He could well be telling the truth.

As for any of the young men refusing to take theofficial lie detector tests, there isn't a defense attorney around that would recommend them taking it. The down side is too problematic and the up side is just not there. Doubt the Spierers would have let their daughter take one in the same situation. Bear in mind that the families of these POIs and the SPierers are very similiar in many, many ways. Would not be surprised if Lauren had problems with the law and the Spieres lawyered her up . They don't want things brought out about her, and there is probably good reason for that. Those police tests are not that accurate. Also had Lauren's body been found with contraband in it, and the POIs admitted to giving her any of the stuff, they could be sued and likely be found liable for her death, whether they were the last ones to have seen her or not. I doubt that either JR or CR will be admitting to giving Lauren anything in the suit Lauren's parents have filed against them.

 

[akh]

The big problem here is that the simplest scenario and most likely on a statistical basis is that Lauren died in JR's apartment, and her body was disposed of

Excellent analysis overall. That said, I'm not even sure I'd be able to say the above is true... Statistically it's the boyfriend/husband in cases like these and there's simply not been enough public info to take him out of the equation. And some reasons to include him. So the fact that she was known to be with others muddies the statistics but, everybody is always with somebody else at some point prior to something happening to them. It doesn't have to be the last known person, as you've pointed out.

Back to your point, and is what I've said before- For the most popular scenario- something happening at 5N and then body disposal- LE had a 'ground zero' to look for forensic evidence that would be part of that scenario. Either they didn't find it, or it was inconclusive, or is still lacking a piece of the puzzle. But, from the outside looking in, we have no way of knowing which answer is correct. ...Other than to know if anything was found, it wasn't enough for LE to act upon to make a case or use as leverage.