Interesting ...

[tipper]

They verified the acute sexual injury. I've never read anything from either as to their opinions on the theory of chronic abuse. Beuf saw her on a regular basis and didn't believe she was a victim of chronic abuse.

 

[sissi]

There were no injuries noted in the autopsy to suggest prior molestation, not one area of "healing". We do all have our opinions, but this fact clearly points to this night, the night she was murdered , as her first victimization.IMO

It does ring of cover up, we have all probably given this some consideration, but does the cover up have to include the Ramseys?

If , just as an example, a drunken Merv went over and kidnapped her, accidentally killed her, wouldn't returning her lessen the chances of a search warrant for their home? Would this apply to anyone, Stanton's twins, Santa, Myer, just about anyone that "knew" they would fair out better by returning her.
I can not see anything that points to these parents as killers, I can not see anything to indicate they are covering for anyone either. When I hear their words I hear truth, sadness, and post traumatic confusion.

 

[tipper]

Found this at Sundance.

PMPT pg 306

The FBI believed that JonBenet's vaginal trauma was not consistent with a history of sexual abuse, and they had turned up no evidence of any other type of abuse.
PMPT pg 432-33, 437
Dr. Werner Spitz was a consultant to the BPD

"Spitz examined the four slides of tissue taken from JonBenet's vaginal area . . . After viewing the slides, Spitz repeated his opinion: the injury to JonBenet's vagina had happened either at or immediately prior to her death--not earlier."

 

[tipper]

Good question about why he wasn't thoroughly investigated. And why Schiller is apparently helping to coverup his very existence by leaving him out of PMPT. To find out more you can Google his name, Nathan Inouye.

Why wasn't LHP's son-in-law investigated? He had access to keys, knew where the wine cellar was (had been in it recently), could have heard about the previous year's bonus amount, could have known the Ramsey's Christmas plans. he's the right age and sex to be committing a crime like this.

 

[sissi]

Why wasn't LHP's son-in-law investigated? He had access to keys, knew where the wine cellar was (had been in it recently), could have heard about the previous year's bonus amount, could have known the Ramsey's Christmas plans. he's the right age and sex to be committing a crime like this.

Can we guess for the same reason no suspects were looked at carefully during those first weeks. It wasn't until the BPD started gettting a little "heat" for not investigating that they began taking their "cursory" looks at possible suspects. I remember one, the Prophet, was FIRST investigated in January of '98 , one year after his name had been turned over to the police as a person of interest. Those "cops" thought they knew who did it, they had gut feelings ,afterall. They closed the case in their minds, allowing a killer to "get a huge head start".

 

[MissMommie]

Since girls are starting their periods younger than they did 20 to 30 years ago, wouldn't it stand to reason that boys start ejaculating semenal fluid at a younger age as well? I know the semen is JAR's but this was just a thought. See page 2 of this thread.

 

[narlacat]

>>I can not see anything that points to these parents as killers, I can not see anything to indicate they are covering for anyone either. When I hear their words I hear truth, sadness, and post traumatic confusion.<<

Sissi
I dont know who killed JonBenet and I would like to think it wasnt one of her family, but they have definelty acted suspiciously re: JonBenet's death. I dont see how you cant see that. They acted suspicious right from the start. They did everything the RN said not to. They let their only remaining child out of their sight after their daughter had been brutally murdered in their own home. They arranged to leave the state just hours after JonBenet's body was found.
Isn't any of that suspicious to you at all?

 

[Rupert]

UKGuy,

I don't know about movies, but NI's favorite book was apparently "Walk Good", written by Roland Reimer about his experiences in Negril, Jamaica. NI served in the Peace Corps at Kingston, Jamaica from 1999 to 2001 and, as a comment to his fellow Peace Corps volunteers, on the internet he wrote just two words "Walk Good". Reimer's book "Walk Good" takes the reader deep into the island including the notorious adult-only "Hedonism Resort". Hedonism is the psychological belief that only pain and pleasure motivate people.

BlueCrab

I don't know about his movies either, but part of all that movie business is Leopold and Loeb, Nathan Leopold that is, who was the smart (IQ 200?) but odd looking chap. Loeb was the handsome and bullish type. The two had a love pact, to be bound forever by the ultimate sin, murder. "We do respect your bussiness (kissiness?) but not the cuntry that it serves." If the murder was intentional, then the perp must have hated JonBenet. Ugh, coincidences are there if you look hard enough.

 

[duffy]

There were no injuries noted in the autopsy to suggest prior molestation, not one area of "healing". We do all have our opinions, but this fact clearly points to this night, the night she was murdered , as her first victimization.IMO

It does ring of cover up, we have all probably given this some consideration, but does the cover up have to include the Ramseys?

If , just as an example, a drunken Merv went over and kidnapped her, accidentally killed her, wouldn't returning her lessen the chances of a search warrant for their home? Would this apply to anyone, Stanton's twins, Santa, Myer, just about anyone that "knew" they would fair out better by returning her.
I can not see anything that points to these parents as killers, I can not see anything to indicate they are covering for anyone either. When I hear their words I hear truth, sadness, and post traumatic confusion.

sissi, I have read a lot of the interviews with the ramseys, LKL and some of the interviews with the cops and I think a lot of what they have said sounded good. It's when I start remembering what they have done since JonBenet's murder that I have to stop giving them the benefit of the doubt.

I have said time and again I don't blame them for obtaining a lawyer to help them with interviews etc with l.e. It's when they use the lawyers to avoid being questioned by l.e. that causes the major problem. The ramseys have brought this upon themselves as far as being under the umbrella of suspicion so I don't feel sorry for them. People who don't have anything to hide don't hide.

They have also lied quite a bit. They sound good but they just are not credible in any fashion.

 

[Camper]

Yes, indeed it coulda been anyone that did 'it' but.

Why would the oldest son offer forgiveness for the KILLER asap? It would appear that offering it so soon after the tiny girls death, was odd, to me at least. The killer was not yet apprehended, nor convicted, nor sitting in a prison cell getting old. Was it that the oldest son was the one in the family who had more religious belief than anyone in his family? IF this is so, then perhaps the SBTC has more meaning, and victory to boot. Odd, but speculation at best or, no one knows except perhaps the killer, nah, couldn't be could it?

Was the comment in the ransom note about southern common sense used when the older son was not allowed to do something or was it a continuing chastisment from his father as a young boy?

As far as the why on whether PR wrote the ransom note, to cover for a family member. The Ramseys had a lot to lose by NOT covering for a family member.

John had lost one of his grown daughters recently in a car accident, IF IF one of his two sons did 'it' not only had he already lost his darling baby girl, he would NOW also be losing another son. I can see PR covering for the killer and FOR John's collective loss of three children in short order.

John and Patsy, would lose their reputation and standing, which rather happened anyway, so there have been no victorious winners here.

IF IF it was another person who did 'it', they have not surfaced with other unsolved murder/s. Nor has anyone else been murdered that were also involved in the business that 'the' killer had a problem with. No kidnappings of anyone in America doing computer business[/] with an unfavored country, no three page ransom notes. :waitasec:

John himself said it was an 'inside' job. That also sounds like lingo from a who done it movie. "Yeah Mac, it looks like an inside job."

----------------
I would doubt that zero of the Ramsey family acquaintances over time are not reading here.

I would ask IF there is anyone reading who knows what the oldest son is presently doing without naming specific information, if they would just tell us HOW he is doing and what type of daily work he might be doing. Does he attend church, or did he attend church as a young man in Boulder, on his own.

IF indeed there is a real perp somewhere, we cannot discount that either.


.

 

[BlueCrab]

"Spitz examined the four slides of tissue taken from JonBenet's vaginal area . . . After viewing the slides, Spitz repeated his opinion: the injury to JonBenet's vagina had happened either at or immediately prior to her death--not earlier."

tipper,

Spitz was talking exclusively about the acute injuries at that time, not the chronic injuries.

 

[simplesimon]

I am puzzled why Jon Benet's hair was styled that way.Also what was the reason given for Burke's knife and shoeprint to be in that area

 

[aussiesheila]

My head just had a minor explosion, huh.

You slipped off the slippery deck when you included PR in that scenario. Why would ANY MOTHER participate in a colusion like that?

:behindbar:

Camper,

you ask Why would ANY MOTHER participate in a colusion like that?

I think that if there was a mother who happened to be a seriously disturbed person, for whatever reason, and she knew that her daughter had been sexually abused over a number of years by people who called themselves her friends, and then her daughter was accidentally killed during one of these abusive events, then I think she could participate in a collusion like that. I can imagine that she might prefer her daughter's body to be lost and never found in an apparent kidnapping, rather than have the world know what had really happened.

 

[aussiesheila]

to people who keep saying there is no evidence of previous abuse, haven't you read the autopsy report?


From the Autopsy report:

“Vaginal Mucosa: All of the sections contain vascular congestion and focal interstitial chronic inflammation.”



'chronic' - continuing for a long time, constantly recurring

 

[BlueCrab]

Also what was the reason given for Burke's knife and shoeprint to be in that area

simplesimon,

There were no valid Ramsey explanations that I am aware of.

I do know the Ramseys all lied about the Hi-Tec boots, the logo imprint of which was found just one foot away from JonBenet's body in the basement. The Ramseys denied anyone in the family had ever owned Hi-Tecs until it was uncovered that Patsy had bought Burke a pair of Hi-Tec hiking boots, with a compass built right into the boot, during a shopping trip while visiting Atlanta. Fleet White III reportedly told this to the grand jury, and Burke Ramsey also admitted to the jurors he owned the boots.

After being caught in the lies, the Ramseys pleaded the usual -- amnesia. However, how can anyone forget a unique pair of hiking boots with a compass built into them? You can't.

BlueCrab

 

[aussiesheila]

to people who believe the paediatrician who claimed he saw absolutely no evidence of JonBenet having been sexually abused

have you ever considered that he might actually be lying?

 

[tipper]

Yes, and I think the odds of it are so small as to be non-existent. Nor do I think the Ramseys paid off respected professionals who have devoted their careers to helping crime victims.

 

[why_nutt]

I do know the Ramseys all lied about the Hi-Tec boots, the logo imprint of which was found just one foot away from JonBenet's body in the basement. The Ramseys denied anyone in the family had ever owned Hi-Tecs until it was uncovered that Patsy had bought Burke a pair of Hi-Tec hiking boots, with a compass built right into the boot, during a shopping trip while visiting Atlanta. Fleet White III reportedly told this to the grand jury, and Burke Ramsey also admitted to the jurors he owned the boots.

After being caught in the lies, the Ramseys pleaded the usual -- amnesia. However, how can anyone forget a unique pair of hiking boots with a compass built into them? You can't.

BlueCrab

I used to think this was a matter of dispute, but an old newspaper article revealed that it must be true: as part of a special promotional event, Hi-Tec created a specific children's boot, with compasses attached to the laces. I used to wonder, why on earth would anyone even contemplate putting compasses on the laces, when there is no practical reason for a hiker to want to remove their shoes in order to look at the compass? It becomes clear that the compasses were simply decorative and were not meant for ordinary practical use, and were also not meant to be used by real adult hikers. Here is that article, from July 29, 1991. (One more note is that while the article is from 1991, the shoe was not released at that time. It was not released until much later in the year, well after retailers had had time to place their orders based on customer interest in the promotional materials, and late enough for Burke and family to have moved from Georgia to Colorado as they did in 1991):

Hi-Tec Sports will launch hikers promo.

MODESTO, Calif. - Hi-Tec Sports USA will step up the marketing of its new children's outdoor hiking boot with an incentive campaign centered around the 500th anniversary of Columbus' voyage to the New World.

The company plans to offer posters, stickers and other amenities as part of a Navigators' Club that children can join when they purchase an item in the new Navigators' series.

Hi-Tec unveiled an outdoor boot called the Columbus as part of the series. The shoe features a compass tied to the laces. It comes in mochaspruce and navy, priced to retail at $44.95.

Hi-Tec will coordinate the club membership in Modesto and will send promotional posters with new orders. Details of the promotion will be offered to children in product boxes.

David Pompel, marketing manager, said he expects the promotion to spur children's sales. He reported company-wide sales for Hi-Tec should grow by 60 percent this year.

"When the kids get something in the box, they get excited," he said. Pompel added that Hi-Tec's rugged outdoor look is growing more popular as children focus on the environment.

"We're getting into department stores where the athletic look is dying. We try to make ties to positive values like recycling and the environment."

 

[BlueCrab]

to people who believe the paediatrician who claimed he saw absolutely no evidence of JonBenet having been sexually abused
have you ever considered that he might actually be lying?

Yes, Dr. Francesac Beuf, who was also a close friend of the family, was that pediatrician. Beuf never examined JonBenet internally, but made his comments based only on external examination and the behaviors he could see.

And it was Beuf who took that walk with Mike Bynum and John Ramsey while at the Fernie's house, when, IMO, the coverup was made a done deal.

I wonder why Beuf soon afterward left the pediatric business and went back to being a rocket scientist?

 

[why_nutt]

Hi-Tec unveiled an outdoor boot called the Columbus as part of the series. The shoe features a compass tied to the laces. It comes in mochaspruce and navy, priced to retail at $44.95.

I became curious as to what Hi-Tec would define as the color "mochaspruce," and found that the article might have left out a slash, as the picture below shows that Hi-Tec formerly sold a ladies' walkng boot, and the color is described as Mocha/Spruce, so for what it is worth, if Burke can be found in any pictures to be wearing a boot of these colors, then he is wearing Hi-Tec: