Interim discussion regarding questions from the jury and Arias on the stand #79

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It's an unfair world. :floorlaugh::p
I get pissed every time I see reality stars like Kim Kardashian making millions while I'm pulling all nighters in the library. :banghead::floorlaugh:

I wouldn't be Kim Karshian for all the tea in China. Just sayin'. :rocker:
 
Hope everyone has a good weekend. As usual, I will be Jodi-free- the better half gets mad at me for following this trial. Hopefully, No Jodi , no headaches for a few days. Hopefully, I can bust it at work Monday and Tuesdau, so I can listen on Wednesday.

Saw a poll at Wildabouttrials where 12 percent of the poll audience believes the story of
self defense and 88 percent thinks as we do -planned murder.

TGIF!!!

Hugs :hug: to you!!! Be strong and know you have lots of friends here!!
 
There are plenty of things to look at, including what's going on in my own mind.

I don't need to give attention or views to someone that nasty. The message is not worth patronizing that kind of offensive crawp.

Maybe more prudent advice would be to the video maker - stick to what you think are the facts and quit that kind of bullying. That's what it is, bullying someone who may have some issues, and I will NOT support it.

In fact I'll ask the moderators to take it down.

I appreciate your opinion, but if it offends you then just don't view it. The timeline really is worth a look IMO, but if the mods think it's out of line then it's their call.

I sure didn't mean to offend anyone. If I did then I apologize.
 
Adding a little to it...please correct me if I'm wrong peeps:

5/10/08 - Phone Sex
5/18/08 - Travis' Gold Digger/Axe Murderer Blog Post
5/26/08 - Sociopath Text & FB Direct Message (referenced as email in Text)
5/28/08 - Grandpa's Gun Stolen
5/31 or 6/1 - Ouchie at the Restaurant (or practicing w/my new gun)/Bloody Finger Pic
6/2-6/3/08 - Rent car, visit BF's of Christmas past, gas cans, SBux
6/4/08 - Murder
6/5/08 - Meet, grind & adjust new potential BF

Will try to find when she said she reported her phone *ahem* stolen.

I wonder if she tried tto blackmail T with the phone sex recording and that's part of the reason he wrote blog post.
 
Sorry, I left to pick up kids at school. I don't know if I will address your thoughts exactly, but I will try to share what I think. Psychopaths are very unique, no matter what the original cause. They do not feel empathy. They do not feel conscience. That is really hard for a normal person to wrap their brain around. I have literally seen a child watch another family member get terribly hurt and then start laughing and dancing as if excited. I literally had to tell this child that was not appropriate. The child was doing it because she wanted attention and knew that since the other child was hurt, the attention was going the other way. She felt she had to compete so she tried to be very cute and start dancing to get the attention back. It was not planned or prepared. It just was. From a young age, she had been taught that everything HAD to be about her or she was in danger.

When normal people see that type of thing, it enrages them. It provokes hate. They literally cannot imagine what would cause someone to "dance on the grave" of another person. We cannot project rational thinking on to someone who is not rational, but we do it anyway. We image the hate and rage they must feel to the person. The fact is - unless it currently impacts them - they are probably not thinking about it at all. (Ex: Ryan Burns just hours after killing TA. Even if it had been self defense, we would expect it to rock her world and it was not even on her radar.)

The reactions you are hearing on the board are what healthy people feel when faced with someone who is capable of committing such an extreme heinous act without any remorse or conscience. It was horrible to murder TA, but to do it and THEN have no remorse or conscience about calling him a pedophile, etc. is just incomprehensible to a normal person. I would even say it was healthy for people to be outraged.

It is also compounded because healthy people can feel and see the pain of TA's family. We can feel every emotion, cry with every tear. We literally carry some of that pain in us after seeing them. JA does not. Not judging. Just stating fact. She is absolutely oblivious to their pain - unless it benefits her. If it shows her she is winning, she can literally feed off of it and get joy from it. Again, I hope that as I write this that you don't hear judgement. I have seen this again and again.

The darkness people talk about in her eyes is real. For whatever reason, it is as if these people have dead souls. They are walking shells. No empathy. No conscience. No trust. Constant lying.

That's why you see the strong reactions. Kids I work with come that way. It is horrific to see what they can do - killing animals, hurting siblings, etc. without any remorse and, sometimes, with incredible joy. When you witness it, it is easy to feel extreme anger for the victims. Especially that, once they are caught, they continue to lie and justify.

Again, I keep wanting to point - no judgement. It is horrific. I tell you that we are all suffering worse than JA right now. We have more capacity to feel pain. Her hardest moment of the trial has been the brief moments where the jury does not believe her act. That takes the fun out - that means losing. The only fears she has are abandonment and not being special. TA hit the first. The jury just mortified her with the second.

I don't mean to ramble. If JA was murdered, we would have never seen this side of her.

The challenge in dealing with this every day - and many of my families do - is that anger, extreme anger, when you live with the constant lies, violence, and manipulation only feeds the disorder. In addition, the person to whom the anger is targeted, in this case, JA, is thrilled with the attention - positive or negative. So, if you hold on to the anger, you are making her feel better and making yourself feel consumed.

Not speaking about trial watchers, but people who live with it constantly. It is nerve wracking, no matter how much sympathy you have for how a person got there. It can be maddening to watch this type of individual in action. But, trust me, JA is flattered by any attention anyone gives her. Nothing on this board would offend her. She would be so pleased we all devoted so much of our lives to her -honestly.

I'm so glad to hear you explain it. I used to be the sort to give everyone the benefit of the doubt and to doubt the existence of really bad intentions in people in my life. I got my world turned upside down (PTSD) by a psychopath whom I loved very much at the time.

I do consider them as if they are a different species, but that's for my own safeguarding. I don't know how I feel about it really being a brain problem or something (it looks genetic in my criminal's case)... just stay away from me :(

More power to you for trying to stop the hideous problems that are caused! I do fear them, personally. It's the laughing about the pain that broke me wide open. Thank you so much for explaining it even as you give your heart to try to fix them.
 
I dont watch anything with jose baez. i think he is disgusting. i dont care if he was hosting the feed the children show. he wont get another second of my attention
 
Meds don't fix what she has anyway. she does have a chemical imbalance.....or at least one that we know of.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2

People with the level of Narcissism she has in her personality did not seek out mental health treatment because they do not believe they have any problem. Now they believe many other in their sphere of influence sure do!

They are very difficult to treat if, by chance, they are in a mental health facility or required to attend out patient appointments.

Her parents did the best they could do at the time during formative years. No parent is perfect nor do I believe they were "abusive". They have other children in the family who seem to have made it to young adulthood ok. So she is genetic malady. The parents just did not know it. I am sure they worried about her the most wondering what happen.
 
wrongful death does not outweigh capital murder....so yeah there is no reason to sue her for this unless for some odd reason she is aquitted.

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I don't understand what you mean. A good reason to sue her for wrongful death is to keep her from financially profiting from murder whether she's acquitted or not..
 
I'm still a little confused about the gas cans. If her goal was to avoid being detected while in arizona, why not just pay cash? even if there were security cameras, LE couldn't possibly check every minute of every tape from every gas station looking for her car, or her rental car.

and on a different matter, didn't she just change her story when she discusses getting the gun from the closet? I was pretty sure she went out of her way during cross to say she used only one hand. but for the jury she claimed to use both hands (one grabbed the lip of the shelf while the other grabbed the gun).

I noticed that too. When answering JM she said that she put her foot on the shelf and reached with a hand to the top shelf and got the gun without ever touching anything with her other hand. When answering the jury she said that her other hand touched the edge of a shelf. I'm sure that the jury caught this too.

moo
 
Here's a rough timeline of what happened leading up and just after the murder:

5/10/08 - Phone Sex
5/18/08 - Travis' Gold Digger/Axe Murderer Blog Post
5/26/08 - Sociopath Text & FB Direct Message (referenced as email in Text)
5/28/08 - Grandpa's Gun Stolen
6/2-6/3/08 - Rent car, visit BF's of Christmas past, gas cans, SBux
6/4/08 - Murder
6/5/08 - Meet, grind & adjust new potential BF

Can you add in her blog posts too? They're very strange in that they mirror his!
 
Has there ever been a discussion of the possibility that JA didn't color her hair, but rather wore a wig during the murder trip?
 
if you search the thread with your name and nothing comes up it means no one quoted you.

I can find people quoting my comments by going thru page by page...I have been quoted--i can see them, but cannot pull them up by the search.
 
I assume because "Travis said" would be hearsay.

Yet she is allowed to say 'Travis said' over and over and over......just makes me want to eat bugs!!! :furious:
 
Sorry, I left to pick up kids at school. I don't know if I will address your thoughts exactly, but I will try to share what I think. Psychopaths are very unique, no matter what the original cause. They do not feel empathy. They do not feel conscience. That is really hard for a normal person to wrap their brain around. I have literally seen a child watch another family member get terribly hurt and then start laughing and dancing as if excited. I literally had to tell this child that was not appropriate. The child was doing it because she wanted attention and knew that since the other child was hurt, the attention was going the other way. She felt she had to compete so she tried to be very cute and start dancing to get the attention back. It was not planned or prepared. It just was. From a young age, she had been taught that everything HAD to be about her or she was in danger.

When normal people see that type of thing, it enrages them. It provokes hate. They literally cannot imagine what would cause someone to "dance on the grave" of another person. We cannot project rational thinking on to someone who is not rational, but we do it anyway. We image the hate and rage they must feel to the person. The fact is - unless it currently impacts them - they are probably not thinking about it at all. (Ex: Ryan Burns just hours after killing TA. Even if it had been self defense, we would expect it to rock her world and it was not even on her radar.)

The reactions you are hearing on the board are what healthy people feel when faced with someone who is capable of committing such an extreme heinous act without any remorse or conscience. It was horrible to murder TA, but to do it and THEN have no remorse or conscience about calling him a pedophile, etc. is just incomprehensible to a normal person. I would even say it was healthy for people to be outraged.

It is also compounded because healthy people can feel and see the pain of TA's family. We can feel every emotion, cry with every tear. We literally carry some of that pain in us after seeing them. JA does not. Not judging. Just stating fact. She is absolutely oblivious to their pain - unless it benefits her. If it shows her she is winning, she can literally feed off of it and get joy from it. Again, I hope that as I write this that you don't hear judgement. I have seen this again and again.

The darkness people talk about in her eyes is real. For whatever reason, it is as if these people have dead souls. They are walking shells. No empathy. No conscience. No trust. Constant lying.

That's why you see the strong reactions. Kids I work with come that way. It is horrific to see what they can do - killing animals, hurting siblings, etc. without any remorse and, sometimes, with incredible joy. When you witness it, it is easy to feel extreme anger for the victims. Especially that, once they are caught, they continue to lie and justify.

Again, I keep wanting to point - no judgement. It is horrific. I tell you that we are all suffering worse than JA right now. We have more capacity to feel pain. Her hardest moment of the trial has been the brief moments where the jury does not believe her act. That takes the fun out - that means losing. The only fears she has are abandonment and not being special. TA hit the first. The jury just mortified her with the second.

I don't mean to ramble. If JA was murdered, we would have never seen this side of her.

The challenge in dealing with this every day - and many of my families do - is that anger, extreme anger, when you live with the constant lies, violence, and manipulation only feeds the disorder. In addition, the person to whom the anger is targeted, in this case, JA, is thrilled with the attention - positive or negative. So, if you hold on to the anger, you are making her feel better and making yourself feel consumed.

Not speaking about trial watchers, but people who live with it constantly. It is nerve wracking, no matter how much sympathy you have for how a person got there. It can be maddening to watch this type of individual in action. But, trust me, JA is flattered by any attention anyone gives her. Nothing on this board would offend her. She would be so pleased we all devoted so much of our lives to her -honestly.

I wanted to bring this to light again. Thanks Mormon Attorney. Many of us have had issues ..entitlement...abandoment issue..etc. We may hurt folks emotionally lying to them. ..Ignoring their feelings.....Or the act of being self centered and stealing their precious time. ..because we are not in touch with our emotion till we grow up.

When I finally grew up...after years of abuse...I made an effort to right my wrongs. To give is to receive. I have so much compassion for TA's family. Can't imagine what JA's family has been thru.

Pyschopaths have no ability to feel compassion..from what I understand. For her it seems that the thing that hurts her is abandonment by TA and being called a sociopath by him. She doesnt seem to have the ability to tell the truth. She is still saying it is about jodi.

I pray daily for Justice for TA.
 
Thank you, Flourish. I'm so sorry to hear about your brother. Your answer solidifies my belief that Jodi really doesn't have any core beliefs, that the Mormon faith was just another hook to reel in Travis.

Thank you.
Exactly how I saw it, too--a tool for her to use against him.

Even as an ex-mo, her lack of genuine interest in the faith, and her willingness to pretend to be a believer was offensive to me--if a person's going to join the church, they should do it because they truly believe in it.

And I also thought her answer about the law of chastity was super lame. Like, she didn't want to ask the super-young missionaries about it--that is completely understandable, but that's what home teachers, the bishopric, and the relief society president is there for--there were PLENTY of grown adults she could have, and should have, been talking to prior to baptism--I can't imagine anyone really gets baptized after being exposed ONLY to the missionaries and not other members.

Her pants seem to be perpetually on fire, IMO.
 
I turned it off as soon as whoever made that asked Brian Carr if he was "mentally deficient." There are far better ways to make a point than to personally attack someone like that.

And I'm not alone in thinking he may not be all there, that's even more reason to stay away from nasty comments like that.

I didn't watch this video when I saw that it was addressed to Carr.
I think it's in bad taste regardless of any condition Carr may or may not have.
He did not murder anyone.

ETA: If anyone should be called out; it is HLN. They'll let anyone on. Their lack of journalistic integrity/standards is revolting.
 
I am not an expert nor a Mormon, but was raised in a strong Mormon household (I'm what some refer to as an "ex-mo," meaning "ex-mormon").

My brother committed suicide when I was little and he was a teenager, so this was a discussion that came up a lot in my family. It is my understanding that murder is unforgivable/"unrepentable" because it is impossible to make the situation "whole" again, because the person is dead. Like, there's no way to make restitution.

I had a difficult time as a five-year-old understanding why any God would punish my brother for what I already at that age recognized as some sort of mental health issue, so my mom told me that God (Heavenly Father is how Mormons refer to God) knows all and would know what was in my brother's heart, etc. etc. I don't know if that's true, but I suspect it was just to make me feel better.

In any case, as far as an afterlife, IIRC, the Mormon faith believes everyone gets an afterlife, they are just not the traditional "one heaven or one hell" that other religions go with. IIRC, "outer darkness" would be where murderers and apostates (that's me!) would go, and outer darkness is described (IIRC) as cold, dark, empty, with no interaction with other spirits and all one can hear is the "wailing and gnashing of teeth" of the other suffering souls stuck in outer darkness. While there's a chance of some sort of redemption/growth for people in the three main kingdoms of heaven (Celestial, Telestial, and Terrestial, I think), those in outer darkness are basically outta luck.

I don't know if that's helpful or not. I apologize if I've misrepresented anything. My experience with the tenants of the LDS faith is that much is left to interpretation, so one bishop or church leader may state one thing in their ward while another might interpret the same issue differently. It was all very confusing for me.

Jodi clearly did not understand even some of the basics of the religion. There's no way I believe she thought the law of chastity meant oral and anal was all good. Premarital sexual activity of any kind is not in line with the law of chastity as it was taught to me.

Please feel free to clarify or correct any of the information I've provided.

Oh, and IMO she is as guilty as could be, and will be found as such. I do doubt she'll get the death penalty, if for no other reason than she's a young white woman. LWOP is okay with me, though, as that offers her many years of unhappiness in prison.

about 30 years ago I was very heavy into genealogy. I actually went to Salt Lake City to do research for days on days. They had the best repository in the world as other religions throughout the world recognize them and let them do their books for documentation on genealogy.

Anyway, but I am leading to, is it I thought that the reason that they did so much Genealogy was that the descendants and others that were living could do genealogy and then forgive them? I am very very ignorant on this religion .. does anyone else know?

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Can you please give us a link? I went to HLN's facebook and I'm not seeing that anywhere.

Thanks!

Thank you for asking me to look this up! I was mistaken, it was The State of AZ vs. Jodi Arias on FB! My posts there have been so fast and furious I was reading HLN when I then read this:

FYI: Tesoro gas station on 1699 North temple is not and has never been open from 1 am - 6 am . Here's their phone number to verify (801) 596-7784. Arias could not have bought anything but gas and that's only available to pay at the pump with a credit card as no one is there at that time.
I am in error as to the source. But if you call them, they will verify that they have never had employees on site between 1-6 am.
 
During the Prosecution's cross that picture was discussed, and Juan did state that it was Travis' bloody shoulder. I remember seeing where someone put the dragging pic beside that picture and the blood trail down his back matches up. That's what makes me think she didn't put him on anything to drag him back to the shower. My guess is she was going on adrenalin, and was able to drag him without putting him on anything. MOO.

I would think that with all the blood, and the water from the shower... being on tile.. his body pretty much slid very easily. (wow that felt gross to even type out :(

"Search this thread" with my name shows NO RESULTS (even on past threads.) If I just use "Furiously" as a keyword I get too many results unrelated to me. I have been wondering the same thing though--how to find when I am quoted--to follow the comments/answers.

YES this site has been slow for me, too--maybe because of volume of traffic? But it took me a long time to realize all of the Thanks I was giving to others were not always going up. So I have resorted to refreshing, which puts me WAY behind in keeping up with the discussions.:banghead: But I still LOVE IT HERE!!!

I don't know if you are on a computer, but if you are what you could try is Ctrl+F to bring up a "find" bar. type your name in there and it will show each time your name is mentioned on the page, whether through a thanks, a post or a response?
 
This is what I want to know .. it's darned interesting that it reappeared when she came up with this trial strategy we see before us. VERY convenient.

Her entire defense is built around this tape and her journals. It's so painfully obvious. The jury has to have seen it too. Just take the condensed tape and everything that Travis said on it and look at her stories. Of course she's also been embellishing along the way but that tape is the base.

What really bothers me is that she must have had help with it. Not that she isn't totally qualified herself, but someone must have talked her into it. Someone must have said the Ninja story is not going to fly, what else do you have? A tape? Okay lets go over that. And I really despise people who help defendents make up a "story" for a defense. :furious:

MOO
 
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