Intruder theories only. No posts from rdi members allowed

[2 percent]

I don't recall any mention of locking down the phone (I'm pretty sure a phone can be answered from a remote location anyway - I wonder if that technology was available back then).

Impractical, tricky and unnecessary. It wasn't going to happen, there was no need and probably couldn't like you mentioned.

I also don't buy that LE would not usually (and immediately) be very interested in any forensic evidence that would give them information about the identity of any kidnappers, point of entry etc., or the condition of the victim.

They would be interested. The victim would be assumed to be elsewhere....why else leave that ransom note? If she was dead just leave.

I just can't see why LE would delay a thorough visual search at least - that could have been done even if the plan had been to keep the Ramseys and their friends close to observe their demeanors and interactions.

They didn't delay. They just didn't do it.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Huge mistake was letting John Ramsey roam the house, allowing all those people to come in and also advocates to start cleaning behind LE! ...another huge mistake was allowing her to be covered, another huge mistake allowing a prayer circle form around and over her, and yet another huge mistake ...basically telling Pasty to say her goodbyes and actively encouraging Patsy to hold & touch her body. They should have been separated and interviewed before the body was even found.

There were no shortage of mistakes by LE that morning, that's for certain.

All IMO

 

[Linda7NJ]

Impractical, tricky and unnecessary. It wasn't going to happen, there was no need and probably couldn't like you mentioned.



They would be interested. The victim would be assumed to be elsewhere....why else leave that ransom note? If she was dead just leave.



They didn't delay. They just didn't do it.

French did. He searched for an entry / exit point that morning.

 

[catswhiskers]

Impractical, tricky and unnecessary. It wasn't going to happen, there was no need and probably couldn't like you mentioned.

I'll disagree there - highly practical and necessary imo, if it meant preserving a crime scene. A ransom call could be answered from anywhere if the call was diverted to a different line.

They would be interested. The victim would be assumed to be elsewhere....why else leave that ransom note? If she was dead just leave.

Yes kidnapping victims are usually elsewhere. I did mean searching for clues about the victims condition in terms of whether or not it looked like they had been injured, lost blood, put up a struggle, knocked out, bound, re-dressed, had other belongings taken with them - heck, even dragged out knocking things over as they went or leaving scuff marks on the floor.

They didn't delay. They just didn't do it.

Yes - which just astounds me, and was the point of my post.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I'll disagree there - highly practical and necessary imo, if it meant preserving a crime scene. A ransom call could be answered from anywhere if the call was diverted to a different line.

Yes kidnapping victims are usually elsewhere. I did mean searching for clues about the victims condition in terms of whether or not it looked like they had been injured, lost blood, put up a struggle, knocked out, bound, re-dressed, had other belongings taken with them - heck, even dragged out knocking things over as they went or leaving scuff marks on the floor.

Yes - which just astounds me, and was the point of my post.

Iirc French did that too.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

The point is there were a lot of mistakes made. They were made by the police and they basically made it hard to solve this case. The crime scene was not secured and completely contaminated.. LE did not do their job correctly.

If they had maybe this would have been solved by now.

There is too much to me that still says this is someone else and not the R's.

 

[2 percent]

The point is there were a lot of mistakes made. They were made by the police and they basically made it hard to solve this case. The crime scene was not secured and completely contaminated.. LE did not do their job correctly.

If they had maybe this would have been solved by now.

There is too much to me that still says this is someone else and not the R's.

What does the crime scene problems have to do with whether or not someone else or the Ramseys committed this murder?

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

What does the crime scene problems have to do with whether or not someone else or the Ramseys committed this murder?

Most likely evidence was lost and contaminated making it harder to find the source and leading to confusion about real evidence and transfer after the fact...

IT makes it harder to solve not having all the right pieces that fit..

All the fibers all over the body, That matched the R's could have come when The blanket was thrown over her. There is all the fibers that point to The R's right there..

There is no way to point at anything that is from the r's and say it got there any other way than innocent transfer after that.

 

[Roy23]

What does the crime scene problems have to do with whether or not someone else or the Ramseys committed this murder?

Really? Let me count the ways.

LE securing the crime scene could have found that one piece of evidence that at least steers the direction away or torward the Ramsey's. That could happen by not allowing Ramsey friends in, not allowing a clean up, finding the body so that the Ramsey's don't move it, touch it, transfer on it etc. etc.

Also use proper techniques on gathering the fingernail DNA which helped render it completely as degraded and won't help in a court of law.

See these things are not the fault of the Ramsey's AT ALL. Just one thing done differently and maybe the Ramsey's are treated as victims and not suspects. One of the things I hate about much of the RDI argument is that many of them blame the Ramsey's for this very problem and lawyering up. I don't have a problem with someone that thinks the Ramsey's did it based on what the media and LE reported. It's not logical to me though. And why did LE report those things to the media?

Had things been done right this case could have turned out a WHOLE LOT different. But RDI's usually don't want to acknoledge that. So I stay away from them now.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Really? Let me count the ways.

LE securing the crime scene could have found that one piece of evidence that at least steers the direction away or torward the Ramsey's. That could happen by not allowing Ramsey friends in, not allowing a clean up, finding the body so that the Ramsey's don't move it, touch it, transfer on it etc. etc.

Also use proper techniques on gathering the fingernail DNA which helped render it completely as degraded and won't help in a court of law.

See these things are not the fault of the Ramsey's AT ALL. Just one thing done differently and maybe the Ramsey's are treated as victims and not suspects. One of the things I hate about much of the RDI argument is that many of them blame the Ramsey's for this very problem and lawyering up. I don't have a problem with someone that thinks the Ramsey's did it based on what the media and LE reported. It's not logical to me though. And why did LE report those things to the media?

Had things been done right this case could have turned out a WHOLE LOT different. But RDI's usually don't want to acknoledge that. So I stay away from them now.

Dude, I admit it. No shortage of mistakes were made by law enforcement!

The entire thing is one huge colossal cluster f&$k!!!! The Ramsey's with their lies, law enforcement with their mismanagement straight away, the corruption of the DAs office...

From top to bottom this case was and remains a mess.

 

[FrayedKnot]

Most likely evidence was lost and contaminated making it harder to find the source and leading to confusion about real evidence and transfer after the fact...

IT makes it harder to solve not having all the right pieces that fit..

All the fibers all over the body, That matched the R's could have come when The blanket was thrown over her. There is all the fibers that point to The R's right there..

There is no way to point at anything that is from the r's and say it got there any other way than innocent transfer after that.

Under the duct tape over her mouth? Twisted into the rope that strangled her? Not lying atop, but twisted in there?

Inside the crotch of her panties?

I do not think tossing a blanky over her could explain any of those.

 

[DeDee]

Most likely evidence was lost and contaminated making it harder to find the source and leading to confusion about real evidence and transfer after the fact...

IT makes it harder to solve not having all the right pieces that fit..

All the fibers all over the body, That matched the R's could have come when The blanket was thrown over her. There is all the fibers that point to The R's right there..

There is no way to point at anything that is from the r's and say it got there any other way than innocent transfer after that.

BBM
There is no way to point at anything that is from the r's and say it got there any other way than innocent transfer after that.

Only, Ms Scarlett, please explain, if you will, the fibers consistent with PRs sweater that were found tied into the garrote knot. Forensically, the term consistent means that it is a match. It should not be there. Can the action of innocent transfer explain John's shirt fibers discovered in those brand new size 12 day-of-the-week panties from Bloomingdale's that his daughter was found to be wearing? It should not be there. Those are two important factors that need to be overcome.

Believe me. I would rather prefer this horrendous crime be perpetrated by an IDI bc the alternative is just so unimaginable. What is the psyche profile for a predator capturing their lovely prey on Christmas Day and leaving a rambling ransom note?

Anyone care to respond to these points? TIA

• Do you theorize the IDI went into the R home surreptitiously and waited for the arrival of the R family indoors? Meanwhile, the pedophile IDI penned the Ransom Note of the century before performing the dastardly deeds, correct?
  
• Or was the IDI outdoors casing the home and entered once it appeared all was quiet as a mouse inside the R house?
  
  It's possible that it matters little the IDIs entry nor exit point. However, I am suspect of the leaves scattered on the concrete basement floor under the window near the Samsonite luggage, IIRC.
  
  
• Are there six separate IDI suspects involved, according to the DNA, TDNA results?
  
• At what location did the skull fracture most likely occur and with what weapon or object?
  
• Note to Reader: Rated X topic, skip this bullet if you wish: Is it merely a coincidence that the child was jabbed in her delicate vagina, as the AR states, corresponding with the fact that JB was chronically abused with a partial hymen with an opening twice as large as typical for a child her age and size?
  
• Speculation for some IDI is the kidnapper, who may have had a job in security in downtown Boulder or not and who possibly hid inside JonBenet's bedroom closet and slipped into her bedroom while she was dozing. He then led her to the pineapple dish on the table; perhaps not using the spiral staircase; and she subsequently was taken further down into the basement on a pretense. The Rs are innocent and their precious daughter was callously murdered as she was being kidnapped. Is that close to the IDI theory?

 

[catswhiskers]

This is the IDI thread. Please post accordingly. This is not a discussion thread between the two positions. There are many other threads for that. This is the IDI thread.

Please stay on topic.

Thanks,

Salem

Just bumping up a recent message from Salem for those who may have missed it.

 

[2 percent]

Really? Let me count the ways.

LE securing the crime scene could have found that one piece of evidence that at least steers the direction away or torward the Ramsey's. That could happen by not allowing Ramsey friends in, not allowing a clean up, finding the body so that the Ramsey's don't move it, touch it, transfer on it etc. etc.

Let me get this clear. You think there was one piece of evidence that unerringly points to the murderer?
I seriously doubt that.

If an IDI, the largest part of evidence of their complicity would sit with the entry/exit, the bedroom where she was taken and where the body was found. Only one of those areas was disturbed to any extent before the scene was secured, JB's body. As I've said, I don't think moving the body would destroy anything, just compromise it. Most cases I've debated there has been compromised evidence.

Also use proper techniques on gathering the fingernail DNA which helped render it completely as degraded and won't help in a court of law.

This is outside the scope of what we're discussing, LE response at the house. The fingernails were intact and unclipped until the autopsy. If you want to discuss Meyer, we can but not in this post.

And why did LE report those things to the media?

Report what things to the media?

Had things been done right this case could have turned out a WHOLE LOT different. But RDI's usually don't want to acknoledge that. So I stay away from them now.

We don't know that. Truly, we don't.
If an IDI did it, the only evidence to convict them would have been on the body...and that's not enough to convict alone.

 

[Salem]

Bumping.

Okay Guys - I'm going to say this plainly and simply. I'm not getting on to anyone here - just setting the parameters of this thread.

You can discuss the evidence. That's important. BUT if your discussion is only to show that it must have been the Ramseys' that committed this crime, then don't post it. This isn't the thread for that. This is the thread to discuss how the evidence might point to an intruder or someone other than the Ramseys. If you don't think that is possible, then this is not the thread for you. Take it to one of the other threads, like the RDI thread.

Any snark or attacks will get you a TO.

This is an intriguing case with several options/solutions still on the table - as evidenced by the fact that the case remains unsolved. If you don't want to explore other ideas - that's fine. That's okay. But don't prevent others from doing so.

Salem

Remember - this is to discuss how the evidence might point AWAY from the Ramseys. That means trying on a new pair of shoes. For some that will mean exploring a new thought process - doesn't mean anyone has to change their minds, but to post here, it does mean trying on those new shoes.

Salem

 

[Ausgirl]

I would love to hear some other actual theories....

 

[Karmady]

not sure where to put this many years later, but "and hence" is an extraordinarliy specific elocution of attorneys. The grammar mistake in that sentence would not be made by someone who also would use "and hence" correctly.

More recently, the preferred usage is "and, therefore." But back when this happened, hence was definitely a lawyerism.


jmo

 

[Mollyandme]

I would love to hear some other actual theories....

im not sure if it was the ramseys or not, i tend to believe it was one of them but if it was an IDI, i do have a theory that could be somewhat plausible.

it could have been someone at the party they were at that night who left before the ramsey's did and hid in the guest room, someone who knows them but maybe not as well as the ramseys know the IDI, maybe someone on the periphery of their social circle. the guest room would be a good place to hide until they came home and would be in close proximity to Jon Benet's room. I would think the IDI tased jon benet in her bed so she wouldn't make any noise, but that doesn't really explain the pineapple found in her digestive tract. If it was an IDI i believe they entered and exited through the basement window. Also, according to the link I am posting below, detective Smit said that there was a baseball bat which was found outside with fibers that matched the fibers in the basement and was found in an area where you wouldn't find children playing. There was also a palm print found on the cellar door that hasn't been identified, and a pubic hair in her blanket that doesn't match any of the ramseys.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/famous/ramsey/book_9b.html

 

[tezi]

im not sure if it was the ramseys or not, i tend to believe it was one of them but if it was an IDI, i do have a theory that could be somewhat plausible.

it could have been someone at the party they were at that night who left before the ramsey's did and hid in the guest room, someone who knows them but maybe not as well as the ramseys know the IDI, maybe someone on the periphery of their social circle. the guest room would be a good place to hide until they came home and would be in close proximity to Jon Benet's room. I would think the IDI tased jon benet in her bed so she wouldn't make any noise, but that doesn't really explain the pineapple found in her digestive tract. If it was an IDI i believe they entered and exited through the basement window. Also, according to the link I am posting below, detective Smit said that there was a baseball bat which was found outside with fibers that matched the fibers in the basement and was found in an area where you wouldn't find children playing. There was also a palm print found on the cellar door that hasn't been identified, and a pubic hair in her blanket that doesn't match any of the ramseys.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/famous/ramsey/book_9b.html

OK, I am not arguing with anyone, just pointing out a few things.

1. The link isn't working for me.

2. The bat had fibers that belonged in the house, so it can be linked to the house. However, don't forget that Patsy said in one of the interviews that the kids just dropped their toys and didn't put them away.

3. The palm print was matched to Melinda. Charlie Brennan broke the story years and years ago. I will find the link.

4. The public hair was identified. I believe it was sourced to Patsy.

Not trying to argue. Not trying to point the finger at the Ramseys, just saying that the above information is incorrect.:seeya:

JMO

 

[tezi]

Here is the link about the palm print: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...t=JonBenet+Ramsey+Melinda+Basement+Palm+Print

Again, not trying to stir up trouble, just pointing out some facts.

JMO