Intruder theories only - RDI theories not allowed! *READ FIRST POST* #2

[2 percent]

I disagree as with the case I linked. What about BTK? I am sure there are more..

There was lapses between successful killing but not in his behavior, really.
He stalked his victims for a long time. Some of them caught him and filed restraining orders orders and at least one got away. He was still obsessed but forced to lay low, so he would go back to taunting the public with deliveries and clues.

In his confession Rader said during the gap between '77 and '85, one victim got away and made him so mad he obsessed for a while. There were 2 others in the early 80s. Then the gap between '85 and '91 he admitted admitted to stalking one woman. Of these 3 women, 2 filed restraining orders and one moved away and he didn't follow.

So the behavior didn't stop, it just wasn't successful all the time. But he ways had a thrill to go back to in the ebbs.

 

[DeDee]

RBBM

Of course not. They already killed her. They knew she was in the basement dead. This goes more to an intruder. If it was the R's they would have gotten rid of her and then kept up with a kidnapping scenario. The people who were there never called because they probably assumed they would find her first thing and that was that.

Are you stating that JonBenet was not murdered by one or both of her parents because her body was found in a semi-hidden concrete room within the basement of the family's home?

Why is the body being found in the home the determining factor for you?

Are you stating that JonBenet was not murdered by one or both of her parents because the body was not hidden in an alligator infested swamp with duct tape over her mouth with a heart sticker on it but instead was discovered inside her own home? Therefore, since she was found in the home, neither JR nor PR committed this horrendous crime, on Christmas night?

One or both of the Rs planned to get rid of JonBenet's body? No. Never. The basement concrete cellar was as far as the 6yo victim was planned to be taken by whomever "really kidnapped her"

Although listed according to the order I feel the events occurred, which order do these particular events evolve, according to your interpretation, of the official reports and evidence that we have available?

A) Sexual assault (probably on 2nd floor, imo)
B) JBR walked willingly into the basement, lint on feet, until she was clobbered on the top of her head. Maybe with the edge of that suitcase. Or the torch light.
C) 60 - 90 minutes between head and neck injuries
D) Initial partial strangulation
E) Final Strangulation

* Not sure about the timing on this but suspicious that the killer snapped a cutesy picture of JonBenet before she died, according to PRs interviews.

It appears to me that either way, RDI or IDI, JonBenet was murdered intentionally, and on purpose, with foresight and knowledge.

OMO that may change without notice

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

There was lapses between successful killing but not in his behavior, really.
He stalked his victims for a long time. Some of them caught him and filed restraining orders orders and at least one got away. He was still obsessed but forced to lay low, so he would go back to taunting the public with deliveries and clues.

In his confession Rader said during the gap between '77 and '85, one victim got away and made him so mad he obsessed for a while. There were 2 others in the early 80s. Then the gap between '85 and '91 he admitted admitted to stalking one woman. Of these 3 women, 2 filed restraining orders and one moved away and he didn't follow.

So the behavior didn't stop, it just wasn't successful all the time. But he ways had a thrill to go back to in the ebbs.

The point is that this person could have done another crime.. It may have been different but it could be the same guy.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

RBBM



Are you stating that JonBenet was not murdered by one or both of her parents because her body was found in a semi-hidden concrete room within the basement of the family's home?

Why is the body being found in the home the determining factor for you?

Are you stating that JonBenet was not murdered by one or both of her parents because the body was not hidden in an alligator infested swamp with duct tape over her mouth with a heart sticker on it but instead was discovered inside her own home? Therefore, since she was found in the home, neither JR nor PR committed this horrendous crime, on Christmas night?

One or both of the Rs planned to get rid of JonBenet's body? No. Never. The basement concrete cellar was as far as the 6yo victim was planned to be taken by whomever "really kidnapped her"

Although listed according to the order I feel the events occurred, which order do these particular events evolve, according to your interpretation, of the official reports and evidence that we have available?

A) Sexual assault (probably on 2nd floor, imo)
B) JBR walked willingly into the basement, lint on feet, until she was clobbered on the top of her head. Maybe with the edge of that suitcase. Or the torch light.
C) 60 - 90 minutes between head and neck injuries
D) Initial partial strangulation
E) Final Strangulation

* Not sure about the timing on this but suspicious that the killer snapped a cutesy picture of JonBenet before she died, according to PRs interviews.

It appears to me that either way, RDI or IDI, JonBenet was murdered intentionally, and on purpose, with foresight and knowledge.

OMO that may change without notice

That I don't believe they killed her that is no secret. The fact that people think they went through this elaborate Kidnapping scheme to then leave her in the basement is a stretch.

If you are planning a Kidnapping scheme you get rid of the body or what is the point? You don't stage things and then thwart your own staging. If you are cold enough to kill your child and then stage a kidnapping she has to disappear.

There are so many variations on the theory of how and why they did it but in the end it does not make sense. If you are staging a kidnapping, then she can not be there. If you are staging an intruder murder, you don't want to touch her and mess up your staging.

Either way, it does not work. You cannot be cold enough to choke the life out of her and bash her head in with so much force and then worry about her being out in the woods somewhere.

 

[MyBelle]

That I don't believe they killed her that is no secret. The fact that people think they went through this elaborate Kidnapping scheme to then leave her in the basement is a stretch.

If you are planning a Kidnapping scheme you get rid of the body or what is the point? You don't stage things and then thwart your own staging. If you are cold enough to kill your child and then stage a kidnapping she has to disappear.

There are so many variations on the theory of how and why they did it but in the end it does not make sense. If you are staging a kidnapping, then she can not be there. If you are staging an intruder murder, you don't want to touch her and mess up your staging.

Either way, it does not work. You cannot be cold enough to choke the life out of her and bash her head in with so much force and then worry about her being out in the woods somewhere.

A twisted mind can do just about anything.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I believe the only theory that "works" is that Patsy Ramsey murdered her daughter and staged the kidnapping in order to implicate her husband.

Again, That is not for this thread. This is IDI.

 

[MyBelle]

Again, That is not for this thread. This is IDI.

I changed my comment.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

A twisted mind can do just about anything.

And with that we do agree.. :loveyou:

 

[Linda7NJ]

That I don't believe they killed her that is no secret. The fact that people think they went through this elaborate Kidnapping scheme to then leave her in the basement is a stretch.

If you are planning a Kidnapping scheme you get rid of the body or what is the point? You don't stage things and then thwart your own staging. If you are cold enough to kill your child and then stage a kidnapping she has to disappear.

There are so many variations on the theory of how and why they did it but in the end it does not make sense. If you are staging a kidnapping, then she can not be there. If you are staging an intruder murder, you don't want to touch her and mess up your staging.

Either way, it does not work. You cannot be cold enough to choke the life out of her and bash her head in with so much force and then worry about her being out in the woods somewhere.

I know I don't belong here... Just something to consider...even Casey Anthony put a heart sticker on Caylee and wrapped her in her beloved Pooh blanket.
JonBenet was wiped down, redressed and wrapped up like a papoose, in her favorite blanket.



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[lawstudent]

Plenty of people have been arrested decades laters for serious crimes without subsequent incidents. It's by no means impossible. Depends on the age, motivation, situation, etc. As I've said before, I think that's especially true for people who commit crimes as teens, when they don't have a lot of forethought. Many reoffend, but many don't. Serial killers are almost never going to stop. I could believe a young person did it and did not reoffend, but I'd be shocked they managed to keep it quiet. But if this was a mature sexual predator, I'd be shocked they did not do something again. They may never have taken it as far as that night, but they'd have gotten caught for something. And if it was someone who fixated mostly on JonBenet and no one else, that person probably would have stood out to someone. The crime has always made more sense to me if it's not a sex crime, but I know the evidence indicates otherwise.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I know I don't belong here... Just something to consider...even Casey Anthony put a heart sticker on Caylee and wrapped her in her beloved Pooh blanket.
JonBenet was wiped down, redressed and wrapped up like a papoose, in her favorite blanket.



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And left her in a swamp to be eaten by wild life. If we found JBR in a swamp, I would honestly have to consider it. Her being in the house, Changes things.

 

[Linda7NJ]

And left her in a swamp to be eaten by wild life. If we found JBR in a swamp, I would honestly have to consider it. Her being in the house, Changes things.

You missed my point. But I won't litter up your thread. ((((Hugs))))


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[ScarlettScarpetta]

You missed my point. But I won't litter up your thread. ((((Hugs))))


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I understood, I think she could have been wrapped up to take out and then they chose not to. I don't believe that it meant more than that because nothing else fits that scenario..

Someone hit JBR with incredible force. And then strangled the life out of her. Caylee IMO was most likely either given too much meds and died, She was not strangled with a rope.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Back to the fecal issue with BR.. So far I find nothing that makes the fact. I see it comes right from Kolar and I don't see anything else that substantiates that..

I did find that it is nothing nefarious to have a child have bathroom issues that many kids whose parents are ill have issues. Also there is a group of kids that really struggle with the control issue of it or have other issues that could cause discomfort and cause them to delay or regress in this area.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Back to the fecal issue with BR.. So far I find nothing that makes the fact. I see it comes right from Kolar and I don't see anything else that substantiates that..

I did find that it is nothing nefarious to have a child have bathroom issues that many kids whose parents are ill have issues. Also there is a group of kids that really struggle with the control issue of it or have other issues that could cause discomfort and cause them to delay or regress in this area.

IMO the fact that there was still fecal issues (smearing) going on at that time given their ages, is an indication of a severe issue.


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[MyBelle]

Back to the fecal issue with BR.. So far I find nothing that makes the fact. I see it comes right from Kolar and I don't see anything else that substantiates that..

I did find that it is nothing nefarious to have a child have bathroom issues that many kids whose parents are ill have issues. Also there is a group of kids that really struggle with the control issue of it or have other issues that could cause discomfort and cause them to delay or regress in this area.

I wasn't aware Burke also had problems. I think it would be highly unusual for a household to have both children with such issues. It can be a sign of sexual abuse as can avoidance of the bathtub.

JMO

 

[Mama2JML]

From FF:WRKJB, p. 367-70:

"I had reviewed an investigator’s report that documented a 1997 interview with former Ramsey nanny – housekeeper Geraldine Vodicka, who stated that Burke had smeared feces on the walls of a bathroom during his mother’s first bout with cancer. She told investigators that Nedra Paugh, who was visiting the Ramsey home at the time, had directed her to clean up the mess.

There were other police reports in the files that documented what I thought could be viewed as related behavior. CSIs had written about finding a pair of pajama bottoms in JonBenét’s bedroom that contained fecal material. They were too big for her and were thought to belong to Burke.

Additionally, a box of candy located in her bedroom had also been observed to be smeared with feces. Both of these discoveries had been made during the processing of the crime scene during the execution of search warrants following the discovery of JonBenét’s body.

I wondered whether fecal material observed in pajamas thought to belong to Burke, and smeared on the box of candy in his sister’s bedroom, could have been related to the symptoms of scatological behavior associated with SBP." (Kolar, 2012)​

There is too much left to the imagination, here, to accept Kolar's ponderings as probable, then build a theory around them.

Should one confidently accept these [assumed] observations as facts definitively connected to Burke? No.

Is SBP a possibility? Well, sure. ...along with other, more likely explanations.

 

[THE BUNK]

Do any of you guys have a suspect, or a plan of identifying a suspect?

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

From FF:WRKJB, p. 367-70:

"I had reviewed an investigator’s report that documented a 1997 interview with former Ramsey nanny – housekeeper Geraldine Vodicka, who stated that Burke had smeared feces on the walls of a bathroom during his mother’s first bout with cancer. She told investigators that Nedra Paugh, who was visiting the Ramsey home at the time, had directed her to clean up the mess.

There were other police reports in the files that documented what I thought could be viewed as related behavior. CSIs had written about finding a pair of pajama bottoms in JonBenét’s bedroom that contained fecal material. They were too big for her and were thought to belong to Burke.

Additionally, a box of candy located in her bedroom had also been observed to be smeared with feces. Both of these discoveries had been made during the processing of the crime scene during the execution of search warrants following the discovery of JonBenét’s body.

I wondered whether fecal material observed in pajamas thought to belong to Burke, and smeared on the box of candy in his sister’s bedroom, could have been related to the symptoms of scatological behavior associated with SBP." (Kolar, 2012)​

There is too much left to the imagination, here, to accept Kolar's ponderings as probable, then build a theory around them.

Should one confidently accept these [assumed] observations as facts definitively connected to Burke? No.

Is SBP a possibility? Well, sure. ...along with other, more likely explanations.

http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Child-Behavior/6-year-old-doesnt-want-to-poop/show/463028

http://kidshealth.org/parent/emotions/behavior/encopresis.html

I don't think it shows anything about murder. I think it shows a kid who was as normal as any other.

 

[Mama2JML]

Do any of you guys have a suspect, or a plan of identifying a suspect?

I believe the CODIS DNA profile belongs to the/an assailant. I've classified many POIs as unlikely to have been involved, although my list of possibilities grows. :banghead: