• #821
no? why does that matter?

i think the bottom line here is that the only way defend the statement "iran has killed more americans than any other terrorist regime", is to carefully define "terrorist regime" to exclude a bunch of elephants in the living room, like al qaeda, nazi germany, imperial japan, fascist italy, and (i think) even the taliban. it's basically inventing a category so you can make iran sound like the worst enemy we've ever faced.

it's similar in spirit to when the announcer says "this hitter bats over 0.700 with runners in scoring position on the first tuesday after a full moon".
You said "terror", which would exclude WWII, not to mention that it was over 70 years ago. Of the other modern era entities you name, they all were supported by one or more theocracies. I think history shows that it matters.

Jmo
 
  • #822
It looks like the US government is gradually getting people comfortable with the idea of a long war in the Middle East. It started with 2-3 or 5 days, then 4-5 weeks, now it might be far longer.

"The U.S.-Israeli attack on Iran and wide-scale Iranian reprisals expanded Monday as the United States pledged to send more troops to the region. Speaking in the White House’s East Room, President Donald Trump said the U.S. military projected that the operation in Iran could take four to five weeks but has “the capability to go far longer than that.”

The U.S. military expects to endure additional casualties in its operation, Joint Chiefs Chairman Dan Caine said in a rare on-camera news briefing, adding that accomplishing objectives will take “some time” and, “in some cases, will be difficult and gritty work.”

When was there NOT war in the Middle East?
 
  • #823
  • #824
But isn't that exactly what seems to be happening? I don't seen any wholesale destruction of the Iranian infrastructure. Do you have links to information about infrastructure destruction? The goal seems to be to cut the head off to allow the people their chance. Revolutionary Guard unfortunately controls sooo much, and their capabilities have to be degraded . I suspect IRG will begin fading into the crowds now to save themselves.

I have posted many links. So have others. You would have to read something other than the filtered (imo) US news.

The govt offices, the military offices, hospitals, schools .... and they are only in Day Three of the attack.


Eg:
In Tehran, an air strike targeting 72 Square in the eastern neighbourhood of Narmak damaged a high school with authorities reporting that at least two children were killed.

According to Iranian authorities, the Aboozar Children’s Hospital in western Iran’s Ahvaz and three medical emergency centres in the provinces of East Azerbaijan, Sistan-Baluchistan and Hamedan were also damaged.

On Monday afternoon, fighter jets conducted bombing runs across Tehran once again. Attacks damaged the main building of the province’s medical emergency services, located in Iranshahr Street in the downtown area. Videos released by state-affiliated media showed staff evacuating, and the state-run Tasnim news agency said several staff members were injured.


This MSM has reporters in the Middle East and in Israel - it is based out of Qatar.
 
  • #825
I don't see this in the same way. It may have been different if this was a military operation that went in quick, wiped out the leaders, and left. Then used 'diplomacy' to help bring in another government.

What I don't like is turning their homeland into rubble. Because it will make it that much harder for any new govt to form. Civilians may actually hate the attackers for destroying their infrastructure.

imo
It's been two days. Let's give it a couple of weeks and then see where we're at vis-a-vis goal attainment.

Regular progress updates from the administration would be helpful, and I expect we'll be getting them.

It sounds to me as if we've been focused on taking out all the military installations, weaponry, IR infrastructure, and hidey-holes of all the known bad actors.

I do not think Israel and the US will be laying waste to entire cities or indiscriminately carpet bombing large population centers. They've advised civilian Iranians to shelter in place for now given the fact that the IRGC is still taking out opposition in the streets.

I think most Iranians, at least those who aren't militant islamists, will welcome the opportunity to shed the oppressive rule they've been living under and will be willing to role up their sleeves and work to rebuild the country, both societally and physically.

If it turns out that a majority of Iranians still want to live under militant islamism, well, then, we'll have nothing to do with helping them recover whatsoever.

JMO.
 
  • #826
When was there NOT war in the Middle East?
I don't know. In 2003 the US launched war against Iraq. Has the US waged war against other countries in the Middle least since then - other than the current war in Iran?

I assumed it was understood that I was discussing US war in the Middle East.

I should have said: "It looks like the US government is gradually getting people comfortable with the idea of a long US war in the Middle East."
 
  • #827
I don't view it as Spain siding with Iran. I do however view it as Spain not supporting the US. I think many in the US see it this way as well, and will remember.

Re: "many people in the UK and EU no longer view the US as a reliable ally", I think the feeling is mutual.

Jmo
Cool, but please enlighten me…did the UK threaten to ‘take’ an allied territory and did the UK’s government leader disrespect US servicemen and women? Because if they did I must have missed it

IMO
 
  • #828
I don't know. In 2003 the US launched war against Iraq. Has the US waged war against other countries in the Middle least since then - other than the current war in Iran?

I assumed it was understood that I was discussing US war in the Middle East.

I should have said: "It looks like the US government is gradually getting people comfortable with the idea of a long US war in the Middle East."
I didn't get the impression that the US is getting people ready for a long war. The fact that most of Iran's neighbors are engaging Iranian assets now as well, that Lebanon is seeking the end of Hezbollah, etc that the entire region is ready for change in Iran. I don't think there will be a long US war here at all.
 
  • #829
Gas on southeastern US Sun 2.69 today 3.09 per gallon.
I don’t mind paying 5.00 per gallon if Irans nuclear program is destroyed. I want my grandkids to have a safer future.
Moo

Agreed, but having said that, I do want the government keeping an eye on the oil companies to make sure they're not price gouging just to line their pockets.

A genuine shortage is one thing. Profiteering is another.

Gotta' keep these oil companies honest.
 
Last edited:
  • #830
New: The US is preparing for a “major uptick” in attacks on Iran over the next 24 hours, a senior US official tells me.
The US has assessed that a first round of attacks has achieved the goal of weakening Iranian defenses, and the next phase will heavily focus on destroying the country’s missile production, unmanned aerial vehicles and naval capability, the official said.

President Donald Trump previewed escalating attacks in an interview with CNN earlier Monday, saying, “We haven’t even started hitting them hard. The big wave hasn’t even happened. The big one is coming soon.”

 
  • #831
  • #832
I didn't get the impression that the US is getting people ready for a long war. The fact that most of Iran's neighbors are engaging Iranian assets now as well, that Lebanon is seeking the end of Hezbollah, etc that the entire region is ready for change in Iran. I don't think there will be a long US war here at all.
My comment specified that the US government initially said the US-Israel war against Iran could be over in less than 5 days, depending on killing the leader. Then, the timeline was expanded to 4-5 weeks. Now, it is announced that it could go much longer.

That is what has been reported by the US government.

My conclusion, based on the lengthening timeline, is that the US government seems to be gradually getting people comfortable with a longer war. It's my opinion. We can revisit this in 4-5 weeks and see whether the war has ended, or whether, as reported today, it could go much longer.

"The U.S.-Israeli attack on Iran and wide-scale Iranian reprisals expanded Monday as the United States pledged to send more troops to the region. Speaking in the White House’s East Room, President Donald Trump said the U.S. military projected that the operation in Iran could take four to five weeks but has “the capability to go far longer than that.”

The U.S. military expects to endure additional casualties in its operation, Joint Chiefs Chairman Dan Caine said in a rare on-camera news briefing, adding that accomplishing objectives will take “some time” and, “in some cases, will be difficult and gritty work.”​

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...updates/#link-X2E7R3IK6BC6TIBJQVQDSSRUYE[/URL
 
  • #833
Are you suggesting that we are letting missiles through on purpose? If so I will see myself out of this conversation because my son is currently working in missile defense shooting down Iranian missiles and drones and to suggest they would let some through ?
Preposterous, isn't it?
 
  • #834
Massguy is quite calm and reasonable in his discussions.
Calling someone a Nazi for expressing a different opinion isn't calm and reasonable. Seriously?
 

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