Is the molester also the killer?

  • #221
Darlene733510,

6-year old girls do not need douching, no doctor would recommend it since JonBenet at six-years is not internally mature enough!


.

If PR knew JB was being molested,then douching could have been more of a mentally symbolic act? ie-she knew it was wrong and was trying to clean JB,only it was a mental cleaning more than it was a physical one,at least that's what was going on in her mind(?)
 
  • #222
Especially since just before coming on this case, he had rescued a two year old girl from a pedofile who had her for two days. The man is a hero. Period.:cool:

I agree.I thought he was a real trooper.Esp. in light of all he was put through when he was just trying to do his job,and trying to do the right thing by JB,in spite of being continually stonewalled.And to be sick on top of it all,at that ...my mom had thyroid problems too,and I saw how sick she was,and so when I read all that he did,on top of being sick,that impressed me greatly and I think there are very, very few ppl in the world who would have the courage and determination to do what he did.Just seeing firsthand how thyroid problems can make someone so sick,you had to know that he had a real spirit and determination for doing the right thing. :)
 
  • #223
I agree.I thought he was a real trooper.Esp. in light of all he was put through when he was just trying to do his job,and trying to do the right thing by JB,in spite of being continually stonewalled.And to be sick on top of it all,at that ...my mom had thyroid problems too,and I saw how sick she was,and so when I read all that he did,on top of being sick,that impressed me greatly and I think there are very, very few ppl in the world who would have the courage and determination to do what he did.Just seeing firsthand how thyroid problems can make someone so sick,you had to know that he had a real spirit and determination for doing the right thing. :)


What does BORG stand for?
 
  • #224
I have always suspected that PR killed JB accidentally in anger. She was able to get JR to help her cover it up because she was aware of his sexual abuse of JB and would have exposed him. Maybe she had proof hidden away and used that as leverage to secure his help and secrecy. They both had dirt on each other, which kept them together, bound by their lies.

If I had dirt on someone I would to make sure they didn't roll over on me after my death.PR may have given close friends and family members (Nedra, her sisters) copies of her ecidence, or at least her written suspicion (assuming she had it) that JR was molesting JB. JR would never be able to tell the whole story about JB's murder because he wold incriminate himself.

Just my theory, of course :angel:
 
  • #225
I have always suspected that PR killed JB accidentally in anger. She was able to get JR to help her cover it up because she was aware of his sexual abuse of JB and would have exposed him. Maybe she had proof hidden away and used that as leverage to secure his help and secrecy. They both had dirt on each other, which kept them together, bound by their lies.

If I had dirt on someone I would to make sure they didn't roll over on me after my death.PR may have given close friends and family members (Nedra, her sisters) copies of her ecidence, or at least her written suspicion (assuming she had it) that JR was molesting JB. JR would never be able to tell the whole story about JB's murder because he wold incriminate himself.

Just my theory, of course :angel:

Hi there.

I have to disagree. I think it was an explosion of rage on the part of Patsy and then remorse and shock set in at what she had done and John helped her because he realized she did not "mean for that to happen". It was over at that point and what would be the purpose of sending Patsy to jail. HOWEVER, he did make sure he had his own attorney and Patsy had hers. I also do not think there was sexual abuse of JonBenet. I think the abuse happened that night as a part of staging. :D
 
  • #226
I almost think Patsy had something on John to get him to comply so completely...or the other way around.

Borg is bent on Ramsey guilt or believer of Ramsey guilt. I never use that label, though, I find it mildly offensive. I just call myself an RDI, or more specifically, a PDI.
 
  • #227
Hi there.

I also do not think there was sexual abuse of JonBenet. I think the abuse happened that night as a part of staging. :D

Perhaps, but if I recall, JB showed many of the classics signs a child often presents with when being molested- bedwetting, temper tantrums, vaginal irritation- of course, many kids who are not being abused also may have these symtoms/behaviors, but I think it is highly suspect.

Throw in a wife who probably isn't interested in performing "wifely duties", and a daughter who is dressed up like a hooker and performs provacative dance routines, and it sets off my hinky meter.

I can't see any otherwise loving parent sexually assaulting their child- I think it would be way too disturbing. Maybe a parent who plotted to kill their child, but a parent who killed their child in a fit of anger? I realize any parent who could wig out and beat or strike their child the way I think Patsy did is unstable, but sticking an object in her vagina is differnt, IMO.hbgb

Then again, I think patsy had jealousy issues with JB (because I think she knew JR found her sexually appealing) so she may have been nutty enough to sexually abuse her as part of the staging.

I still think PR had something on John to get him to cooperate.
 
  • #228
Perhaps, but if I recall, JB showed many of the classics signs a child often presents with when being molested- bedwetting, temper tantrums, vaginal irritation- of course, many kids who are not being abused also may have these symtoms/behaviors, but I think it is highly suspect. Every one of their children wet the bed, boys too. They just were very lax about teaching them hygiene. Patsy had been sick with cancer and left it to her mother, who did nothing. JB's underwear were always damp and the reason for her rashes. As far as temper tantrums go, I am sure she was spoiled, she was use to getting everything she wanted. I do not believe she was molested by John.

Throw in a wife who probably isn't interested in performing "wifely duties", and a daughter who is dressed up like a hooker and performs provacative dance routines, and it sets off my hinky meter.

I can't see any otherwise loving parent sexually assaulting their child- I think it would be way too disturbing. Maybe a parent who plotted to kill their child, but a parent who killed their child in a fit of anger? I realize any parent who could wig out and beat or strike their child the way I think Patsy did is unstable, but sticking an object in her vagina is differnt, IMO.hbgb I can see someone doing it if they had slammed their child against a bathtub in a fit of rage and heard her skull crack in half and realized she is dead and so am I if I don't think of something. She has cancer and knows she will be dead in most likely ten years and did not want to spend it in prison.

Then again, I think patsy had jealousy issues with JB (because I think she knew JR found her sexually appealing) so she may have been nutty enough to sexually abuse her as part of the staging. How do you know that John found her sexually appealing. She was six years old. You cannot be sure of that?

I still think PR had something on John to get him to cooperate.
Your entitled.
 
  • #229
Dude, wetting the bed is one thing, but JonBenet's situation went well beyond mere bed-wetting. According to Patsy in PMPT, JB had "frequent infections that were hard to clear up because her underpants were always wet" and in ST, Nedra Paugh states that JB did not wipe well after a bowel movement and needed an adult to clean her up.

The other Ramsey children did not experience that level of incontinence and lax hygiene. Wetting the bed is nowhere near the same as enduring "frequent" infections due to lengthy exposure to wetness during the day as well as at night, and I've never heard anyone say the other Ramsey children had Hershey stripes in all their underwear, either, needing someone else to clean their bottoms at age 6.

Something was very wrong in JonBenet's life. Her situation was not normal, was not average, and was not experienced to anywhere near the same degree by her older siblings.

I think Patsy was jealous of JB, too, but not over sex. More like youth and beauty and attention.
 
  • #230
I didn't say he DID, of course, I can't prove he did- I said "I think he did". I guess I should have said "Maybe he did" to support my theory.
 
  • #231
Dude, wetting the bed is one thing, but JonBenet's situation went well beyond mere bed-wetting. According to Patsy in PMPT, JB had "frequent infections that were hard to clear up because her underpants were always wet" and in ST, Nedra Paugh states that JB did not wipe well after a bowel movement and needed an adult to clean her up.

The other Ramsey children did not experience that level of incontinence and lax hygiene. Wetting the bed is nowhere near the same as needing infections due to lengthy exposure to wetness during the day as well as at night, and I've never heard anyone say the other Ramsey children had Hershey stripes in all their underwear, either, needing someone else to clean their bottoms at age 6.

Something was very wrong in JonBenet's life. Her situation was not normal, was not average, and was not experienced to anywhere near the same degree by her older siblings.

I think Patsy was jealous of JB, too, but not over sex. More like youth and beauty and attention.


Hi Nuisance,

I agree there was something very wrong in her life. The pageants alone were enough. But as far as her underwear being dirty, she is six years old and had just turned six that August. I don't think it is unreasonable to assume that unless a child of that age is "helped", her underwear will be dirty. I think she had constantly damp underwear and anyone with constantly damp underwear is going to experience ongoing rashes. I don't know that she had infections - I have used that adjective myself in the past, but I think if she had infections, it would have been in the doctor's reports, because an infection is much more serious than a rash. A rash will keep one in a lot of discomfort and there is probably constant scratching, as with an infection. I have never read anything about the other children having dirty underwear, but I would not doubt it especially if Burke also wet his bed. I think John did say all his children wet their beds. But how much we can believe John is another story. I would bet they did.
 
  • #232
I just can't believe that John would cover her crime if he didn't also have a skeleton inthe closet.

If my husband brutally murdered my daughter, there is no way I would help him cover it up. I don't know if I could keep myself from attempting to kill him.
 
  • #233
I just can't believe that John would cover her crime if he didn't also have a skeleton inthe closet.

If my husband brutally murdered my daughter, there is no way I would help him cover it up. I don't know if I could keep myself from attempting to kill him.

There are those that would agree with you about John's skeleton, but I just don't see it. I think he knew JonBenet was dead and I think he decided to help her because he knew that it she "did not mean for this to happen" and he felt sorry for her. I think he was going to take care of himself if need be by getting his own lawyer.
 
  • #234
I almost think Patsy had something on John to get him to comply so completely...or the other way around.

Borg is bent on Ramsey guilt or believer of Ramsey guilt. I never use that label, though, I find it mildly offensive. I just call myself an RDI, or more specifically, a PDI.

Thanks Nuisance.
 
  • #235
Was there ever any other evidence that Patsy had struck or beaten JB in the past? I don't recall ever reading anything to suggest she had ever been violent with her. Kind of hard to believe that the one time she lost her temper, JB ended up dead.
 
  • #236
According to Patsy, she had to apply Desitin to JonBenet twice a week. Patsy told Detectives that JonBenet's panties were usually damp.

One big indicator that we have not discussed as far as children who are being sexually abused is masturbation. Children who are molested usually become hypersexual and they tend to masturbate. Never have I read anywhere that JonBenet masturbated. LHP did claim that she caught JonBenet and Burke playing Doctor a couple of times.

Steve Thomas claims that one end of Patsy's paintbrush was inserted in JonBenets vagina. He states this because a piece of bifringement material was found in her vagina.

There is something suspicious about Steve Thomas statement in that I believe that there is more to the story.

What if the "missing piece" of the paintbrush was found in her vagina?
 
  • #237
My theory came about by simple addition.

Add up the known information.

JonBenet visits school nurse two Mondays just before Christmas
and weekend at home.

Outdoor lights off, that were normally NEVER off.
Burglar alarm not set, would seem someone was coming LATER,
who would turn it on when they got there OR it was THE
secret visit from the unknown Santa Claus.

No proof of break in.
Strangling device made from Ramsey home material (paint brush)
Ramsey household pad, pen used for note.

Plane sold to pilot at discounted rate end of 1997.
Attorneys acquired for relatives in GEORGIA, WHY!
911 call two days before Christmas, a NON FRIEND answered the
door but would even open the door to the officer.

Key to home WAS kept at one time, in the front yard hiding
place.

Pediatrician one of the first to arrive at the R home to
help PR with sedative. ODD to me ODD.

Jon Benet found crying on the stair at the party of the 23rd,
two days BEFORE she was murdered. Crying that she was not
pretty.

Feb. 1997, man in Waterford MI comes forward saying someone
who said they were JAR JR, tried to hire him to have a killing
boat accident for JonBenet.

JR lost older daughter to accident in GA
JBR murdered night of 12/25/96

IF a relative accidentally strangled JonBenet, would the parents
keep up the front that a perp did IT. I believe so --
BECAUSE IF THEY didn't they would then lose one more family
member to a life long prison sentence.

Another book needs to be written, and call it "Another American
Tragedy".

IF IF IF the PR did it folks are correct, then we LOSE a mother to
the prison system.

IF IF IF JR did it, then ditto to the prison system. I doubt
that PR would cover for JR, but stranger things have happened, I
don't know, I only guess with the limited public information
available to us all. The killer knows who did IT, or as
PR said on CNN shortly afterward, the killer may have confided
in another person.

I would have to agree with that.

HOW to live with guilty knowledge and cover for a family
member is a mighty load to carry FOREVER.

.
 
  • #238
The killer knows who did IT, or as
PR said on CNN shortly afterward, the killer may have confided
in another person.

I would have to agree with that.


me too.I think she had a frame of reference for saying it.

HOW to live with guilty knowledge and cover for a family
member is a mighty load to carry FOREVER.

.
it is,it's a lot to internalize.I think it would cause a lot of inward frustatration and depression,and possible anxiety as well.although I think JR was still going thru a lot of that from his 1st daughter's death.
I tend to think it's possible she had something on him as well.
He seems to be a lot more relaxed in the interveiws,since PR's death...a relieved sort of look and behavior to him.and even laughing that Karr is 'just a normal looking guy'??? what????
 
  • #239
Feb. 1997, man in Waterford MI comes forward saying someone
who said they were JAR JR, tried to hire him to have a killing
boat accident for JonBenet.
.

JAR tried to hire a hit on JonBenet?

Why is this new to me?

Can anyone give more details about this?
 
  • #240
Who, who would JAR forgive???

Dad, Burke? You bet!

Step-mother? Maybe after talking to dear old Dad?
 

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