Is this what the one/ones who staged it had in mind??

[madeleine]

1 How about the book Mind?
2 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
3 TOM HANEY: Do you recall that? Do you
4 recall seeing it around the house?
5 PATSY RAMSEY: Huh-uh.
6 TOM HANEY: You were not reading.
7 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
8 TOM HANEY: It is a book by John Douglas.
9 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know.
10 TOM HANEY: Do you know who he is?


AND
when her answer is no she says NO
Usually when she says uh-huh it means yes.

Just read all her interviews....she says uh huh when it means to be yes.


MOO :twocents:

 

[madeleine]

Reflecting now on his interviews with the Ramseys, Kane said, "I never felt like I was getting a spontaneous response."

"John Ramsey always left me with the impression that he was a very smart man, and he is very careful at answering questions," Kane said. "Whereas, Patsy struck me as somebody that just had an answer in advance of the question, and just kind of resorted to an 'I don't know' if she didn't have an answer in advance."

He's good.

 

[madeleine]

All this stuff convinces me even more that it was no accident but someone in that house was a very sick puppy.
Were both?Dunno,their religious talk creeps me out.
Was only one sick and lied &manipulated the other?Dunno.

 

[madeleine]

"MINDHUNTER was not there on John's nightstand or elsewhere in the house, and I looked through the place pretty carefully. "-JD

-----------------------

But Douglas also conceded that all the information for his "private" investigation came from the Ramsey team.

http://edition.cnn.com/US/9701/31/ramsey.murder/index.html?iref=allsearch

-----------------------------

Of course it "wasn't"....lol..................

 

[madeleine]

and this............

"they didn't know who John Douglas was until after the murder"

same like they didn't know that it was their pineapple bowl on the table..........

 

[freshwater]

I remember Larry Gene Bell from the 45 times I've seen his case on Forensic Files/Cold Case Files. They caught him by using a technique on the note he had his victim send to her family where they found an impression of a phone number that led to him. The impression had been caused by him writing on one of the previous pages of the notepad.

He was one evil SOB. South Carolina put him down years ago, thankfully.

 

[DeeDee249]

and this............

"they didn't know who John Douglas was until after the murder"

same like they didn't know that it was their pineapple bowl on the table..........

Let's not forget she didn't think it was her tissue box either, or their flashlight, though she admitted having one "just like it" yet couldn't say why theirs was not in the drawer she kept it in. That drawer is seen open in crime photos she was shown, and she herself said it was where they kept "their" flashlight. When asked if the flashlight was in the drawer (which it was obviously not), she said no, she couldn't see it. When asked if the flashlight on the counter could be the one from the drawer, she said she "didn't know".

Well, since the Rs never returned to that house after the murder, how could the JD book on the nightstand have been the "newer one"- that wasn't even out yet? And not only that, how could he have JB books there at all if he hadn't heard of him before the murder and he didn't live there after the murder?

Patsy claimed in her interviews not to recognize a bat in a crime photo. It was a softball bat, not a baseball bat. Patsy claimed she knew nothing about baseball or softball, yet she used to play on a women's softball team.

 

[SunnieRN]

1 MIKE KANE: Okay. What about "Mind
2 Hunter", John Douglas's book was there in the
3 house, had you purchased that?4 JOHN RAMSEY: No. It was there in
5 '96? Interesting.
6 MIKE KANE: Was it interesting?
7 JOHN RAMSEY: I never never heard
8 of John Douglas or that book before.
9 MIKE KANE: So you never read that?
10 JOHN RAMSEY: No. I bought one of
11 his books the next summer, his newer book.


1 How about the book Mind?
2 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
3 TOM HANEY: Do you recall that? Do you
4 recall seeing it around the house?
5 PATSY RAMSEY: Huh-uh.
6 TOM HANEY: You were not reading.
7 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
8 TOM HANEY: It is a book by John Douglas.
9 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know.
10 TOM HANEY: Do you know who he is?
11 PATSY RAMSEY: John Douglas I know.





So the book was there but neither of them read it.okay...........

The Ramseys wondered why no one ever believed anything they said. Well this is a fine example of JR lying. Didn't have the book, but had the later one, um yea right. Wasn't reading it, but was found open in his room. Never knew who John Douglas was, but knew the book he bought later, was his 'newer book'. Sure, makes a lot of sense, not! Double speak doesn't look good when LE is trying to solve a murder.

 

[SunnieRN]

Bye the way, I have read several times that Johns daughter had a boyfriend, that spoke to John, prior to Jon Benet being found. According to what I read, John told him that Jon Benet was dead, prior to 'finding' her.

What's up with this and isn't this in all matter of fact an admission of guilt?

 

[joeskidbeck]

Sunnie, go to the link I am posting and read the post by Nuisanceposter. It's post # 28. It should explain this very well:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39679&highlight=stewart+long+melinda+ramsey&page=2

Please let me know if the link doesn't work and I will try to fix it.
Thanks
Becky

 

[SunnieRN]

Thank you Beck, I appreciate it and the link worked great. I stand corrected on this matter as I have read for years that John had told Stewart Long PRIOR to finding the body, that she was dead.

After I posted, instead of before, I searched for information that would go along with and confirm my statement. Of course I couldn't find any.

This site goes along with the Websleuths poster Beck listed above.

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/WAS+T...MURDEREDBY+HER+BROTHER+AGED+9?...-a0109747225

Does this still signify guilt? In my mind it certainly places doubt of innocence, since this is when John disappeared for so long.

Thanks again Beck.

 

[BBB167893]

I've got something that might tie into what madeleine's saying, in case it hasn't been posted yet: http://www.corpus-delicti.com/ressler_jbr.html

A few highlights:

"I've talked to a number of people in the law enforcement field, the medical field, the prosecutor, one of the prosecutors out there, even some of the domestic help of the Ramseys and some media people as well. I've been to the location of the house, I've been around the house, I've looked at the neighborhood and I do not ascribe at all to the concept that a stranger broke into the house and, in an attempt to kidnap or abduct JonBenet, killed her and wrote the note, and then left. I believe it was some sort of an internal situation that occurred that I believe the Ramseys-- Mr. and Mrs. Ramsey, and possibly their son, Burke-- have more information available that they could provide police than they've held back in their non-cooperation they've put themselves in a position of being major suspects. But I've always believed that JonBenet was killed as a result of an accident that was being covered up. I'm not saying whether or not Ramsey's parents or the brother were involved in the actual killing, but I think that the entire elaborate staging was done to conceal the true facts of what really happened to that child."

Q. " What is the significance of the blanket covering JonBenét body that was found in the basement? What does this mean in terms of profiling--what does it tell you about the needs of the perpetrator?"

"Ressler: Well often times the covering of a body, and in particular the covering of the facial features, from a profiling standpoint indicates a personal knowledge of that individual and it's an act of retribution of sort and an act of undoing. In other words, it becomes a matter of guilt on the part of the individual. It does not indicate some psychopathic personality like the individual that killed Polly Klaas. That's not what you'd see in that type of case. It's more or less a person that's known the child, and feels remorse for the crime."

Q. Is that a staged aspect of the crime, or is that...

"Ressler: No, I don't think that's necessarily a staged aspect as much as it is a reflection of the the guilt and the remorse on the part of the killer. Either intentional or accidental."

Regarding the Ransom Note, Ressler said:
"The two gentlemen watching over your daughter do not particularly like you so I advise you not to provoke them. Speaking to anyone about your situation such as police or FBI will result in your daughter being beheaded.... Use that good, southern common sense of yours.''

Ressler said this passage and others that provide information about the kidnappers show the writer has no criminal experience.

"Kidnap notes do not give information," Ressler said. "They don't tell you how many people are in the organization, they don't tell you they are going to behead your daughter and they don't tell you the kind of container to use to get the money."

In addition, he said, the note, "reflects a person whose knowledge of kidnapping comes from movies and books."

Hmm. As in Mindhunter?

 

[Toltec]

DeeDee...I had forgotten Patsy was on a woman's softball team. Was the team named "Mothers gone Bad"?

If Melody Stanton heard a child's scream, than her husband heard a sound of metal hitting concrete...then why was JonBenet found wrapped up papoose style? If this killer ran out of the home, then who finished the job?

 

[UKGuy]

I've got something that might tie into what madeleine's saying. In an interview, FBI profiler Robert K. Ressler said the evidence, including the autopsy, suggests JonBenét was killed accidentally and "an elaborate cover-up was done to divert police away from the crime."

"I've talked to a number of people in the law enforcement field, the medical field, the prosecutor, one of the prosecutors out there, even some of the domestic help of the Ramseys and some media people as well. I've been to the location of the house, I've been around the house, I've looked at the neighborhood and I do not ascribe at all to the concept that a stranger broke into the house and, in an attempt to kidnap or abduct JonBenet, killed her and wrote the note, and then left. I believe it was some sort of an internal situation that occurred that I believe the Ramseys-- Mr. and Mrs. Ramsey, and possibly their son, Burke-- have more information available that they could provide police than they've held back in their non-cooperation they've put themselves in a position of being major suspects. But I've always believed that JonBenet was killed as a result of an accident that was being covered up. I'm not saying whether or not Ramsey's parents or the brother were involved in the actual killing, but I think that the entire elaborate staging was done to conceal the true facts of what really happened to that child."

Q. " What is the significance of the blanket covering JonBenét body that was found in the basement? What does this mean in terms of profiling--what does it tell you about the needs of the perpetrator?"

"Ressler: Well often times the covering of a body, and in particular the covering of the facial features, from a profiling standpoint indicates a personal knowledge of that individual and it's an act of retribution of sort and an act of undoing. In other words, it becomes a matter of guilt on the part of the individual. It does not indicate some psychopathic personality like the individual that killed Polly Klaas. That's not what you'd see in that type of case. It's more or less a person that's known the child, and feels remorse for the crime."

Q. Is that a staged aspect of the crime, or is that...

"Ressler: No, I don't think that's necessarily a staged aspect as much as it is a reflection of the the guilt and the remorse on the part of the killer. Either intentional or accidental."

Regarding the Ransom Note, Ressler said:
"The two gentlemen watching over your daughter do not particularly like you so I advise you not to provoke them. Speaking to anyone about your situation such as police or FBI will result in your daughter being beheaded.... Use that good, southern common sense of yours.''

Ressler said this passage and others that provide information about the kidnappers show the writer has no criminal experience.

"Kidnap notes do not give information," Ressler said. "They don't tell you how many people are in the organization, they don't tell you they are going to behead your daughter and they don't tell you the kind of container to use to get the money."

In addition, he said, the note, "reflects a person whose knowledge of kidnapping comes from movies and books."

Hmm. As in Mindhunter?

SuperDave,

Yes sounds feasable, might be there is something in one of those John Douglas books that was used in the wine-cellar staging. Now I know that the barbie-doll and nightgown were linked, maybe this pattern is reflected in a John Douglas book?

In addition, he said, the note, "reflects a person whose knowledge of kidnapping comes from movies and books."

Note Ressler is talking about the blanket as if it was as he describes. John Ramsey describes it as wrapped papoose style with Fleet White remarking her feet were sticking out the bottom.

Just what is the barbie nightgown and doll doing in the wine-cellar, was the doll inside the blanket or was the blanket discarded on top of the doll? Either way as staging why would an intruder remove the doll and nightgown, note their generic branding, is this a coincidence, or part of a prior staging that was not removed?

Note: no mention of these items in the profiling.

.

 

[SunnieRN]

DeeDee...I had forgotten Patsy was on a woman's softball team. Was the team named "Mothers gone Bad"?

If Melody Stanton heard a child's scream, than her husband heard a sound of metal hitting concrete...then why was JonBenet found wrapped up papoose style? If this killer ran out of the home, then who finished the job?

Woah DeeDee, I have NEVER heard the comment that her husband heard metal hitting concrete. Very interesting comment. Guess we know why the softball bat had to be put outside and it sound as if the flashlight was the red herring to point away from the baseball bat!! Thank you!

 

[DeeDee249]

DeeDee...I had forgotten Patsy was on a woman's softball team. Was the team named "Mothers gone Bad"?

If Melody Stanton heard a child's scream, than her husband heard a sound of metal hitting concrete...then why was JonBenet found wrapped up papoose style? If this killer ran out of the home, then who finished the job?

I am sure your questions were rhetorical, but the answer is obvious of course. We know who finished the job. The same person(s) who started it. And they didn't need to run anywhere.

 

[madeleine]

Now I know that the barbie-doll and nightgown were linked, maybe this pattern is reflected in a John Douglas book?

* On page 350, Douglas tells how perverts are sometimes first turned on by Barbie Dolls. A pink Barbie nightdress was placed close to JonBenet's body - planted, detectives believe, to reinforce the idea she was the victim of a perverted intruder.

 

[Ames]

1998-08-04: Enquirer (Week of August 4, 1998):
Police reveal 'murder manual' found in mom & dad's bedroom

In a dramatic development in the JonBenet Ramsey murder case, police found a "hot-to murder manual" in the bedroom of the little beauty queen's parents!

The true-crime book describes a 1985 murder with amazing similarities to the brutal killing of JonBenet, who would have turned 8 on August 6.

And incredibly, it was written by John Douglas, former head of the FBI's behavioral science unit - and one of the first experts hired by JonBenet's father John after he and wife Patsy set up their own investigation team.

"The book was among several found during a search of John and Patsy's bedroom after JohBenet's body was discovered in the basement," said a source close to the case. "One of the investigators recently read through it in detail and was stunned at what he saw in one chapter.

"For someone planning a murder or staging its aftermath, it could amount to a how-to manual."

The book "Mind Hunter," was published in 1995, the year before JonBenet was murdered.

It describes the case of Larry Gene Bell, who abducted and murdered high school senior Shari Faye Smith and a 9-year-old girl near Columbia, S.C.

And Douglas, who helped solve the killings, lists circumstances in the case that were later eerily echoed in the JonBenet murder:

* After snatching Shari, the killer called her mother. His first words to her were, "Listen carefully." In the JonBenet case, the ransom note - which cops believe was written by Patsy Ramsey - starts with the words, "Listen carefully!"

* Shari was suffocated with duct tape, which was later pulled from her mouth and nose. When John Ramsey found his daughter's body he ripped duct tape from her mouth.

* Before she was killed Shari wrote a "last will and testament" to her family on a legal pad. The fake JonBenet ransom note was written on a yellow legal pad.

* Shari's killer collected featuring bondage. JonBenet's hands had been bound with cord before she was murdered.

* Shari's sister Dawn later won the Miss South Carolina beauty title and went on to finish as a runner-up in the Miss America pageant. Patsy Ramsey is a former Miss West Virginia - and she also competed for the Miss America title.

Both John and Patsy were questioned about the book in June, and they dismissed the similarities between the book and JonBenet's murder as sheer coincidence, The Enquirer has learned.

But Gregg McCrary - Douglas' fellow FBI profiler who was also approached to work for the Ramseys and turned them down - declared: "The longer you are in my business, the less you believe in coincidences.

"I believe the JonBenet crime scene was staged. Many times when people stage a crime scene it's based on their perception of what a real criminal would do - and they get that information from books or movies.

"The grand jury will have to weight whether these are a series of coincidences - or something else.

I was born and raised in SC, and lived in Columbia for awhile...where this murder took place. I remember when this happened. This is part of Shari's Last Will and Testament.

Last Letter
Before he killed Shari Smith, Larry Gene Bell told her to write her last will and testament. Afterward, he mailed the letter to her family. Shari’s final words still strengthen Jordan and many others:

I love you Mommy, Daddy, Robert, Dawn & Richard (her boyfriend) and everyone else and all other friends and relatives. I’ll be with my Father now, so please, please don’t worry. Just remember my witty personality & great special times we all shared together. Please don’t even let this ruin your lives, just keep living one day at a time for Jesus. Some good will come out of this. My thoughts will always be with you & in you. Casket closed.
(After a personal note to Richard, Shari continues.) Mom, Dad, Robert & Dawn, there’s so much I want to say that I should have said before now. I love y’all! I know ya’ll love me and will miss me very much, but if ya’ll stick together like we always did – ya’ll can do it! Please do not become hard or upset. “Every thing works out for the good of those that love the Lord” (Romans 8:28).

----------------------------------------

 

[UKGuy]

* On page 350, Douglas tells how perverts are sometimes first turned on by Barbie Dolls. A pink Barbie nightdress was placed close to JonBenet's body - planted, detectives believe, to reinforce the idea she was the victim of a perverted intruder.

madeleine,

Good point. A doll and a nightgown at a crime-scene, now that cannot be comicidental?


.

 

[madeleine]

I was born and raised in SC, and lived in Columbia for awhile...where this murder took place. I remember when this happened. This is part of Shari's Last Will and Testament.

Last Letter
Before he killed Shari Smith, Larry Gene Bell told her to write her last will and testament. Afterward, he mailed the letter to her family. Shari’s final words still strengthen Jordan and many others:

I love you Mommy, Daddy, Robert, Dawn & Richard (her boyfriend) and everyone else and all other friends and relatives. I’ll be with my Father now, so please, please don’t worry. Just remember my witty personality & great special times we all shared together. Please don’t even let this ruin your lives, just keep living one day at a time for Jesus. Some good will come out of this. My thoughts will always be with you & in you. Casket closed.
(After a personal note to Richard, Shari continues.) Mom, Dad, Robert & Dawn, there’s so much I want to say that I should have said before now. I love y’all! I know ya’ll love me and will miss me very much, but if ya’ll stick together like we always did – ya’ll can do it! Please do not become hard or upset. “Every thing works out for the good of those that love the Lord” (Romans 8:28).

----------------------------------------

@bold
wow,this is something that PR said as well...