Israel - Palestinian militants launch massive attack, 7 Oct 2023 #12

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  • #661
Abu-bu Marzouk said in an interview (yesterday) that Hamas can't locate all the hostages. Is this a delay tactic or just his usual lies?? If they make a release deal... will they only show up with the ones they supposedly can find... or ??
Does 'can't find' mean they are dead and buried?
 
  • #662
An analysis on the prisoner exchange file in the coming thread as the situation escalates:


--- In the past 24 hours, the Hamas politburo leaders in Qatar and the Americans claim that a deal to release captives in Gaza is very close. Two parties do not confirm anything: The Israelis and the Hamas leadership in Gaza (particularly Sinwar)

--- The Israeli pundits frequently express skepticism that Sinwar, who is a master of the Israeli psyche, is simply using the talks to delay the ground invasion of the south, and cause disarray in the Israeli public by floating the possibility of releasing the most sensitive captives

--- However, all of the pressure from the Israeli incursion leads many parties to believe that Hamas is ready to release 53 captives, mostly the small Israeli children and their mothers, in exchange for several days of ceasefire, with the following framework.
--- Hamas releases 10 captives in exchange for 24 hours of ceasefire, and continues to release until five days have expired. If Hamas can find additional captives, it could receive another day of ceasefire accordingly and maybe even release up to 100.
--- In exchange the Israelis agree to increase aid into Gaza and release female and minors that are being held in its jails as security prisoners.
But the sticking points to the deal are as follows:

1. Israel does not believe Hamas even knows where all of the captives are, as some captives from Al Aqsa Floods incursion are being held by the fringe factions and even Gaza crime families.
------- As an example to this, the Fatah's Al Aqsa Martyrs' brigades in Gaza claimed that they "successfully transferred" their captives to the "proper authorities" in recent days, likely as an attempt to build confidence from the Israelis
(2 x photos at link )

2. Hamas demands that during the captives hand-over, Israel does not fly any of its reconnaissance planes over Gaza, as Hamas fears they could track the origins of the captives to the underground command centers.
 
  • #663

How is the blockade enforced?

People, food, fuel, internet, power and water cannot leave or enter Gaza without permission from Israel.

Egypt has a land crossing in the south, Rafah, but in practice, the military regime in Cairo – an enemy of Hamas and ally with Israel’s most powerful backer, the US – acts as an enforcer of the blockade.

Israel says the blockade is for its own security, citing repeated Hamas rocket attacks and incursions.

But UN experts say the blockade, and intense bombing during five wars on Gaza, amounts to collective punishment on civilians, a war crime under international law.
Human Rights Watch describes Gaza as an “open-air prison”.


You are partly right when you say "certainly not freedom for Palestinians". I don't know how many still living ever lived in a truly free society. For example if the local authority rationed or cut off your mains water supply there is redress by voting them out.

The Palestinians forced from their homes into Gaza are the true forgotten Tribe of Israel. They just have never had the the rights expected in a free society: then they haven't lived in one for generations.
My opinion
HOWEVER, Hamas found a way to have food, water, fuel power, wifi, etc.

They stole all of the above from the generous foreign aid given to Gaza. If Hamas stopped ripping off that foreign aid, the people would have the assets and supplies they need.

If Hamas spent the money they spend on munitions and tunnels on their people and improving GAZA, there would not be all of these problems with blockades and incursions.

Hamas could have focused upon building a strong society and prospered instead of creating chaos and violence.

People complain about Israel as the aggressor, but they are reacting to what they see, as Hamas continues to build up their munitions and air strikes.

Hamas could choose to build up Gaza and focus on creating an efficient, peaceful state, if they wanted to do so. Gaza would not be under such scrutiny if Hamas wasn't teaching young children to become martyrs by training to kill Jews someday, to please their families and their God.
 
  • #664


Ref / 1 month ago: This whole video is unbelievable, jmo.

*Amazing how many instances on Google there are of tearing down and defacing hostage flyers
The first video makes me happy and the second angers me.

As some would say, it highlights the total lack of compassion for Israelis and the denial of the October 7th 2023 massacre.
 
  • #665
Gaza has a local government, but they aren't a country. They don't have Palestinian passports. Palestine only has observer status at the UN. There is no citizenship. Most residents of Gaza have no citizenship in any country. Hence, they are refugees. Until they become a country, they will be considered refugees because they are stateless.

Israel controls the Gaza Strip's northern borders, as well as its territorial waters and airspace. Egypt controls Gaza Strip's southern border, under an agreement between it and Israel. Neither Israel or Egypt permits free travel from Gaza as both borders are heavily militarily fortified.


Despite the 2005 Israeli disengagement from Gaza, the United Nations, international human rights organisations, and the majority of governments and legal commentators consider the territory to be still occupied by Israel, supported by additional restrictions placed on Gaza by Egypt.


__________________

Gaza doesn't have an airport. It can't fly planes. Residents can't take their boats out past 3 miles. Israel has a blockade on Gaza.
Why doesn't Egypt allow free travel between it and Gaza?
 
  • #666
  • #667

"This tactic was used by Napoleon,

and today Hamas uses it.

This is why Israel still cannot defeat it.

Although Israel has overwhelming conventional advantages and U.S. support,
it still cannot defeat Hamas.

All thanks to the tactics it uses to paralyze the enemy's forces.
An attack in open terrain using several mechanized vehicles and mortars would be suicide for Hamas.

Recognizing significant technological differences and the disproportion of power in Israel's favor, it adjusts its actions.


For example,
in Ukraine, the extensive use of drones has provided greater visibility of the battlefield - meaning there are few places to hide significant combat power, logistical facilities and command posts.

Hamas is trying to take away this advantage in Gaza from Israel.

Its fighters are hiding in apartment buildings, labyrinths of tunnels, as well as mosques, schools and hospitals, trying to 'blend in' with the civilian population.

Equally important,
by dispersing its forces and logistical supplies, Hamas is trying to create the impression that it is much smaller and has much fewer strategic goals than it actually is.

As Israel detects broadcast signals more effectively, Hamas has changed its tactics accordingly -
sending fewer signals.

The militant group knows that phone calls and other instant messaging will quickly be detected by the enemy, as will text communications.
Therefore, it has created strict rules for the use of mobile phones, thus reducing the risk of the adversary detecting messages about planned events, such as the attacks on October 7.

Precision weapons – from man-portable Javelins to long-range ATACMS guided missiles – are everywhere now. The ability to combine drone sensors with precision-guided artillery, JDAM missiles, and anti-tank weapons is a commander's dream come true - one shot, one kill.
It no longer takes hundreds of artillery shells or bombs to attack a target when a single JDAM missile or drone can blow up an entire headquarters.

Israel has the same capabilities, but in the Gaza Strip it plays a much smaller role.

There, Israel's overwhelming advantage is diminished by Hamas's camouflage and tunnels, as well as the fact that it has only a few missile launch sites and mortar positions.

It has virtually no large military formations, mechanized vehicles or ammunition stocks that could become the target of attack.

We should also not forget that the side that chooses the time, place and method of fighting has the advantage in war.

In the past, Napoleon was a master of this,
today Hamas uses it -
it is not without reason that it initiates military operations in dense, crowded urban areas.


This is by far the most difficult form of fighting, and it helps eliminate Israel's enormous numerical, equipment and technological advantage.

There is much to be said for Hamas's communications strategy, ardent population and radical ideology.

However,
its ability to minimize the impact of the latest technologies that proved crucial in the war in Ukraine cannot be overlooked.

Over the past year, the world has watched as the Russian Goliath tries to destroy Ukraine, which, thanks to new technologies, is fighting on an equal footing with the aggressor.

However, this will not be the case in Gaza.
Hamas certainly won't win, but that doesn't mean it will definitely lose."


"Hamas is trying to take away this advantage in Gaza from Israel.

Its fighters are hiding in apartment buildings, labyrinths of tunnels, as well as mosques, schools and hospitals, trying to 'blend in' with the civilian population.


Equally important,
by dispersing its forces and logistical supplies, Hamas is trying to create the impression that it is much smaller and has much fewer strategic goals than it actually is."



So do you believe now, that Hamas has been hiding its weapons and terrorists in tunnels under schools, mosques, etc?
If so, what should Israel do in trying to eradicate the people who invaded their homes last month?
 
  • #668
Well, I went to that site and clicked on "donate" just to see what it was all about..LOL


I wonder if it really works or anything? I know nothing about cryptocurrency. I don't know if those are even legit donation links or what.
If they are working donation links, I hope Israel scoops up the currency and passes it on to the victims and hostages families.
 
  • #669
A protest to highlight the number of children killed in Gaza since Israel began its military campaign has been taking place in Istanbul in Turkey. Children's shoes and the photographs of victims of Israeli airstrikes have been left in Üsküdar Square. Health officials in Gaza have claimed that at least 5,000 children have been killed by the assault so far.

8256.jpg

A view of the shoes and pictures of children left in Istanbul. Photograph: Anadolu Agency/Anadolu/Getty Images

At the same time the Times of Israel reports that another protest is taking place in Tel Aviv, where Hadas Calderon, the mother of two children abducted by Hamas on 7 October, is protesting outside the IDF headquarters in Israel’s capital.

“We must not miss this chance for a deal,” she told reporters. “I call on all the mothers to come to the entrance to the Kirya [the name of the IDF HQ], and to stand alongside me. We must bring them home.”

Her children Erez, 12, and Sahar, 16 are believed to be in Gaza, among the 30 teenagers and young children thought to have been kidnapped.

 
  • #670
i think the term pro Palestine means different things to different people, IMO.

For example, I am anti Hamas and horrified by their actions in October. However, I am also against the slaughter of innocent Gazan and West Bank Palestinians.

I don’t believe a word that former ambassador said, and am disgusted by it.
The Palestinian people live in many Middle Eastern countries, and not just the Gaza strip, which many consider an open air prison. Hamas is a Terrorist Org, and many doubt they will be wiped out, even as Gaza is leveled-genocide of many innocents, some UN workers, Peace/Aide workers, from many countries. The Israeli people have been protesting Netanyahu for some time as well, as he has removed any powers from the Courts in Israel. As the IDF pushes across borders, WWII is assured, just as Putin is doing in and around Ukraine. Sickening. MOO
PS: Not all of us can read/see posts from X-an untrusted platform in my view, as well.
 
  • #671
FACT CHECK BY NEWSWEEK
Did Israel build bunker under the hospital?


The IDF, which has called on all militants within the hospital to surrender, has said publicly since the conflict escalated following Hamas' initial October 7 attack that the group's continued military use of the hospital "jeopardizes its protected status under international law, and enabled ample time to stop this unlawful abuse of the hospital."

The Claim
HA, who is described on X, formerly Twitter, as a social activist, wrote in a post published on Wednesday that Israel built the bunker beneath the hospital in 1983, when it controlled Gaza.

She referenced a 2014 story published by Tablet magazine, which alluded to multiple news outlets' reports about conflict at that time between Israel and Hamas. The magazine stated without attribution that the bunker was built in 1983.

HA's claim, which has been echoed by some on social media, states that Israel's raid of the hospital it controls does not provide justification but makes the nation more culpable in its purported violence.

"Israel has still not presented any proof that Hamas has been using the hospital or the bunker that Israel built as its 'command and control,'" HA said. "Both local and foreign doctors have denied any such allegation, and Israel rejected offers to have an international delegation inspect."

She added: "There is no one to document except the military itself, which will show you what it wants the world to believe."

Newsweek has examined the context of these statements to judge the comparison's fairness and accuracy.

The Facts
The bunker, reportedly constructed decades ago, includes a secure underground operating room and tunnel network.

Reports by left-wing Israeli newspaper Haaretz and other outlets have specifically mentioned the hospital's Building No. 2, which it says was built as an add-on in the mid-1980s and contains a large cement basement initially intended for laundry and administrative tasks.

The excavation of the underground concrete floor was corroborated by online English-language Israeli publication Ynetnews.

Last week, IDF spokesman, Rear Adm. Daniel Hagari, said in a series of media briefings that the nation's intelligence has proven that Hamas occupies the bunker as its main command area.

The Ruling
True.

Multiple sources have corroborated that a bunker or basement was built at Israel's discretion in the 1980s.

It remains unclear whether Hamas operates the space beneath the hospital as a major military headquarters, even though the IDF has presented evidence of weapons stashed in the hospital.
 
  • #672
Gazan women are expected to give birth to 5,500 babies in the next month.


Michael Ryan, a senior World Health Organization official, said Monday that care for complex medical cases is no longer available in Gaza and that remaining facilities would likely be overwhelmed by some 5,500 births expected in the next month.

“The hospital situation – the primary health care system situation – in Gaza is catastrophic,” he said. In the north, “it is the worst you can imagine.”

 
  • #673
Gaza negotiations 'substantive' - Tánaiste

001f04da-521.jpg


The Tánaiste (Irish deputy prime minister) has said he hopes that discussions around a ceasefire in Gaza and the release of hostages held by Hamas will come to a conclusion very quickly.

Speaking this morning, Micheál Martin said that while the Government would like to see the release of all hostages, it was particularly focused on the case of Irish-Israeli girl Emily Hand (pictured).

He said the Government had spoken to all of those with influence in the region. Mr Martin said all children and elderly people should be prioritised for release.

The Tánaiste said that negotiations have been ongoing for ten days and "until one sees it, one has to be guarded".

Mr Martin said that he was conscious that for the families involved there hadn't been the possibility of verification of all hostages because the International Committee of the Red Cross has not had access.

He said the negotiations had been substantive and he hoped that a number of hostages would emerge.

 
  • #674
There has been very little official comment from Israel on the prospect of a deal with Hamas over the release of hostages. Prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu has frequently insisted there could be no ceasefire until all the hostages were released, and earlier today national security minister Itamar Ben-Gvir cautioned against a deal.

However, Reuters notes that Israel’s Channel 12 television quoted an unidentified senior government source earlier today saying “they are close” but gave no further details.

Any agreement would mark the biggest hostage release and first prisoner swap since the latest war began on 7 October. Hamas is thought to have taken about 240 hostages during its attack inside Israel, which Israeli authorities claim killed 1,200 people. Four hostages have been released so far, with some people initially thought to have been held, including Noa Marciano and Shani Louk, later declared killed.

Earlier Al Jazeera presented statistics on Palestinians held in Israeli jails, reporting that before 7 October, there were about 5,200 Palestinians held, and there have been at least 2,960 arrested since then. It reports that among those being held by Israel are “at least 95 women and 37 journalists” and “at least 145 of them are children, according to rights and monitoring groups”.

 
  • #675

"This tactic was used by Napoleon,

and today Hamas uses it.

This is why Israel still cannot defeat it.

Although Israel has overwhelming conventional advantages and U.S. support,
it still cannot defeat Hamas.

All thanks to the tactics it uses to paralyze the enemy's forces.
An attack in open terrain using several mechanized vehicles and mortars would be suicide for Hamas.

Recognizing significant technological differences and the disproportion of power in Israel's favor, it adjusts its actions.


For example,
in Ukraine, the extensive use of drones has provided greater visibility of the battlefield - meaning there are few places to hide significant combat power, logistical facilities and command posts.

Hamas is trying to take away this advantage in Gaza from Israel.

Its fighters are hiding in apartment buildings, labyrinths of tunnels, as well as mosques, schools and hospitals, trying to 'blend in' with the civilian population.

Equally important,
by dispersing its forces and logistical supplies, Hamas is trying to create the impression that it is much smaller and has much fewer strategic goals than it actually is.

As Israel detects broadcast signals more effectively, Hamas has changed its tactics accordingly -
sending fewer signals.

The militant group knows that phone calls and other instant messaging will quickly be detected by the enemy, as will text communications.
Therefore, it has created strict rules for the use of mobile phones, thus reducing the risk of the adversary detecting messages about planned events, such as the attacks on October 7.

Precision weapons – from man-portable Javelins to long-range ATACMS guided missiles – are everywhere now. The ability to combine drone sensors with precision-guided artillery, JDAM missiles, and anti-tank weapons is a commander's dream come true - one shot, one kill.
It no longer takes hundreds of artillery shells or bombs to attack a target when a single JDAM missile or drone can blow up an entire headquarters.

Israel has the same capabilities, but in the Gaza Strip it plays a much smaller role.

There, Israel's overwhelming advantage is diminished by Hamas's camouflage and tunnels, as well as the fact that it has only a few missile launch sites and mortar positions.

It has virtually no large military formations, mechanized vehicles or ammunition stocks that could become the target of attack.

We should also not forget that the side that chooses the time, place and method of fighting has the advantage in war.

In the past, Napoleon was a master of this,
today Hamas uses it -
it is not without reason that it initiates military operations in dense, crowded urban areas.


This is by far the most difficult form of fighting, and it helps eliminate Israel's enormous numerical, equipment and technological advantage.

There is much to be said for Hamas's communications strategy, ardent population and radical ideology.

However,
its ability to minimize the impact of the latest technologies that proved crucial in the war in Ukraine cannot be overlooked.

Over the past year, the world has watched as the Russian Goliath tries to destroy Ukraine, which, thanks to new technologies, is fighting on an equal footing with the aggressor.

However, this will not be the case in Gaza.
Hamas certainly won't win, but that doesn't mean it will definitely lose."

Excellent post Dotta.
With apologies to those civilians killed and maimed; those displaced and lives ruined: had the Russians employed the Blitzkrieg tactics in Ukraine used against one terrorist group in Gaza by the might and power of the Israeli State -- they would have walked through it like a warm knife through butter.

The repercussions of Netanyahu's revenge for the atrocity which I suspect was triggered by
  • the change of Israeli legislation regarding settlement of the West Bank
  • and the release of prisoners held in Israeli jails
has to be looked at root and Branch. I am not at all sure that we have just watched and tolerated the destruction of a people and the creation of a recruiting sergeant for further worldwide instability.
My opinion
 
  • #676
BACONI: Hamas is an ideology. It's a movement that's committed to the liberation of Palestine. That ideology within Hamas is cloaked in an Islamist garb, but that ideology is not limited to Hamas. So even if Hamas militarily is severely hit by Israeli actions now, that ideology will reemerge because that's grounded in the political principles of the Palestinian struggle. So this military approach is really just a way to avoid dealing with the root cause of the problem.

 
  • #677
EU faces growing Muslim animosity over Gaza war stance - Borrell

The European Union faces growing animosity across the Muslim world and beyond due to accusations of pro-Israel bias and double standards over the war in Gaza, the bloc's foreign policy chief has warned.

Josep Borrell said he feared such acrimony could undermine diplomatic support for Ukraine in the Global South and the EU's ability to insist on human rights clauses in international agreements.

He said the EU had to show "more empathy" for the loss of Palestinian civilian lives in Israel's war against Hamas.

His comments came in interviews with Reuters during a five-day Middle East trip that took him to the rubble of Kibbutz Be'eri devastated by Hamas, the West Bank, a regional security conference in Bahrain and royal audiences in Qatar and Jordan.

 
  • #678
  • #679
2hr ago

Gaza hostage talks ‘closest’ to deal since start of war, Qatar says

Negotiations to free hostages seized in Hamas’s October 7 attack on Israel are at their “closest point” to a deal and have reached the “final stage,” mediator Qatar says.

“We are at the closest point we ever had been in reaching an agreement,” foreign ministry spokesperson Majed Al-Ansari says, adding negotiations have reached a “critical and final stage.”

55min ago

Germany urges Muslims to condemn Hamas attack on Israel

“I expect the Muslim organizations to clearly position themselves and uphold their responsibilities in society,” Interior Minister Nancy Faeser says in an interview with German broadcaster ARD.

The groups need to “clearly condemn” the attack by Hamas and not just with a “yes, but,” she says.

“It must be very clear. We stand by Israel’s side,” adds Faeser.

Some Muslim groups have indeed “lived up to their responsibilities,” she says. “Some have not.”
 
  • #680
Under Hamas’ rule, school curriculums promote extremist antisemitic practices—calling for genocide against the Jewish people.

This is another example for Hamas’ true ideology—and another reason for us to dismantle it.

the big lie.jpg

Israel Defense Forces on X

Aliza Samuel and her friend were hiding behind a bush during the #HamasMassacre and watched Hamas terrorists line their friends up one by one and execute them.

“I had to come all the way over here to hold her mouth shut, literally to gag her because I couldn’t let her make noise.”
 
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