Israel - Palestinian militants launch massive attack, 7 Oct 2023 #4

[Friday Fan]

ITA. Taxpayer supported universities should not tolerate the organized venting of personal opinions. My oldest brother attended a public university for his undergraduate degree. The Vietnam conflict was raging. His university said any protests would result in the student being kicked out of the university. My parents made it very clear they would not tolerate him participating.

JMO

Harvard is a private university. He left the board for the following reason:

The Harvard Palestine Solidarity Groups released a joint statement on October 8 blaming Israel for the attacks by Hamas, triggering a huge amount of backlash and accusations of antisemitism.
Billionaire hedge fund manager Bill Ackman called on Harvard University to release the names of students who are members of the groups so that companies don't "inadvertently" hire them. Other CEOs and investors have followed suit.

Harvard struggled to navigate its response to the student groups' statement. In a video on Thursday, Harvard President Christine Gay said that the university rejects terrorism. But she said that Harvard also rejects harassment and intimidation based on people's beliefs and "embraces" a commitment to free expression, including "views that many of us find objectionable, even outrageous."

"We do not punish or sanction people for expressing such views," Gay said. "But that is a far cry from endorsing them."

One of Israel's richest men and his wife stepped down from a Harvard board, saying their faith in the school's leadership had been 'broken' over its response to the Hamas attacks

Idan and Batia Ofer said that they hadn't seen "clear evidence" showing the university's support for the people of Israel.

www.businessinsider.com

_______________________________________

Mr and Mrs Ofer also have freedom of speech and they are free to leave the board.

 

[sds71]

Hamas spokesperson says the group is willing to release foreign hostages when “field conditions are right.”
@RichardEngel reports:

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[SouthAussie]

Did Hamas show values for human life, dignity? Didn't Hamas fire the first shot, kill babies, children and adults in inhumane ways?

Double standard in moo ....

Why don't these folks so concerned with Gaza anie up a few billion and help Gaza take back their lands from terrorist rather than judging Israel?

Moo.

I have read a few reports that say that Israel has to be careful. While Hamas started this war with its known and horrific atrocities, public opinion may sway when they see innocents starving, dehydrating, and children becoming homeless in a land full of rubble.


Eg: (paywalled but you can see the following in the lead-in excerpt)
Fighting in the densely populated strip will exact a steep humanitarian toll that could sway global public opinion against Israel and draw sympathisers elsewhere in the region into the fray, Hamas hopes.

After its brutal attack, Hamas is calculating its next move

Hamas’s militants are now preparing for the Israeli ground invasion they assume is imminent

www.economist.com

 

[Friday Fan]

I think it is not just one country. This is bothersome.
Iran - obviously
Turkey, JMO, profits from many conflicts, but not the people, just the leaders who resell oil from the Middle East. But I don't think they are big players in this situation, although definitely rising in power on the world map
Look who wins/loses:
China, Russia?
Ukraine? A loss imho
India?
Pakistan?
Just to look at the big picture

Look at who supports whom, the statements. I am positive it did not happen out of the blue, but I am trying to see the big picture yet.

India supports Israel

I'm sure Pakistan stands with the Palestinians, but I have no idea if they benefit from this.

Will anyone besides the oil countries benefit from this?

 

[MyBelle]

Here we go again !!! Where are all our allies? Why are we, the US responsible for troops and financial support for BOTH side? We're gonna send troops while negotiating an aid package to Gaza.

Moo...

Allies are doing their part.

JMO
Just one example from last week:

Britain sends spy planes, ships to Mediterranean amid Israel-Hamas war

The U.K.'s deployment package is meant to support Israel, prevent escalation and aid in humanitarian efforts, according to the government.

www.defensenews.com

Royal Air Force P-8 maritime patrol aircraft, other unspecified surveillance assets, two Royal Fleet Auxiliary support ships, three Merlin helicopters and a company of Royal Marines are part of the deployment package meant to support Israel, prevent escalation and aid in humanitarian efforts, the British government said. The Royal Fleet Auxiliary is the support arm of the Royal Navy.

Maritime patrol and surveillance aircraft operations will start as early as Oct. 13 to track threats to regional security, such as the transfer of weapons to terrorist groups, the government added.

A Royal Navy task force will also head to the region next week as a contingency measure to support humanitarian efforts, government noted. The task force will include the landing ship dock RFA Lyme Bay the support and hospital vessel RFA Argus.

 

[Simply Southern]

How do you mean it is private? Carnival cruise lines is a publicly traded company. The Pentagon made decisions about the air transport of Afghan refugees and the airlines complied. Humanitarian efforts should not be focused on $$$.

JMO

Pentagon orders U.S. airlines to help fly Afghanistan evacuees

The Pentagon on Sunday said it activated the Civil Reserve Air Fleet, ordering U.S. airlines to provide flights for the Afghanistan evacuation.

www.cnbc.com

By private,I meant not government owned. Yea, bet the BOD's laugh at this idea.

The US paid the private airline to evacuate America citizens.

Well if humanitarian efforts are free, I don't see a problem. <modsnip: not victim friendly>

Moo

 

[Friday Fan]

I have read a few reports that say that Israel has to be careful. While Gaza started this war with its known and horrific atrocities, public opinion may sway when they see innocents starving, dehydrating, and children becoming homeless in a land full of rubble.


Eg: (paywalled but you can see the following in the lead-in excerpt)
Fighting in the densely populated strip will exact a steep humanitarian toll that could sway global public opinion against Israel and draw sympathisers elsewhere in the region into the fray, Hamas hopes.

After its brutal attack, Hamas is calculating its next move

Hamas’s militants are now preparing for the Israeli ground invasion they assume is imminent

www.economist.com

That's the nature (more like impact) of terrorism. It's disorganized, unlike a nation state.

 

[JennieM]

7m ago

Julian Borger

Thousands of patients’ lives in Gaza are at risk, UN officials said, and civilians – Palestinians and foreigners – wait helplessly in Gaza with no means of escape.

US secretary of state Antony Blinken’s team had been trying to negotiate safe passage out through the Rafah crossing for an estimated 500 Palestinian-Americans trapped inside.

“The gate is closed. They didn’t let anyone through,” said a Palestinian woman who tried to cross on Monday. “We came at 9am. It is now almost 1.15pm and it didn’t even open for a second.” Many others were waiting for a phone call saying that the crossing was open.

Iran warns of ‘pre-emptive action’ as Gaza ground assault looms – as it happened

This blog is low closed. The latest live updates are here.

www.theguardian.com

 

[Sundog]

Saw it a few hours back, unapproved source.

Jmo

Me, too.
We had to wait until some other outlet took the source who broke the story and posted it under their name.

 

[SouthAussie]

Here we go again !!! Where are all our allies? Why are we, the US responsible for troops and financial support for BOTH side? We're gonna send troops while negotiating an aid package to Gaza.

Moo...

Your allies are quietly helping.

I know that Australia has facilitated Aussie reservists flying to Israel to help. While at the same time pledging $10,000,000 to aid organisations to humanitarianly help the displaced.

imo

 

[Sundog]

I think it is not just one country. This is bothersome.
Iran - obviously
Turkey, JMO, profits from many conflicts, but not the people, just the leaders who resell oil from the Middle East. But I don't think they are big players in this situation, although definitely rising in power on the world map
Look who wins/loses:
China, Russia?
Ukraine? A loss imho
India?
Pakistan?
Just to look at the big picture

Look at who supports whom, the statements. I am positive it did not happen out of the blue, but I am trying to see the big picture yet.

Iran and its proxy terrorist groups (Hamas and Hezbollah) had the most to gain, IMO. With Saudi Arabia moving closer to normalization of relations with Israel, this would have been anathema to Iran and left them very isolated. I don't see any of the other countries you listed as being particularly interested in this kind of destablization in the Middle East.

Saudi Arabia establishing normalization relationship with Israel would have been a game changer in the Middle East.

I think it will happen at some point, but now it has been put on hold and will be for some time.

 

[Simply Southern]

Your allies are quietly helping.

I know that Australia has facilitated Aussie reservists flying to Israel to help. While at the same time pledging $10,000,000 to aid organisations to humanitarianly help the displaced.

imo

Are the Aussie will to help out and take in refugees? That seems to be the biggest concern.

Moo... Egypt is not going to open the border with out a few billion dollars compensation, it's been mentioned they want the US to forgive their loans AND a predetermined location for refugees to live.

Moo

 

[SouthAussie]

Are the Aussie will to help out and take in refugees? That seems to be the biggest concern.

Moo... Egypt is not going to open the border with out a few billion dollars compensation, it's been mentioned they want the US to forgive their loans AND a predetermined location for refugees to live.

Moo

Most of the Palestinians in Australia were allowed to come here after major conflicts in the Middle East. Link
Not strictly refugees, but displaced persons.

There is no point getting down on other nations who are honestly trying to help. imo
The US is not the only nation who is trying to help.

 

[Vern]

ITA. Taxpayer supported universities should not tolerate the organized venting of personal opinions. My oldest brother attended a public university for his undergraduate degree. The Vietnam conflict was raging. His university said any protests would result in the student being kicked out of the university. My parents made it very clear they would not tolerate him participating.

JMO

I agree that taxpayer funded universities should not tolerate organized venting of personal opinions.

The issue comes whereby a university, for example, has no issues hosting a pro-Palestinian & anti-Semetic forum under its umbrella, but same university abjectly fails to, weeks later, condemn terroristic acts upon the same peoples who they earlier allowed to be denigrated under their official umbrella activities.

Freedom of speech and all that, regardless of it's truthfulness, should not result in people condemning the side that calls out, then pulls it's own funding from said "Institution of Higher Learning" when it fails to present "the 2nd side of the story" - especially so when they are faced with an abhorrent terrorist attack by the faction representing the same group on the world stage that the University allowed previous official voice to. Those people pulling their funding and voicing their opinion on the University's failure are only expressing their right to free speech because the University failed to acknowledge the other side of the equation.

Universities used to be known for actual 'debate' of both sides as civil discourse; not any more.

 

[lonetraveler]

I have read a few reports that say that Israel has to be careful. While Hamas started this war with its known and horrific atrocities, public opinion may sway when they see innocents starving, dehydrating, and children becoming homeless in a land full of rubble.


Eg: (paywalled but you can see the following in the lead-in excerpt)
Fighting in the densely populated strip will exact a steep humanitarian toll that could sway global public opinion against Israel and draw sympathisers elsewhere in the region into the fray, Hamas hopes.

After its brutal attack, Hamas is calculating its next move

Hamas’s militants are now preparing for the Israeli ground invasion they assume is imminent

www.economist.com

Exactly the way Hamas planned it.

 

[Simply Southern]

The U.S. and many other countries are addressing an international humanitarian crisis to help those who must evacuate a war zone. Their citizenship is irrelevant.

Israel has declared war against Hamas, not the families of Gaza who have been horrifically and inhumanely terrorized.

JMO

It's my understanding the US is negotiating safe passage to Egypt for American/Palestinian dual citizens, including guaranteed passage out of Egypt, only.

Moo

 

[MyBelle]

I was responding to your post in which you said that you wondered if Egypt would allow cruise ships to provide “camps” for refugees. That seemed to me to suggest a place for them to reside.

Therefore my response focused on private cruise ships being businesses which likely are already booked for future cruises with regular paying passengers.

Your post:

My posting was because Egypt was reportedly concerned the Sanai area didn't have access to electricity, fresh water. Refugees could be house in tent cities. A ship would be a resource to support the humanitarian efforts toward civilians.

JMO

 

[PrairieWind]

I have read a few reports that say that Israel has to be careful. While Hamas started this war with its known and horrific atrocities, public opinion may sway when they see innocents starving, dehydrating, and children becoming homeless in a land full of rubble.


Eg: (paywalled but you can see the following in the lead-in excerpt)
Fighting in the densely populated strip will exact a steep humanitarian toll that could sway global public opinion against Israel and draw sympathisers elsewhere in the region into the fray, Hamas hopes.

After its brutal attack, Hamas is calculating its next move

Hamas’s militants are now preparing for the Israeli ground invasion they assume is imminent

www.economist.com

I think it is a mistake to listen to analysts that view this under the typical view of mid east politics. This is viewed differently in Israel. Existential. It doesn't matter what is shown now. The elimination of Hamas is the goal. If Iran chooses to join in, that is their choice and the entire region is at war. As long as Israel focuses on Gaza, response and condemnation from other Arab nations will not rise above condemnation. The status quo of Gaza wasn't sustainable anyway. Hamas is a cancer.

 

[Vern]

Here we go again !!! Where are all our allies? Why are we, the US responsible for troops and financial support for BOTH side? We're gonna send troops while negotiating an aid package to Gaza.

Moo...

Uhmmm, we're here.

Canadians in Gaza can't reach evacuation flights, call for the government to step up

The Canadian government has answered calls to evacuate its civilians trapped in the Israel-Hamas war, sending planes to transport citizens out of Tel Aviv — but the lack of evacuation plans for those in the blockaded Gaza Strip has left trapped Canadians feeling desperate.

www.ctvnews.ca

Canada to continue sending humanitarian aid to Gaza, insists no money will go to Hamas

The Canadian government plans to continue delivering humanitarian aid to Gaza and the West Bank, but insists it will ensure none of the funds end up with Hamas, which it has designated a terrorist organization.

www.ctvnews.ca

Toronto, Canada and Global Breaking News – CP24

Most recent News News business news stories and video from CP24

www.cp24.com

Canada committing $10 million in humanitarian aid for Israel, Gaza as Canadian flights leave

OTTAWA - Canada is giving an initial $10 million in aid for urgent needs in Israel and the Gaza Strip, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said Thursday, while refusing to say

www.thestar.com

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-israel-palestinian-aid-1.6991543

Canadians in Gaza can't reach evacuation flights, call for the government to step up

The Canadian government has answered calls to evacuate its civilians trapped in the Israel-Hamas war, sending planes to transport citizens out of Tel Aviv — but the lack of evacuation plans for those in the blockaded Gaza Strip has left trapped Canadians feeling desperate.

www.ctvnews.ca

Canada to provide $10 million in assistance to Canadian Red Cross and partners for crisis in the Middle East

Gaza's humanitarian crisis deepened Thursday with warnings people are at risk of starvation as Israel maintained a siege and bombarded targets in response to the Hamas terror attacks that killed more than 1,200 people.

www.cnn.com

Canada providing $10M in humanitarian aid to address 'urgent needs' in Israel and Gaza: Trudeau

Canada will be providing an initial $10 million in humanitarian assistance to address 'urgent needs' in Israel and the Gaza Strip. 'We're working around the clock to support you, we will continue to follow the situation as it evolves, and continue our efforts with international partners,' Prime...

www.ctvnews.ca

Britain sends spy planes, ships to Mediterranean amid Israel-Hamas war

The U.K.'s deployment package is meant to support Israel, prevent escalation and aid in humanitarian efforts, according to the government.

www.defensenews.com

 

[JennieM]

37m ago
Hamas has released footage of a young woman it claims is being held hostage in Gaza, according to Israeli media reports.

Israeli news has identified the individual as a 21-year-old woman who was kidnapped from the Supernova music festival on 7 October.

In the clip, she says: “Please get me out of here as soon as possible.”

Iran warns of ‘pre-emptive action’ as Gaza ground assault looms – as it happened

This blog is low closed. The latest live updates are here.

www.theguardian.com