Netanyahu’s office announces that in light of the “overwhelming and vital” support from the United States and in light of US President Joe Biden’s demand for basic humanitarian aid to be able to reach Gaza, Israel’s war cabinet has decided the following: (1/3)
1. Israel won't allow any humanitarian aid to be delivered from its territory to the Gaza Strip until the hostages being held by terror groups are returned.
2. Israel demands Red Cross be able to visit hostages & will work to mobilize international support for this demand. (2/3)
3. Israel will not thwart humanitarian supplies from reaching Gaza from Egypt as long as it is only food, water and medicine for the civilian population located in the southern Gaza Strip. Any supplies that reach Hamas will be thwarted by Israel.
You can take me for what I'm worth, but 35 years in to munitions and explosives day-to-day as my military career path, I just can't. This was a failed rocket fired from within Gaza that tragicly ended up coming down into an area immediately outside of a hospital. Tragic. Plenty of OSINT sources posted in here of footage etc already. The answer is obvious if you know what you're looking for - truth be damned.
Waiting for all the usual official suspects/apologists to man-up and apologize for the heinous accustaions made against Israel. (ey BBC, UN, heads of nations that should know better [and some do know better, but it doesn't suit their agendas/ideology] etc!!).
Waiting for the never-coming calling out of the elephant in the room.
Great post: why were all these news outlets and others so ready to believe Israel did this- I just knew they didn't - they would not target a hospital but besides that there apparently is proof they didn't.
There's so much homework (history, geography, religion, economics, psychology... the list goes on!) it's difficult for all of us. imo But, I think we are all learning a great deal... so that's good !
NEW: Two U.S. officials tell @ABC Pentagon independently concluded the Gaza hospital blast was likely caused by an errant Palestinian Islamic Jihad rocket that fell short of its target. In other words, the DD was not basing guidance to Biden solely on info from the Israelis.
On Tuesday, the Pentagon announced that the USS Bataan amphibious ready group carrying Navy sailors and Marines is shipping off to the Middle East.
www.13newsnow.com
On Tuesday, the Pentagon announced that the USS Bataan amphibious ready group carrying Navy sailors and Marines is shipping off to the Middle East.
It consists of three ships: amphibious assault ship USS Bataan, amphibious transport dock USS Mesa Verde and amphibious dock landing ship USS Carter Hall.
....
A U.S. official said the USS Mesa Verde is currently in the Mediterranean Sea, while the Bataan and the USS Carter Hall were in the Gulf region, and are now heading toward the Red Sea. They were deployed on July 10.
The group will join the USS Gerald R. Ford Carrier Strike Group and the USS Dwight D. Eisenhower Carrier Strike Group, who were both ordered to the Eastern Mediterranean this week.
Don't feel too badly !
I've been corrected many times and have learned more about this conflict than ever before.
I didn't know anyone lived in the Negev !
But the pres. of Egypt should open his own borders before sending Palestinians back into Israel.
Imo.
Based on your experience in conflict zones, and the images coming in today (there's an especially graphic one with piles of what appear to be dead children, blurred in key spots - linked back on page 8 I believe), do you believe there were 300-500 people in that parking lot?
Or, is this just more propaganda as can be expected?
I'll link in a video of the Palestinian presser from which the blurred image you've referred to is taken from. Note: Presser footage is not blurred.
Again, I've no doubt that there were a great many people crowded into the area of the hospital and it's immediate vicinity given the 'safe zone' the Geneva Conventions apply to Hospitals. These people attempted to, and went to, a place where they would not be targetted. I do not believe they were intentionally targetted. I believe they were victims of a horrific misfiring of a rocket from within the Gaza Strip (as other video shows). They would have been in that area when the explosion occured.
Initial Impact (concussion & blast):would have killed and horrificly dismembered/threw anyone in it's immediate impact vicinity. Flash Fire, Heat & Shrapnel: Would have spread outwardly - instaneously - causing deaths and disfigurements, and extreme heat wounds (burns etc) to those people further out from the impact area. Note that in previos images you can see the fragmentation (fragments/shrapnel - from both the rocket and the cars it impacted close to) that struck into the sides of buildings next to the parking lot. That did not bode well for any people who would have between the initial impact area and those buildings; the human body tends not to be as structurely strong as cement walls etc. 3 Vehicles: The three vehicles which are closest to the immediate impact area are destroyed (but I note that they remain upright) - most likely from shrapnel and flash fire which would have caused secondary explosions of their fuel tanks and likely burn/heat/shrapnel injuries to any persons in the immediate vicinity of them too. These vehicles were not "right next to" the impact site or they would also have been overturned etc by the initial concussion. That does not bode well for any persons who happened to be between the impact site and these vehicles. Other cars were also caught in the flash fire and burnt. So likewise for people.
So, it all depends upon how many people were crammed into these areas. I've no idea what is being stated for 'death toll' from this incident. Possibly 300-500 in that parking lot and the vacant lot under the trees etc before the buliding - sure there could have been that many there.
Do I think they would all be killed? No, but certainly those between the impact site and those 3 cars (and same radius around the immediate landing site. But horrific shrapnel and heat/flash fire injuries to a whole lot of them outside of that - yep.
Now onto the video. It's all dependent upon how many people actually were in the area, but there is also an 'unknown' (at least to me) and that is the propaganda element - and there is an element of that in this incident.
Firstly - the immediate race to place the blame on the feet of Israel without benefit of investigation and/or facts; and Secondly - A couple points from the Palestinian Presser iteself:
1) - very propagandaish with the placement of victims arund the podium which has been placed in the area. As so for the placement of the infant directly in front of the podium and 3 other child victims in the close vicinity [noting as well that these victims are the sole 'uncovered/visible' victims]; and
2) - this presser occured in the near-aftermath of the blast [I'd love to know what actual time it was filmed] as it's still dark out. I would have thought the doctors would have been so busy dealing with 300-500 victims and all the surgeries (no doubt there was many required) to have spent time cleaning up into nice fresh scrubs and heading out to a formally arranged, with podium et al, presser. ***What we usually see in critical mass incidents is bloodied and stressed healthcare workers and emergency workers & citizens working on/carrying/caring for those mass casualties and leave the formal pressers for the diplomats and politicians.
There's so much homework (history, geography, religion, economics, psychology... the list goes on!) it's difficult for all of us. imo But, I think we are all learning a great deal... so that's good !
Unbelievable.
Maybe making rockets out of water irrigation pipes wasn't a good idea ? ( --if this is what happened, as well as using funds for weapons, instead of aid meant for the people of Gaza --my opinion only)
Who knew. *sarcasm intended*
And to think, for every failed rocket, innocent people have prob. died !!!!!!
Omo.
It’s abundantly clear that Israel had nothing to do with bombing that hospital, there is pure evidence, but as we all know that horse has left the barn.
BBC has never been friendly toward Israel and I typically never click on their site. But other media jumped on this, too, and of course Al-Jazeera, which is anti-Israel and which I studiously avoid.
The ignorant will cling to this narrative that it was Israel’s fault, because it suits their propaganda purposes and inflames the Arab world. Already the world is morphing from “Israeli civilians were killed in their beds” to “Israel is wantonly killing hospitalized patients.”
I‘ll leave my politics out but I will give Biden credit for going to Israel. IMO on a human level that takes guts, no matter how good his protection may be.
Bringing Gazans to live in the Negev? What???????
If murderers come to your home and slaughter and rape and set you on fire and kidnap your family, are you supposed to invite their compatriots to live in your spare bedroom?
There is a rule at Ben-Gurion University of the Negev, in southern Israel, that a management professor shared this week.
“When rockets are fired from Gaza, and you need to find shelter, people in Tel Aviv have a few minutes,” said the professor, Hila Riemer. “Here, we have one.”
Ben-Gurion University, one of Israel’s top research institutions, is that close to Gaza — 25 miles away.
But Ben-Gurion University has borne its proximity to the violence at an unbearable cost. Dozens of students, professors and members of the wider university community were massacred that day. Many lived in the kibbutzim that were invaded. Others were at the rave party near Gaza that turned into a slaughterhouse. Some are among the 150 people that Hamas marched off to captivity in Gaza, leaving this community in a state of suspended shock…
At Ben-Gurion University of the Negev, dorms turned into barracks and medical students manned emergency rooms. Dozens from the university community were killed in the Hamas attacks.
There's so much homework (history, geography, religion, economics, psychology... the list goes on!) it's difficult for all of us. imo But, I think we are all learning a great deal... so that's good !
Am learning more in the recent events than ever.
The last time I thought about the Negev was a historical novel I'd read .. published in 1970 !!
I don't know if there will ever be peace in Jerusalem/Israel/The Middle East at large.
But you can't murder people who were at a concert and young families and elderly without any consequences.
Their blood cries out for justice.
Not to mention the desperately frightened families of those in captivity !
Omo.
Merkava tanks
(Hebrew: Chariot)
are the mainstay of Israel's armored forces.
They were created in specific conditions, based on experience gained from the Middle Eastern battlefield, and the directions of their development were constantly verified in the heat of subsequent conflicts.
The machine, considered to be one of the best armored tanks in the world and equipped with the Trophy active defense system, was destroyed by an anti-tank grenade grenade dropped by a drone.
The sight of the destroyed tank provoked comments that the legend of the exceptionally safe, well-thought-out and crew-friendly Merkava was exaggerated. Were the critics of the Israeli tank right?
Nothing could be further from the truth.
The experience gained from the Yom Kippur War made the Israeli authorities decide on the need to standardize armor and develop and implement their own tank.
This is how Merkava was born.
- The engine at the front of the tank -
Its main designer, General Izrael Tal, a tankman with combat experience , had a difficult task ahead of him.
It should be remembered that in the 1970s, when the first Merkava was created, Israel did not have access to special armor - multi-layer, made of materials with different characteristics, protecting, among others, Abrams , Challenger and Leopard 2 tanks.
Therefore, to maximize crew protection, the new tank uses armor made of several layers of steel with different properties.
As an additional protection, the engine is used, which - unlike in other main battle tanks - is located at the front of the vehicle, next to the driver.
This construction makes the Merkava stand out because it can leave the tank through a hatch located in the rear armor.
This is important due to the tactics of using these machines, which often serve in fortified positions , protected from enemy fire, e.g. by earth embankments.
In such a situation, even after the Merkava has been hit, the surviving crew has the opportunity to leave the tank through a safe rear exit, without exposing themselves to enemy fire.
Although the rear exit and space inside the tank may give this impression, the Merkava was not designed with the transport of landing troops in mind . In exceptional circumstances, several people or, for example, a stretcher with a wounded person can fit in the rear hatch, but this requires removing most of the ammunition from the tank.
Ammunition separation
The one in the Merkava Mk 4 is transported differently than in most modern tanks. Full separation of ammunition from the crew was not achieved, as in the Abrams. Instead, another interesting solution was used to increase safety.
There are only four missiles in the crew compartment. Another 10 are placed in two revolver magazines in the turret niche, where - similarly to the Abrams tank - there are exhaust flaps in the ceiling of the ammunition magazine , through which the energy of the explosion escapes outside the vehicle.
The rest of the ammunition is housed in the hull, but each round is contained in an individual fireproof container, minimizing the risk of ammunition igniting if hit.
Armored cover
Merkava's armor has evolved from version to version. The current shape of the tank, with a caricaturally large turret, is the result of the use of additional modules mounted on the main armor, which cover both the hull and the turret itself.
Their large size provides space in which various mechanisms can operate to reduce the effects of a hit , such as the movement of armor plates, which move after being hit by a projectile, damaging the penetrator of the anti-tank projectile or dispersing the cumulative jet.
Additional protection is provided by various components, such as batteries or a water tank, which surrounds the crew. The price for powerful armor protection is the weight of the tank , which in the Merkava Mk 4 version exceeds 65 tons, and in the Mk 5 variant it is estimated at over 70 tons.
Security systems
The armor is complemented by WRE systems installed in Israeli tanks . These include, for example, jammers that prevent remote radio firing of improvised explosive devices. Merkava also has an interesting way of placing a smoke screen.
Active Trophy defense system
An addition that has become a tank standard in recent years, installed, among others, on German or American tanks, there is also the famous Trophy hard-kill active defense system (i.e. destroying incoming bullets). It is a set of sensors - radars with flat antennas - and explosively formed missiles fired at the incoming threat.
Trophy not only neutralizes the incoming missile, but also transmits information to the fire control system about the place from which - according to calculations - it was fired. This allows you to quickly and effectively destroy an attacking enemy tank."
I'll link in a video of the Palestinian presser from which the blurred image you've referred to is taken from. Note: Presser footage is not blurred.
Again, I've no doubt that there were a great many people crowded into the area of the hospital and it's immediate vicinity given the 'safe zone' the Geneva Conventions apply to Hospitals. These people attempted to, and went to, a place where they would not be targetted. I do not believe they were intentionally targetted. I believe they were victims of a horrific misfiring of a rocket from within the Gaza Strip (as other video shows). They would have been in that area when the explosion occured.
Initial Impact (concussion & blast):would have killed and horrificly dismembered/threw anyone in it's immediate impact vicinity. Flash Fire, Heat & Shrapnel: Would have spread outwardly - instaneously - causing deaths and disfigurements, and extreme heat wounds (burns etc) to those people further out from the impact area. Note that in previos images you can see the fragmentation (fragments/shrapnel - from both the rocket and the cars it impacted close to) that struck into the sides of buildings next to the parking lot. That did not bode well for any people who would have between the initial impact area and those buildings; the human body tends not to be as structurely strong as cement walls etc. 3 Vehicles: The three vehicles which are closest to the immediate impact area are destroyed (but I note that they remain upright) - most likely from shrapnel and flash fire which would have caused secondary explosions of their fuel tanks and likely burn/heat/shrapnel injuries to any persons in the immediate vicinity of them too. These vehicles were not "right next to" the impact site or they would also have been overturned etc by the initial concussion. That does not bode well for any persons who happened to be between the impact site and these vehicles. Other cars were also caught in the flash fire and burnt. So likewise for people.
So, it all depends upon how many people were crammed into these areas. I've no idea what is being stated for 'death toll' from this incident. Possibly 300-500 in that parking lot and the vacant lot under the trees etc before the buliding - sure there could have been that many there.
Do I think they would all be killed? No, but certainly those between the impact site and those 3 cars (and same radius around the immediate landing site. But horrific shrapnel and heat/flash fire injuries to a whole lot of them outside of that - yep.
Now onto the video. It's all dependent upon how many people actually were in the area, but there is also an 'unknown' (at least to me) and that is the propaganda element - and there is an element of that in this incident.
Firstly - the immediate race to place the blame on the feet of Israel without benefit of investigation and/or facts; and Secondly - A couple points from the Palestinian Presser iteself:
1) - very propagandaish with the placement of victims arund the podium which has been placed in the area. As so for the placement of the infant directly in front of the podium and 3 other child victims in the close vicinity [noting as well that these victims are the sole 'uncovered/visible' victims]; and
2) - this presser occured in the near-aftermath of the blast [I'd love to know what actual time it was filmed] as it's still dark out. I would have thought the doctors would have been so busy dealing with 300-500 victims and all the surgeries (no doubt there was many required) to have spent time cleaning up into nice fresh scrubs and heading out to a formally arranged, with podium et al, presser. ***What we usually see in critical mass incidents is bloodied and stressed healthcare workers and emergency workers & citizens working on/carrying/caring for those mass casualties and leave the formal pressers for the diplomats and politicians.
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