Israel - Palestinian militants launch massive attack, 7 Oct 2023 #5

[Chimera]

Qmfr / from above:

“America is the devil.”

Uh, eh I think Hamas is the one who is the devil.

What is it about the concept of decapitated babies (etc.) that is so hard to understand.

Exactly.
Or, slaughtering special needs young people like Noya and elderly people.
Helpless.
Omo.

 

[Friday Fan]

This Hamas war was well planned, possibly for years. I think it's quite likely that Hamas leaders have done everything possible to obtain dual citizenship over the years for just this occasion. They can go to a place like Canada, claim to be refugees, or have a family member claim to be a refugee who then sponsors family members to obtain a Canadian passport. Perhaps Israel and Egypt want time to check each application to leave Gaza via Egypt to ensure that no terrorists slip away.

You can't claim to be refugee if you are a US citizen.
You are a US citizen and you belong home.
You are the responsibility of the US.

If there are concerns about a US citizen, it's the US responsibility.
Egypt is merely acting as the "pass through airport".
They check passports at the gate, just like the airport.
Hopefully, there is someone from the US State Dept on the Egyptian side of the border to assure that US citizens have transportation to the airport or US Embassy.

 

[margarita25]

Going to freestyle this one, not sure if it will come out how I’m thinking about it in my head (for some days now).

All war aspects aside, speaking specifically about “abducted children” (and other missing persons of all ages).

Here at WS, this is a MAIN focus.

If even ONE person is kidnapped/missing, he/she/they gets a thread.

So, let’s look at the enormity of this specific event from a missing persons standpoint, as related to all the threads we do here at Websleuths.

The only two events that I’ve seen/remember/have participated on this scale as far as numbers go with children specifically are the schoolbus students kidnapped in Mexico and schoolchildren in Nigeria. I’ll pull those numbers/ref here as eta.

So, anyway I guess my point is that, well it’s simply an obvious observation, that the “numbers” here alone are something in themselves.


—-

Eta/quick ref:

Nine years after 43 Mexican students vanished, parents still seek answers

An independent panel found that Mexican security forces at all levels had collaborated "to make them disappear." Almost none of the students have been found.

www.nbcnews.com

Sept. 25, 2023

More than 1,000 children in northeastern Nigeria abducted by Boko Haram since 2013

Four years on from Chibok abduction, UNICEF continues to call for children’s release and immediate end to attacks on schools

www.unicef.org

13 April 2018

 

[Chimera]

There's 'ZERO' chance Hamas won't get their hands on Biden's Gaza aid

There is no way to prevent Hamas helping itself to aid sent to Gaza, according to two of Israel's most senior former security officials, who said the militant group's 'DNA' runs through the enclave's economy.

www.dailymail.co.uk

'The economy and the rule of law in the Gaza Strip have the DNA of Hamas built into them, meaning that anything that goes into the Gaza Strip, even if it's a bottle of water, or if it's a Sony PlayStation or BMW, they know how to benefit from it.'
Ask me if I can guarantee that nothing will go to Hamas? I cannot,' he said.

I was thinking ok, don't send money, (money can be misused ?) only send medical supplies & food.
But it sounds like anything that's sent will help Hamas ?
Depressing !

Petraeus warns Israel ground war may last years

David Petraeus, the US' top general in both Iraq and Afghanistan, warned that the IDF's current ground war plan against Gaza 'could be Mogadishu on steroids very quickly.'

www.dailymail.co.uk

Hamas terrorists used weapons from North Korea in attack on Israel

North Korea is believed to have sent rocket-propelled grenades and assault rifles to Hamas which the Gaza-based terrorists used in their murderous assault on Israel on Oct. 7.

www.dailymail.co.uk

• North Korean F-7 rocket-propelled grenade launchers were seized by Israel
• Hamas terrorists also had North Korean, Kalashnikov-style assault rifles
• North Korean weapons were sold to Iran before reaching Hamas in Gaza

Emphasis mine.
The accuracy of the DM can be a little 'iffy'; but if Israeli forces seized this stuff they've prob. authenticated its' origin by now ?
Omo.

 

[Momoffourboys]

Hamas’s Hostage-Taking Handbook Says to ‘Kill the Difficult Ones’ and Use Hostages as ‘Human Shields’​

The document, which I obtained from an Israeli official, also suggests that Hamas did not plan to take hostages back to Gaza.

A hostage-taking manual that an official in the Israel Defense Forces told me was recovered in the aftermath of the Hamas attack suggests that the group’s hostage-taking on October 7 did not go according to plan. Right now, more than 200 hostages are thought to be in Hamas’s hands in Gaza. The manual suggests that the group at first intended not to spirit all of them into Gaza, but instead to take them hostage where they were found inside Israel, possibly for a protracted standoff.

The Atlantic obtained a copy of the manual from an IDF official, who vouched for its authenticity and who asked not to be identified because of the sensitivity of the materials. Israeli President Isaac Herzog had earlier referred to the document in an interview on CNN, calling it “an instruction guide, how to go into civilian areas, into a kibbutz, a city, a moshav [agricultural co-op].” He said it described “exactly how to torture them, how to abduct them, how to kidnap them.”

MORE: Hamas’s Hostage-Taking Handbook Says to ‘Kill the Difficult Ones’ and Use Hostages as ‘Human Shields’

 

[margarita25]

Exactly.
Or, slaughtering special needs young people like Noya and elderly people.
Helpless.
Omo.

Yep, that’s why I bolded the ETC.


No words.

——

Hamas’s Hostage-Taking Handbook Says to ‘Kill the Difficult Ones’ and Use Hostages as ‘Human Shields’​

The document, which I obtained from an Israeli official, also suggests that Hamas did not plan to take hostages back to Gaza.

A hostage-taking manual that an official in the Israel Defense Forces told me was recovered in the aftermath of the Hamas attack suggests that the group’s hostage-taking on October 7 did not go according to plan. Right now, more than 200 hostages are thought to be in Hamas’s hands in Gaza. The manual suggests that the group at first intended not to spirit all of them into Gaza, but instead to take them hostage where they were found inside Israel, possibly for a protracted standoff.

The Atlantic obtained a copy of the manual from an IDF official, who vouched for its authenticity and who asked not to be identified because of the sensitivity of the materials. Israeli President Isaac Herzog had earlier referred to the document in an interview on CNN, calling it “an instruction guide, how to go into civilian areas, into a kibbutz, a city, a moshav [agricultural co-op].” He said it described “exactly how to torture them, how to abduct them, how to kidnap them.”

MORE: Hamas’s Hostage-Taking Handbook Says to ‘Kill the Difficult Ones’ and Use Hostages as ‘Human Shields’

Wowww, can not wait to stare at this one for a while. Thanks for posting.


“But the effect of Hamas’s success was not predictable either by its perpetrators or by its victims. Two hundred hostages, ranging from little babies to old women, is an order of magnitude more hostages than Israel ever contemplated in its worst nightmares, and Israel’s conviction that Hamas must now be eliminated is in large part due to the enormity of this crime.”


Exaaactly, that is what I was just saying above about Websleuths, that here at WS we have thousands of abducted persons’ threads, and the numbers. enormities, magnitude is something in itself, and if can WS can say that, as far as threads here go, then that, well really says something, imo.


(Eta/ref/qmfr/BBM)

Going to freestyle this one, not sure if it will come out how I’m thinking about it in my head (for some days now).

All war aspects aside, speaking specifically about “abducted children” (and other missing persons of all ages).

Here at WS, this is a MAIN focus.

If even ONE person is kidnapped/missing, he/she/they gets a thread.

So, let’s look at the enormity of this specific event from a missing persons standpoint, as related to all the threads we do here at Websleuths.

The only two events that I’ve seen/remember/have participated on this scale as far as numbers go with children specifically are the school us children kidnapped in Mexico and schoolchildren in Nigeria. I’ll pull those numbers/ref here as eta.

So, anyway I guess my point is that, well it’s simply an obvious observation, that the “numbers” here alone are something in themselves.

—-

I also agree that they have likely chosen to the “kill the difficult ones” as I stated earlier that I think they’ve killed some, kept some.

 

[otto]

delete

 

[cottonweaver]

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compare that with the Le Pointe & Washington Post tweets I pasted earlier

we're just going to have to keep being cautious

 

[Momoffourboys]

According to fresh data from the IDF, among the 203 confirmed hostages in the Gaza Strip, some 30 are children and youths. Additionally, there are 100-200 more missing people whose fate is currently unknown. IDF still finding bodies in the Gaza border area, mostly of terrorists.

https://x.com/manniefabian/status/1715043640957915489?s=20

 

[Momoffourboys]

Yep, that’s why I bolded the ETC.


No words.

——





Wowww, can not wait to stare at this one for a while. Thanks for posting.


“But the effect of Hamas’s success was not predictable either by its perpetrators or by its victims. Two hundred hostages, ranging from little babies to old women, is an order of magnitude more hostages than Israel ever contemplated in its worst nightmares, and Israel’s conviction that Hamas must now be eliminated is in large part due to the enormity of this crime.”


Exaaactly, that is what I was just saying above about Websleuths, that here at WS we have thousands of abducted persons’ threads, and the numbers. enormities, magnitude is something in itself, and if can WS can say that, as far as threads here go, then that, well really says something, imo.


(Eta/ref/qmfr/BBM)


—-

I also agree that they have likely chosen to the “kill the difficult ones” as I stated earlier that I think they’ve killed some, kept some.

With the humanitarian situation so dire in Gaza, I can’t see Hamas/PIJ feeding and caring for the enemy for 13 days. Getting medical care for the injured and ill. Treating the elderly.

 

[Cedars]

Sinn Fein was willing to talk and negotiate. Hamas isn't. There is no negotiation, they want Israel destroyed. There is literally no where to go.

However, that idea about destroying Israel is immensely deluded....like all deluded ideas, reality eventually forces people to give them up.

Plenty of other delusional governments: Pol Pot, or IDI Amin, who declared himself "Conqueror of the British Empire". There's many precedents for how these conflicts have been handled in the past, with a combination of military action, peace treaties, and a reorganization of the goverment of the 'problem' country.

JMO

 

[Friday Fan]

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compare that with the Le Pointe & Washington Post tweets I pasted earlier

we're just going to have to keep being cautious

Although he does not have a verified checkmark https://twitter.com/idreesali114 is with Reuters.

Idrees Ali | Reuters

The latest international Idrees Ali news and views from Reuters - one of the world's largest news agencies

www.reuters.com

National Security correspondent focusing on the Pentagon in Washington D.C. Reports on U.S. military activity and operations throughout the world and the impact that they have. Has reported from over two dozen countries to include Iraq, Afghanistan, and much of the Middle East, Asia and Europe. From Karachi, Pakistan.

 

[Gypsy Road]

Qmfr / from above:

“America is the devil.”

Uh, eh I think Hamas is the one who is the devil.

What is it about the concept of decapitated babies (etc.) that is so hard to understand.


—-

Eta lol I too am asking a reasonable question. I wonder if it’s the same question, let’s see (referring to the post above mine).

Last night on CNN I saw several Palestinian women blaming this all on America. I just shook my head. Why are we the devil when it’s Hamas who is keeping and holding them down?

 

[cottonweaver]

Sinn Fein was willing to talk and negotiate. Hamas isn't. There is no negotiation, they want Israel destroyed. There is literally no where to go.

It took many decades

It was the longest running conflict in Europe.

The last Hamas - Israel ceasefire was in 2021 so I think ruling out any negotiated settlements in the future is - hopefully - premature. At least that ambassador is hoping so

 

[cottonweaver]

Although he does not have a verified checkmark https://twitter.com/idreesali114 is with Reuters.

for sure, I wouldn't have posted if he wasn't MSM, it's just that we need an investigation, instead of leaks to media ( I've followed him for a few years)

 

[margarita25]

With the humanitarian situation so dire in Gaza, I can’t see Hamas/PIJ feeding and caring for the enemy for 13 days. Getting medical care for the injured and ill. Treating the elderly.

Indeed. Well stated. And even that aside, there are so many strategic aspects that Hamas is considering.

“The Butcher of YK” Sinwar has “been studying Israelis” for his entire prison duration, was it 20 years…

(And now China wants to go poke it’s head in Egypt….as I said maybe he’s in Egypt because they are so tight and have those arms trafficking tunnels you posted about.)

So much to catch up on here, but yeah, like I said earlier, it’s doubtful imo they would choose to preserve the elderly due to maintenance, mobility, etc. purposes imo.

 

[Momoffourboys]

Former Hamas chief Khaled Meshaal said on Thursday that the group has a number of Israeli soldiers, held as hostages, which are enough to negotiate releasing all the Palestinian prisoners in Israel.

Hamas has 'enough IDF soldiers' to release all Palestinian prisoners | The Jerusalem Post

www.jpost.com

 

[Friday Fan]

Last night on CNN I saw several Palestinian women blaming this all on America. I just shook my head. Why are we the devil when it’s Hamas who is keeping and holding them down?

It's complicated...sigh....

Do they even comprehend it all....???
If Hamas is gone, then they are at the expense of the Israeli govt. The same govt that is bombing Gaza.

I know Hamas caused this war, but Hamas is their "govt".
Without "something" (sort of structure) they live in a vacuum or anarchy.
They really don't understand the cycle of violence.
They don't see Hamas as "holding them down".
They see them as, "this is all we got"

 

[margarita25]

Last night on CNN I saw several Palestinian women blaming this all on America. I just shook my head. Why are we the devil when it’s Hamas who is keeping and holding them down?

We/ @Foxfire used to talk about this a lot with ISIS, radical indoctrination, and frankly brainwashing imo.


Eta like I said “What is it about the concept of decapitated babies (etc.) that is so hard to understand.” If you can’t understand that, then I don’t know what to tell ya.

 

[Friday Fan]

Former Hamas chief Khaled Meshaal said on Thursday that the group has a number of Israeli soldiers, held as hostages, which are enough to negotiate releasing all the Palestinian prisoners in Israel.

Hamas has 'enough IDF soldiers' to release all Palestinian prisoners | The Jerusalem Post

www.jpost.com

I hope this is BS!!!