Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000 #4

[you betcha]

The droppings and tree debris were found in a jacket pocket and not the hip bag, but would it be natural to put a single tennis ball into his windbreaker pocket? I could imagine doing it to free up a hand momentarily.

What do you think as a tennis person, @SteveL?

 

[SteveL]

The droppings and tree debris were found in a jacket pocket and not the hip bag, but would it be natural to put a single tennis ball into his windbreaker pocket? I could imagine doing it to free up a hand momentarily.

What do you think as a tennis person, @SteveL

When you play tennis, you typically start with a can of three balls. Those 3 are constantly rotating in and out of play. If you have extra, you keep them in your pockets. I’ve also seen players use a hip bag to hold on to extra balls, although not as large as the one the killer had. When balls go astray, they roll up against the fence, corners, etc. This is also where the wind blows loose debris. So, your balls are constantly rolling around in this, and the felt picks it up. Often, you’ll need to rub off the debris using your clothes.

I’m fairly confident this is how the sand from Edwards AFB was picked up. Pictures from the tennis courts there show sand all over the courts.

 

[acutename]

@Incoherent barium titanate is used in capacitors that are in electronics so most probably the owner of the hip bag kept a cellphone, music player or something similair in it. I'm not sure if the electronic device has to be broken or crushed for barium titanate to escape from inside the phone, maybe simply removing the back to change battery on an old phone could transfer barium titanate.

It's also in electromechanical transducers which seems to be in everything that converts energy into physical action, the examples I found online are mics, speakers, generators and motors. Unlikely the owner of the hip bag fit a generator in it but perhaps a mechanic could transfer it into the bag from work.

before modern phones and phone music, people had mini recorders and radios with headphones... some jackets had a button hole type hole to thread an ear phone jack ....pretty common (Sony Walkman, e.g.) AI:
AI Overview

The first Sony Walkman, the TPS-L2, was manufactured and launched in Japan on July 1, 1979, revolutionizing portable music by allowing personal, on-the-go listening with cassette tapes and paving the way for modern digital audio players.

 

[acutename]

Most likely to jog people’s memories. When I read of zelkova trees in the report I thought of the large concentration of them in Kichijoji, and others might too and cast their mind back and remember something. Kichijoji was also where a lone person bought the knife by itself too, but he was ruled out. It’s also next to Ogikubo. Don’t you feel like it could all be connected somehow? But I’m just riffing here.

As for the jacket itself, it was sold only from October 2000. Zelkova being deciduous would have leaves falling from mid November - early December in the Tokyo area. It narrows down the time a bit to when and where he might have been. It is a very common tree though. Since it’s been heavily suggested he was watching the house it could indicate that to get traces of those leaves in his pocket he had to have been watching from a much earlier date than perhaps just a few days before, for example. All the leaves would be dead on the ground by then.

whomever he was, "Mom" was not washing his jacket every week

 

[acutename]

A tennis ball is what picked everything up. As a tennis player, it’s aggravating how felt on a tennis ball almost acts like a swifter mop on the court. It pick up sand, dirt, leaves, bird droppings, etc., even candy wrappers. The killer’s hip bag most probably was used to hold tennis balls, and that’s how those things ended up in there.

courts in Tokyo and/or on the base?

 

[Bobban]

I've read a bit on ceramic capacitors and I'm starting to doubt barium titanate would be able to easily escape out of an electronical device. Even the type of ceramic capacitors without an outer resin shell shouldn't be crumbling within a device. They are fragile but even if there was a manufacturing error and let's say a capasitor did start crumble or crack, it's still hidden deep within a device on a circuit board, a part most people aren't digging into and a part u don't want exposed to elements.

I'm stuck on 2 options that I find the easiest ways to be in contact with barium titanate (unless cell phones and music players do passively leak barium titanate)

1. if an electrical device is straight from a factory where the outside has been contaminated from the manufacturing process (if this happened i would think lead also could be found on devices and wouldn't that be a major health concern to the public?)

2. Working with electronics as an occupation or as a hobby. If ur opening up devices and soldering or changing chips I'd imagine your hands could get transfer from the parts. Many electronic hobbyist forums warn to always wash your hands when you're done (many mention lead ingestation as the main concern).

Barium titanate is man made and used in more things than ceramic capacitors but they all serve their purpose within electronics on circuit boards.

I'd love if someone with more knowledge could weigh in. I think I'm over complicating this while not having enough knowledge.

Can barium titanate escape from inside electronics? (Which if possible; I think would be the most reasonable, everyday explanation)

 

[Incoherent]

Could it have anything to do with electronic repair or maintenance? Not necessarily something that he carried in his bag that left those traces. Auto tech comes to mind, such as working with vehicles and electronics.

 

[Bobban]

I understand it's used in sensors so it could be in multiple areas in the car. Putting a tool that was used to repair a car could be a great explanation if that transfer barium titanate.

A lot of articles and websites about barium titanate usage in cars talk mostly about how the market for barium titanate will grow as the electric vehicle market grows but they do mention some car systems. I've seen mentions of the airbag system being a titanate barium sensor as well as the heating system. But not a lot of information online about the usage of it in cars prior to 2001.

I'll try to look into the automotive usage today or tomorrow hopefully.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Could it have anything to do with electronic repair or maintenance? Not necessarily something that he carried in his bag that left those traces. Auto tech comes to mind, such as working with vehicles and electronics.

An's husband worked in auto industry. Disgruntled employee connection? Or military brat working on cars for job/hobby? What ideas do you have going? Curious!

 

[Incoherent]

An's husband worked in auto industry. Disgruntled employee connection? Or military brat working on cars for job/hobby? What ideas do you have going? Curious!

From what I understand the material is found in certain electronics but is not just something that can be left as a residue of sorts, it comes from taking something apart or it being crushed or broken. For it to be found in the hip bag I don’t think it could mean he was just carrying around a Walkman or a mobile phone and that’s why it’s there. It would perhaps make more sense he was in an environment where that material was found in amounts that could transfer into his bag, so like a workshop or somewhere that did electronic maintenance.

In schools on US AFB’s in Japan for example, an auto tech course is (was?) a credit the students could take meaning there was likely a garage of sorts, or a workshop, where it was undertaken on campus. The course being available at that time is something I can confirm.
Electronic maintenance and repair for vehicles would be included as part of this course and several students doing it all in one place could explain the material ending up in places like a school bag.

Additionally, though unrelated to the killer himself, the rhodamine red that was suggested to be highlighter ink in his hip bag was also found in the garage at the Miyazawa house. So perhaps a garage is actually where that did come from, as well as the barium titanate.

 

[maamager]

Can barium titanate escape from inside electronics? (Which if possible; I think would be the most reasonable, everyday explanation)

snipped for brevity but i’d think with the sand mechanical stress, trace ceramic material could present with environmental particulate matter consistent with sand or dust. Maybe a pager or key/badge fob had passive transfer over time with the interior grit of the bag?

 

[cenazoic]

I’m fairly confident this is how the sand from Edwards AFB was picked up. Pictures from the tennis courts there show sand all over the courts.

Interesting insight! (Especially combined with the shoes.)

Many electronic hobbyist forums warn to always wash your hands when you're done (many mention lead ingestation as the main concern).

That’s due to the lead in (most) solder wire, not the components themselves. Most hobbyist capacitors are quite small and aren’t prone to breaking open without a concerted effort to do so. In any case, the barium titanate would be only part of the dielectric mix, the thickness of which is measured in micrometers (and apparently before 2005, was about .5 micrometers, or 0.000019685 of an inch; not discernible to the human eye.

But speaking of barium titanate, it seems there’s a natural mineral called benitoite (a “rare, blue, bariumtitanium cyclosilicate mineral”):

Benitoite - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

“Benitoite is a rare mineral found in very few locations including San Benito County, California, Japan, and Arkansas.”

 

[Bobban]

I posed my question about barium titanate in an electronics forum and after being ridiculed by my (noob-ish) question the answers were:

Electronics don't leak any barium titanate (older devices included) and neither should brand new devices come with trace amounts from manufacturing.

"Infinitesmal quantities" could possibly be transfered by touch when handling ceramic capacitors, so I'd assume that applies for other components containing barium titanate.

I'd say the conclusion from the question is that someone does indeed have to be digging deep into something (be it automotive or electronics) and tinker around quit a bit to get even the absolute smallest amount to transfer. So a tool that was used for tinkering seems like the best possibility I can find. I think electronic devices like phones and music players simply having been stored in the bag as a cause can be ruled out.

 

[Incoherent]

One thing that is never mentioned is the exact quantity of any of the substances found. The sand, compounds, bird droppings, leaves, etc, are not reported on by exact quantity. Just “traces” sometimes mentioned.

We can likely deduce from the answers we seem to be getting about how difficult it can be, that the barium titanate found was in minute amounts perhaps not even visible initially until the hip bag was meticulously tested. There seems to be a plethora of places it could come from in trace amounts but no definitive answer for what is most likely.

In the context of the POI mostly under discussion in these threads a garage or workshop seems to be most likely to me, as we know that auto tech courses were undertaken by students that could result in the substance transferring. But this is JMO.

 

[Bobban]

I think it's interesting also the way they present their finding of the content of the hip bag with the distinction of "sand from Southwestern USA" and "monazite".

Mindat.org

Mindat.org is the world's leading website about minerals and where they come from.

www.mindat.org

 

[Incoherent]

I think it's interesting also the way they present their finding of the content of the hip bag with the distinction of "sand from Southwestern USA" and "monazite".

Mindat.org

Mindat.org is the world's leading website about minerals and where they come from.

www.mindat.org

Indeed, I just watched back how they explained the substances in the hip bag in Japanese and they said:

Monazite: “monazite, a mineral that should not exist in Japan”
Barium titanate: “barium titanate, used in things like reflective materials, was also detected”

The word for reflective materials used is 反射材 which if you google shows that it aligns more with the materials used on safety jackets or backpacks that reflect in the dark, or safety lights on a bike. Which makes this even more confusing perhaps.

 

[Bobban]

Indeed, I just watched back how they explained the substances in the hip bag in Japanese and they said:

Monazite: “monazite, a mineral that should not exist in Japan”
Barium titanate: “barium titanate, used in things like reflective materials, was also detected”

The word for reflective materials used is 反射材 which if you google shows that it aligns more with the materials used on safety jackets or backpacks that reflect in the dark, or safety lights on a bike. Which makes this even more confusing perhaps.

Them describing it as being used in reflective material could rule out what we were speculating with the usage of barium titanate in electronic and automotive industry as it doesn't seem to be the same thing.

https://www.cospheric.com/BTGMSc_solid_glass_spheres_beads_microns.htm

From linked website: Please note that this material is a unique optical glass formulation based on a large percentage of Barium Oxide (BaO) and Titanium Oxide (TiO2). Barium Titanate glass does not have the dielectric properties of Barium Titanate powder.

Sounds like the glass bead type of barium titanate isn't dielectric and therefore can't be used in the same areas as the powder form they use to make parts for electronics, where being dielectric seems to be their whole purpose.

 

[Bobban]

"monazite, a mineral that should not exist in Japan”
This is also kind of a strange statement. Though rare, I found papers online going back to the 1960s talking about monazite being found in granite pegmatite in Japan, mostly in the southwest and northeast but also some that mention places as close to Tokyo as Yamanashi and Ibaraki prefecture. In Japan the monazite doesn't seem to exist in sand but they use monazite to date rocks and their historic movements. I especially remember reading about a mountain in Yamanashi prefecture in relation to finding monazite but I can't remember the name. I should be able to find it again. I remember thinking "ah, and there is mount Fuji in the corner of my screen, wonder if that has monazite".

Of course, the TMPD must have talked to experts in geology and similair fields and a bit of googling on my part can't compete with that. I'm not challenging their conclusion and statement but I would like to find what they found, that made them say monazite should not exist in Japan. Maybe the specific monazite type they found doesn't exist in Japan. But if they're releasing this much in depth info, why not just say it's monazite-(Ce) or (Nd) and so on that they found.

 

[Incoherent]

"monazite, a mineral that should not exist in Japan”
This is also kind of a strange statement. Though rare, I found papers online going back to the 1960s talking about monazite being found in granite pegmatite in Japan, mostly in the southwest and northeast but also some that mention places as close to Tokyo as Yamanashi and Ibaraki prefecture. In Japan the monazite doesn't seem to exist in sand but they use monazite to date rocks and their historic movements. I especially remember reading about a mountain in Yamanashi prefecture in relation to finding monazite but I can't remember the name. I should be able to find it again. I remember thinking "ah, and there is mount Fuji in the corner of my screen, wonder if that has monazite".

Of course, the TMPD must have talked to experts in geology and similair fields and a bit of googling on my part can't compete with that. I'm not challenging their conclusion and statement but I would like to find what they found, that made them say monazite should not exist in Japan. Maybe the specific monazite type they found doesn't exist in Japan. But if they're releasing this much in depth info, why not just say it's monazite-(Ce) or (Nd) and so on that they found.

No I do agree it is confusing. The picture they used when talking about the barium titanate was the white, fine powder type as well even though they said things like reflective materials. Better clarification is needed. It seems that in this instance they just used the simplest explanation for the audience.

You’re not wrong for feeling frustrated with the lack of transparency surrounding things and aren’t the only one either, trust me!

 

[cenazoic]

@Incoherent , do you know if the latest reportings are using the original tests (in re: substances in bag); or have they ever retested the bag (with presumably the finer-grained tech available today?)