JB/wine cellar

[UKGuy]

DeeDee249,

LE ruled them out right away, despite the obvious finger-pointing by the Rs. I think when JR uttered his comment to Arndt immediately after bringing her body up "This is an inside job" that LHP was exactly who he meant to suggest.

ITA. Also must mean JR is in on the staging plan and cannot be operating by telepathy via PR and the RN.

Otherwise he is definitely saying hey This is an inside job must be Patsy!

Straight from the horses mouth

22 JOHN RAMSEY: Pretty early on.
23 I mean, I think we very early on were concerned
24 about the cleaning lady and the fact that she,
25 you know, asked to borrow money and called Patsy
0513
1 all upset and had a big fight with her sister
2 the day before. I mean this was just kind of
3 like coming out, I didn't know about it, and you
4 know, Officer French was there, we very quickly
5 focused on the cleaning lady. I think they had
6 a wire tap put in place, they got hold of the
7 police in wherever she lives, Lafayette or
8 something like that, and they got involved.
9 So I think they wanted pictures of
10 the party because I think she was -- she was at
11 that 23rd party. Is I think the reason why they
12 wanted that roll of film. As well as they had
13 pictures of JonBenet on it. I don't remember if
14 that was the reason or not, but...

but... JR lets us all know anyway that why he thinks that was the reason, i.e. LHP was suspect No. 1.


.

 

[AndHence]

One thing that's always been weird is John Ramsey's description that JonBenet was 'wrapped like a papoose' (though this simile seems to have been fed to him by Lou Smit). JonBenet's hands were found stretched above her head and rigor mortis had long since set in, so it is inaccurate to say she was wrapped like a papoose when her hands were placed like that.

 

[BBB167893]

One thing that's always been weird is John Ramsey's description that JonBenet was 'wrapped like a papoose' (though this simile seems to have been fed to him by Lou Smit). JonBenet's hands were found stretched above her head and rigor mortis had long since set in, so it is inaccurate to say she was wrapped like a papoose when her hands were placed like that.

But it may provide an insight into John's mind.

 

[andreww]

DeeDee249,

ITA. Also must mean JR is in on the staging plan and cannot be operating by telepathy via PR and the RN.

Otherwise he is definitely saying hey This is an inside job must be Patsy!

Straight from the horses mouth


but... JR lets us all know anyway that why he thinks that was the reason, i.e. LHP was suspect No. 1.


.

Not sure if that means JR was in on the staging or not. In fact I believe he wasn't. If you read Arndt's report, LHP was mentioned quite early by Patsy so there was no telepathic communication required. What is odd is that John removes the binding on her hand and removes the tape from her mouth. Did he have a last minute epiphany that these items wouldn't point at LHP? Sure, I get removing the tape if he had honestly just found her, but why waste time with the hand restraints? Could it be that they were so ineptly applied that he thought it was obvious they were done by a child?

 

[UKGuy]

Not sure if that means JR was in on the staging or not. In fact I believe he wasn't. If you read Arndt's report, LHP was mentioned quite early by Patsy so there was no telepathic communication required. What is odd is that John removes the binding on her hand and removes the tape from her mouth. Did he have a last minute epiphany that these items wouldn't point at LHP? Sure, I get removing the tape if he had honestly just found her, but why waste time with the hand restraints? Could it be that they were so ineptly applied that he thought it was obvious they were done by a child?

andreww,
JR is in on the staging, because he knows how to behave, otherwise he would make understandable mistakes whichever side of the fence he decided to fall on.

Some think JR applied the tape and wrist restraints whenever he moved JonBenet that morning?

JR likely vetoed a prior staging, that's why we have a nonsensical abduction scenario and a homicide running side by side?

JR knew where to find JonBenet how come if he is not in on the staging?

How did Fleet White miss JonBenet, I'll bet he goes to his grave adamant that JonBenet was not in the wine-cellar when he looked?

JR knows what is going on because he retains separate attorneys, not required unless you anticipate some division?

The R's thought they could stage their way out of the case and use their money and status to walk away, they just never saw the media storm coming, those pageant movies along with their millionaire status brought lots of publicity, that's what they never factored in.

The case is evidently BDI with the parents staging for BR, then they do the TV pony and trap show, with their version of events slowly changing to deal with anomalies, the latest being BR and the flashlight.

Once JR goes, there will be a number of documentaries wanting to tell us who did it.

If FW is still with us, he might tell us what he knows, since he cannot be sued for defamation.

.

 

[icedtea4me]

This is regarding the poon print from the Hi-Tec boot. What if it was brought down for its compass to determine which way was east? (I drew a stick figure of JonBenet facing east.)

 

[Miz Adventure]

andreww,
JR is in on the staging, because he knows how to behave, otherwise he would make understandable mistakes whichever side of the fence he decided to fall on.

Some think JR applied the tape and wrist restraints whenever he moved JonBenet that morning?

JR likely vetoed a prior staging, that's why we have a nonsensical abduction scenario and a homicide running side by side?

JR knew where to find JonBenet how come if he is not in on the staging?

How did Fleet White miss JonBenet, I'll bet he goes to his grave adamant that JonBenet was not in the wine-cellar when he looked?

JR knows what is going on because he retains separate attorneys, not required unless you anticipate some division?

The R's thought they could stage their way out of the case and use their money and status to walk away, they just never saw the media storm coming, those pageant movies along with their millionaire status brought lots of publicity, that's what they never factored in.

The case is evidently BDI with the parents staging for BR, then they do the TV pony and trap show, with their version of events slowly changing to deal with anomalies, the latest being BR and the flashlight.

Once JR goes, there will be a number of documentaries wanting to tell us who did it.

If FW is still with us, he might tell us what he knows, since he cannot be sued for defamation.

.

I agree with all of that.

I think we should start getting our own book ready. Websleuth posters have already guessed what happened on that fateful night. It's just the small details we need to fill in.

The story won't need a lot of dramatization.

 

[andreww]

andreww,
JR is in on the staging, because he knows how to behave, otherwise he would make understandable mistakes whichever side of the fence he decided to fall on.

Some think JR applied the tape and wrist restraints whenever he moved JonBenet that morning?

JR likely vetoed a prior staging, that's why we have a nonsensical abduction scenario and a homicide running side by side?

JR knew where to find JonBenet how come if he is not in on the staging?

How did Fleet White miss JonBenet, I'll bet he goes to his grave adamant that JonBenet was not in the wine-cellar when he looked?

JR knows what is going on because he retains separate attorneys, not required unless you anticipate some division?

The R's thought they could stage their way out of the case and use their money and status to walk away, they just never saw the media storm coming, those pageant movies along with their millionaire status brought lots of publicity, that's what they never factored in.

The case is evidently BDI with the parents staging for BR, then they do the TV pony and trap show, with their version of events slowly changing to deal with anomalies, the latest being BR and the flashlight.

Once JR goes, there will be a number of documentaries wanting to tell us who did it.

If FW is still with us, he might tell us what he knows, since he cannot be sued for defamation.

.

John tells cops all the doors were checked. He doesn't mention the broken unlatched window. He gives detectives the notepad that the ransom note was on.

John did know where to find JB but that was likely because he found her at 11:00.

According to Kolar, Fleet didn't really look in the WC. He was probably more concerned with seeing a light switch. The fact that the door was latched on the outside means that JB couldn't have been hiding in there as he had hoped.

JR became aware what was going on at 11:00. He put the pieces together.

The rest of your points are speculation, but there is no evidence to show that John had any idea what was happening prior to the 911 call except for lying about Burke being asleep which might be the understandable actions of a protective parent.

 

[andreww]

This is regarding the poon print from the Hi-Tec boot. What if it was brought down for its compass to determine which way was east? (I drew a stick figure of JonBenet facing east.)

Why on earth would anybody need to know what way is east?

 

[kanzz]

Why on earth would anybody need to know what way is east?

Right? I'm scratching my head. But I'm pretty sure they wouldn't need to enter that room or put a boot print in the floor in order to determine direction.
:thinking:

Nope. Not adding up.

 

[UKGuy]

John tells cops all the doors were checked. He doesn't mention the broken unlatched window. He gives detectives the notepad that the ransom note was on.

John did know where to find JB but that was likely because he found her at 11:00.

According to Kolar, Fleet didn't really look in the WC. He was probably more concerned with seeing a light switch. The fact that the door was latched on the outside means that JB couldn't have been hiding in there as he had hoped.

JR became aware what was going on at 11:00. He put the pieces together.

The rest of your points are speculation, but there is no evidence to show that John had any idea what was happening prior to the 911 call except for lying about Burke being asleep which might be the understandable actions of a protective parent.

andreww,
BBM: and relocating BR out of the house, ASAP. How does he know to do that if he only puts the pieces together post 11:00?

Anyway how does finding JonBenet mean JR can do what we cannot, and work out why JonBenet is lying dead somewhere in the basement.

Also why not report he found her, seems the natural thing to do? Why credit JR with superior insight that nobody else seems to possess?

Nope, it's so obvious, JR is in on the staging, he might even have cleaned up some evidence, e.g. tossed the pink nightgown into the wine-cellar?

Then there are JR's fibers on JonBenet's naked groin, its not a smoking gun, but hey they should not really be there.

.

 

[UKGuy]

This is regarding the poon print from the Hi-Tec boot. What if it was brought down for its compass to determine which way was east? (I drew a stick figure of JonBenet facing east.)

icedtea4me,
I never knew BR was muslim? Anyway Kolar says BR was down in the basement Christmas Day opening his gifts, hence the poon print.

The wine-cellar might be completely independent of the bedroom assault on JonBenet, other than the parents decided to relocate JonBenet from her bedroom.

.

 

[Miz Adventure]

JR became aware what was going on at 11:00. He put the pieces together.
.

I believe that JR became aware of what was going on a lot earlier than 11am.

He was probably in bed when he heard Patsy scream. She had just been down to the basement to see what BR was up to and found her daughter had been strangled. That's my theory.

I feel sure that Patsy would have needed John's emotional support to get her through the shock and to help cope with what followed.

 

[ZoriahNZ]

DeeDee249,

ITA. Also must mean JR is in on the staging plan and cannot be operating by telepathy via PR and the RN.

Otherwise he is definitely saying hey This is an inside job must be Patsy!

Straight from the horses mouth


but... JR lets us all know anyway that why he thinks that was the reason, i.e. LHP was suspect No. 1.


.

Both JR and PR were fingering LHP from the start as evidenced by Officer French's report. Some of the details don't even make sense to me, LHP asked for a $2000 loan and was upset about her brother and this was cause enough for suspicion? I guess they had to eliminate those who had spare keys first since JR had been sure the place was locked up tight when he checked.

https://shakedowntitle.files.wordpress.com/2016/05/file-nov-23-6-43-34-pm.jpeg

 

[icedtea4me]

Why on earth would anybody need to know what way is east?

Q: Why are people buried facing east?

A: QUICK ANSWER
Under Christian traditions, people are buried with their feet pointed eastwards to follow the belief that the Second Coming of Jesus would occur from the east. This belief originates from a statement in the book of Matthew where the return of Jesus would originate from the East.

https://www.reference.com/world-view/people-buried-facing-eeast-df088ee5963da6ff

Patsy: "Jesus! You raised Lazarus from the dead! Please raise my baby!"

 

[icedtea4me]

icedtea4me,
I never knew BR was muslim? *snip*
.

If you had made the slightest effort, you would have learned that Muslims pray facing the Kaaba in Mecca.

The Qibla (Arabic: قبلة‎‎‎, "direction"), also transliterated as Qiblah, Qibleh, Kiblah, Kıble or Kibla, is the direction that should be faced when a Muslim prays during salah prayers. It is fixed as the direction of the Kaaba in Mecca. Most mosques contain a wall niche, known as mihrab, that indicates the Qiblah. Most multifaith prayer rooms will also contain a Qibla, although usually less standardized in appearance than one would find within a mosque.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qibla

 

[andreww]

andreww,
BBM: and relocating BR out of the house, ASAP. How does he know to do that if he only puts the pieces together post 11:00?

Anyway how does finding JonBenet mean JR can do what we cannot, and work out why JonBenet is lying dead somewhere in the basement.

Also why not report he found her, seems the natural thing to do? Why credit JR with superior insight that nobody else seems to possess?

Nope, it's so obvious, JR is in on the staging, he might even have cleaned up some evidence, e.g. tossed the pink nightgown into the wine-cellar?

Then there are JR's fibers on JonBenet's naked groin, its not a smoking gun, but hey they should not really be there.

.

That morning was a period of discovery for John. The RN likely got the gears turning in his head. Something wasn't right. So it isn't that odd that he would want the weakest link out of the house. I'd protect my kids too.

If it's so obvious that John was in on it please explain why he would do such stupid things as handing over the RN pad or telling cops the house was secure?

John suspected Patsy from the moment he saw that note but he had to put that aside as he was concerned for JB. When he found the body he put two and two together and figured Burke might have been responsible. Burke's knife at the scene would have assured that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[andreww]

Both JR and PR were fingering LHP from the start as evidenced by Officer French's report. Some of the details don't even make sense to me, LHP asked for a $2000 loan and was upset about her brother and this was cause enough for suspicion? I guess they had to eliminate those who had spare keys first since JR had been sure the place was locked up tight when he checked.

https://shakedowntitle.files.wordpress.com/2016/05/file-nov-23-6-43-34-pm.jpeg

Likely through leading questions. Like "does anybody owe you money or have they been asking for money?" This would be a common question when trying to identify suspects.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Miz Adventure]

If you had made the slightest effort, you would have learned that Muslims pray facing the Kaaba in Mecca.

If we had made the slightest bit of effort....!" Thanks for that, but I suspect that most of us already know about bodies facing east. The question was why in the world would anyone want JBR's body to face east?

This person who did the killing would have surely had a bit more than that on his mind?

 

[UKGuy]

That morning was a period of discovery for John. The RN likely got the gears turning in his head. Something wasn't right. So it isn't that odd that he would want the weakest link out of the house. I'd protect my kids too.

If it's so obvious that John was in on it please explain why he would do such stupid things as handing over the RN pad or telling cops the house was secure?

John suspected Patsy from the moment he saw that note but he had to put that aside as he was concerned for JB. When he found the body he put two and two together and figured Burke might have been responsible. Burke's knife at the scene would have assured that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

andreww,
BBM: what grounds would he have for thinking that? Surely Patsy would be suspect number one?

If it's so obvious that John was in on it please explain why he would do such stupid things as handing over the RN pad or telling cops the house was secure?

Psychology, psychology, psychology, nobody pulls off the perfect crime without exhibiting maladaptive behavior .

All your points remind me of the Bible Code where if you look hard enough you can come up with stuff to prove whatever you have assumed, i.e. Elvis is the Messiah who will be resurrected in the year ...

.