Jodi Arias TAKES THE STAND #38 *may contain graphic and adult content*

[BritsKate]

what would be suspicious is getting a call from a hysterical person at 3 a.m. who can't tell me what happened or why she knows the person is dead. what would you do?

We don't know the context of the conversation. (Or at least I sure don't - but neither have, nor want, access to HLN, IS, Nancy, etc.)

I've gotten that call before though. Here's what I did: I cried, a lot, and questioned if there was a god. There were almost no details released to her family therefore we, her friends, initially knew next to nothing. No one could tell me what happened, how she was murdered, or most importantly who could do such a thing.

It never even entered my mind I should speak to the police though because I knew nothing that would've helped them. My parents never urged me to either for the same reason. (I was 16 at the time.) Had police approached me, I would've been forthcoming though still didn't know anything, but they never did.

 

[AZlawyer]

Under that criteria wouldn't ALL murder be considered 'especially cruel'?

No. If she'd shot him in the head once and he died instantly, there would have been no argument re: cruelty.

 

[Truth Detector]

When at the firing range I can smell gunpowder in the air. I don't see it on my hands nor do I smell it.

True, but the residue can usually be detected, even on the skin, for some hours later.

 

[Zuri]

Thanks; I've wondered how to accurately perform this post-mortem.

I would not expect uniformity of findings with respect to data which result from decomposition/fermentation processes.

From which tissue(s) would the extraction take place?

Are multiple samples extracted and tested or only a single one?

If only one source, how is that determined, assuming availability of the entire cadaver?

Any coroners/M.E.'s present?

Not a coroner, but I do have some knowledge so I hope this helps. Decomp does occur at different rates. Solid organs like the liver decompose more slowly. Tissue samples are generally taken from all the organs as they are taken out and examined. Although the body may have obvious injuries that would appear to be cause of death, the tissues are examined for toxins like poison. Depending on the organ being examined, the sampling technique may vary, meaning punch needle vs. scalpel etc. hope this helps. I will run this past a path guy on Monday to be sure.

 

[Stolat]

You may be right because we know from the 911 call that she was suspected even before the police arrived.

Yes, and I'm sure Daniel told her that as well. When police were casing her place, wasn't it reported that she appeared to be packing up as if making a run for the border?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

In transcribing, this is what troubles me, as much as I love the guy.

----------------------

ME: I think I've said it here in court that I don't think it would immediately incapacitate him or kill him. But it would be a serious injury, but I don't recall telling Detective Flores that, no.

Defense: Ok, so, let me back up for a second, so you are saying the gunshot wound is not immediately incapacitating?

ME: I would say not immediately fatal

Defense: I'm not talking about fatal, I'm just talking about incapacitating

ME: I think...yes, it would be incapacitating, passing through his brain, so yes

I think you have to put it into context. His opinion is the head wound was incapacitating.

From MEs testimony

3 specific injury could have led to death. . . stab wound to chest - slit of throat and shot to the head rapidly fatal.

projectile going thru front of brain - lose consciousness and then go down

Slashing of the throat - it is most severe injury - most bleedng from jugular

Most fatal - chest? middle - significant injury it would cause death without med attn but not loss conscious immediate

One to neck and head - cause loss conscious immediate

One to the chest would not.

Defensive wounds to hands - occurred before fatal injury to head or throat.

TA attempted to grab the knife.

Sequencing of events . . . one to head an slit of throat? -

Throat and head wound TA couldn't have purposeful movement - he would have been unconscious

 

[zoey]

I'm not aware that there was, but she could easily explain it away by virtue of having lived there off and on in the weeks prior.

As she did. However, palm print had hers and Travis blood

 

[WhoaIsMe]

Why would you call the police and report it? What would be suspicious about it to you? While I think Gus is a media .... I also believe that if he did receive such a call it would not have raised any flags until JA was arrested.

It's only suspicious to me if she called him the night of the murder, because then if Gus doesn't hear anyone else at PPL talking about TA being dead nor does he mention it, and then 5 days later he is found murdered, it gets fishy. But as someone has already pointed out from his calender, it was probably the 9th and Gus is just letting the media be confused about it for more face time. He does go along with it being the night of the murder in that video though and when he is questioned about why he didn't call the police he defends himself by saying that he did call the DA but the DA did not return his call.

 

[FrayedKnot]

No. If she'd shot him in the head once and he died instantly, there would have been no argument re: cruelty.

Aha! Thanks for that, AZ. :rocker:

However, in Travis' case, the amount of blood would indicate that even if TA were shot first ( my belief), he did not die immediately. At least it seems that way from what I understand of spatter and droplet patterns, etc. Does that sound about right?

Too bad for JA's defense. Ahem. :innocent:

 

[AZlawyer]

Aha! Thanks for that, AZ. :rocker:

However, in Travis' case, the amount of blood would indicate that even if TA were shot first ( my belief), he did not die immediately. At least it seems that way from what I understand of spatter and droplet patterns, etc. Does that sound about right?

Too bad for JA's defense. Ahem. :innocent:

Yes, that's why I don't think the "gunshot first" argument is helpful for the defense. Who cares if she wanted to kill him humanely? She didn't. And she sure didn't kill him in "self defense" if he was sitting in a shower naked and she pointed the gun at his head and shot. You don't get to claim "self defense" just because the gunshot didn't work as cleanly as you had hoped and your victim then "attacks" you in shock and confusion while spurting blood all over the place.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

We don't know the context of the conversation. (Or at least I sure don't - but neither have, nor want, access to HLN, IS, Nancy, etc.)

I've gotten that call before though. Here's what I did: I cried, a lot, and questioned if there was a god. There were almost no details released to her family therefore we, her friends, initially knew next to nothing. No one could tell me what happened, how she was murdered, or most importantly who could do such a thing.

It never even entered my mind I should speak to the police though because I knew nothing that would've helped them. My parents never urged me to either for the same reason. (I was 16 at the time.) Had police approached me, I would've been forthcoming though still didn't know anything, but they never did.

Gus should have been suspicious because to hear him tell it he had only been around Jodi in person a couple of times other than that he communicated over the phone with her or emails.

So why would she select to call him and no one else? Either he is much closer to Jodi than he lets on or he should have been puzzled that she called him in the middle of the night.

imo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Yes, that's why I don't think the "gunshot first" argument is helpful for the defense. Who cares if she wanted to kill him humanely? She didn't. And she sure didn't kill him in "self defense" if he was sitting in a shower naked and she pointed the gun at his head and shot. You don't get to claim "self defense" just because the gunshot didn't work as cleanly as you had hoped and your victim then "attacks" you in shock and confusion while spurting blood all over the place.

In fact if she just came up and shot him in the head and he was ambulatory wouldnt he have a legal right to defend himself from his attacker? Does the self defense rule just apply to Jodi or is it equally applied to Travis who was in his own home taking a shower while being attacked?

tia

 

[shelley921]

Gus was not friends with Travis, they knew each other only. It is 3am and Gus leaves on a trip to Cancun the next day....I mean look at what we know of him. It sounds like it didn't cross his mind again until JA was arrested. jmo

Oh btw, you probably are correct on the question.

what would YOU do popsickle? NOTHING?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

As she did. However, palm print had hers and Travis blood

And they found her hair among the blood also.

IMO

 

[Zuri]

After listening to the blood analysis, there was a sock print, a shoe print, and a bare foot print. Do we know who they may have belonged to? Or I should ask has it been confirmed who they belonged to? Also, there was testimony that there had been attempts to clean up. There was water evidence on the underside of the bath mat and rug. That whole thing bothers me. Why would you clean up if it was self defense. Rhetorical I know.

 

[StephanieHartPI]

I think you have to put it into context. His opinion is the head wound was incapacitating.

From MEs testimony

3 specific injury could have led to death. . . stab wound to chest - slit of throat and shot to the head rapidly fatal.

projectile going thru front of brain - lose consciousness and then go down

Slashing of the throat - it is most severe injury - most bleedng from jugular

Most fatal - chest? middle - significant injury it would cause death without med attn but not loss conscious immediate

One to neck and head - cause loss conscious immediate

One to the chest would not.

Defensive wounds to hands - occurred before fatal injury to head or throat.

TA attempted to grab the knife.

Sequencing of events . . . one to head an slit of throat? -

Throat and head wound TA couldn't have purposeful movement - he would have been unconscious

The ME did indicate (along with Juan) he agreed cut to the neck 1st. That might mean the non fatal one, not that big slash.

 

[Truth Detector]

she had 2 knives and a gun in her clothing when arrested. she had recently purchased a gun. (i thought she was broke) her mother said she had a gun hidden in a rental car and it was retrieved. which rental car was this? i know of only one she rented to go to mesa. was there another car? what was she going to do with these? the gun and knife used in the murder have never been recovered. so is it 2 additional guns she acquired? sorry so many questions.

There was a red rental car she was to use to leave her grandparents house at the time of her arrest.

LE obtained a search warrant and recovered boxes of books and two knives. They did not find another gun at that time. Later, they traced the rental car and located, ostensibly on information from her mother, a 9mm handgun which was hidden in the rental car but which LE did not find upon executing the initial, warranted search. I do not know what she was going to do with them.

They were probably intended as lines of defense from the make-believe ninjas.

 

[Sustained]

There was a red rental car she was to use to leave her grandparents house at the time of her arrest.

LE obtained a search warrant and recovered boxes of books and two knives. They did not find another gun at that time. Later, they traced the rental car and located, ostensibly on information from her mother, a 9mm handgun which was hidden in the rental car but which LE did not find upon executing the initial, warranted search. I do not know what she was going to do with them.

They were probably intended as lines of defense from the make-believe ninjas.

Or to take out someone that might testify against her ...

 

[Pink Panther]

Yes, that's why I don't think the "gunshot first" argument is helpful for the defense. Who cares if she wanted to kill him humanely? She didn't. And she sure didn't kill him in "self defense" if he was sitting in a shower naked and she pointed the gun at his head and shot. You don't get to claim "self defense" just because the gunshot didn't work as cleanly as you had hoped and your victim then "attacks" you in shock and confusion while spurting blood all over the place.

Agreed. It will be interesting to see how she will try to twist her information around to suit the photographs + self-defence.

ETA - Wasn't the Defence upset about the fact that the ME testified that the gun shot was not first?

 

[FrayedKnot]

Yes, that's why I don't think the "gunshot first" argument is helpful for the defense. Who cares if she wanted to kill him humanely? She didn't. And she sure didn't kill him in "self defense" if he was sitting in a shower naked and she pointed the gun at his head and shot. You don't get to claim "self defense" just because the gunshot didn't work as cleanly as you had hoped and your victim then "attacks" you in shock and confusion while spurting blood all over the place.

Yes. ITA that the gunshot first hasn't any bearing on SD given the rest of the crime. I do believe that the circumstances of that awful relationship was a catalyst for JA planning and carrying out TA's murder. But as far as I know, that ain't no excuse and it dadgum sure doesn't describe self-defense.

And honestly the only reason I believe it came first is just that it makes the most sense to me and with all due respect to the ME, I don't think that the gunshot coming last was cemented for me by his testimony. :twocents: