John Fernie

[DeeDee249]

I always had the feeling that the Whites weren't really sure what happened- just eventually realized there was no way IDI + Ramsey weird behavior + botched investigation = no justice for JB.

So if they don't have any details there is really nothing- at least no "smoking gun" to reveal. JMO

Only those who were there can be sure of what happened. That being said, FW does know what happened in the winecellar when JR "found" JB's body. I would hope he has told police. But as far as any public comments on his beliefs, I doubt he would make any.
Both JR and Patsy made thinly veiled hints that the White's were involved. They made comments about how "odd" it was that PW left a plate of cracked crab for JB - this was after the Rs ASKED her to. And Patsy made comments that PW had a similar fleece sweater to the one she wore that night. And I think FW may have felt he'd better keep his mouth shut unless he wanted fingers pointing at him. Of course, there was no evidence linking him (or anyone else, really, other than the family) to the crime. But I don't think he wanted to see himself or his family thrown under the bus.

 

[Arnie M]

I have always been curious what was said in the calls to the Fernies and Whites that morning .... was it "hysterical" like the 911 call to police .... was it Patsy or John who made the calls .... what exactly did they say etc.

I have never read any reports on that.

 

[Frigga]

I have always been curious what was said in the calls to the Fernies and Whites that morning .... was it "hysterical" like the 911 call to police .... was it Patsy or John who made the calls .... what exactly did they say etc.

I have never read any reports on that.

I would like to know that too Arnie, especially WHO made the calls and as you wrote- what was said? Times of calls also!

 

[Anyhoo]

I would like to know that too Arnie, especially WHO made the calls and as you wrote- what was said? Times of calls also!

As would I. Since the 911 call was staged, these calls would likely be staged also, assuming they were even made. Since LE was prevented from getting access to the phone records, we must rely on the word of PR and the people who say they were called over that morning. But I ask myself, not for the first time, is that truth or just part of a convenient cover story? When it comes to this murder, I trust no one. Wouldn't it be interesting if the phone records were supressed because they revealed a different scenario than what PR and JR so carefully presented to LE? Innocent people have nothing to hide, so there should have been no legitimate reason to deny them unless there was some smoking gun on there that would have blown the case wide open.

 

[deca]

I would think that at this point, if the Whites had been called EARLY that morning (rather than after the 911 call time) they would have told all to the police.

 

[dodie20]

DeeDee249;.

Yes, I agree completely. That is what I believe happened.




Again I agree that was my point. I think it is entirely possible that friends would, at least in the beginning, refuse to accept that their good friend was a party to the death of their own child. I cannot think of one friend of mine that I would immediately "suspect" in such a situation, even with the very strange events of the first day.

My point was only that I cannot imagine a friendship strong enough that one would cover intentionally if you believed your friend killed their own child nor even more far fetched where you would aid that friend in the cover up.

I can, however, see initially believing in your friends innocence. In fact, I think that is the normal reaction. I am pretty sure FW went over there with the sincere belief that his friends had just suffered a horrible tragedy, if he only believed in the kidnapping at the time. However, I think he was probably one of the very first to start to see the light probably because he was so closely involved in the events of the first day.

I think FW started seeing the light as soon as JB's body was found. He could give friends the benefit of the doubt up to a point, but here was indisputable proof that JB wasn't kidnapped. And what options did that leave? Depending on how well he knew the Rs, and how well he knew what kind of people they really were, it might not have been a long process between empathy for friends to suspicion. For instance, had he heard about the reported mega JB intervention? Another indicator could have been on how much, if any, he knew about the pageant stuff. If he had seen a picture of JB in the showgirl outfit for instance, he might have been suspicious of the parents. Because face it, normal parents wouldn't let their kid parade around so sexualized. So I'm wondering how much the Rs friends knew about their private lives. moo

 

[Anyhoo]

I would like to know that too Arnie, especially WHO made the calls and as you wrote- what was said? Times of calls also!

I would think that at this point, if the Whites had been called EARLY that morning (rather than after the 911 call time) they would have told all to the police.

If they were innocent and not in any way involved, correct. But that would be an assumption.

 

[dodie20]

One of the suspicious things about the back stairs as a place to leave the note is that these back stairs were a "communication" location for Patsy and her housekeeper LHP. When Patsy had something to tell her she'd leave a note on the back stairs. LHP would do the same, as frequently Patsy was not at home when she was there cleaning. Patsy also left her handbags on that stairs for LHO to vacuum and clean out each week. By choosing that staircase as a place to leave the RN, it may have been a way to point blame at LHP, just as JR tried to do when he said it was an "inside job". It is no secret that LHO was one of the first names given to LE as a possible suspect. Police questioned her right away. Nothing was ever found that would link her to the crime. LHO and her family all gave saliva and writing samples to LE.
A real kidnapper would likely leave the note on the child's bed or at least in a place a stranger might think would be seen by the parents right away. Only people who knew Patsy knew that she used the back stairs instead of the main staircase. It wouldn't be the first thing a stranger would think of.

In PR's police interview, she related the events of that day and she mentioned the flurry of police activity surrounding LHP. Evidently, they had real reason to suspect this woman, and IMO, PR probably laid the stair connection on pretty thick. As if...LHP may not have been a genius, but did PR really expect LE to believe that she left her a note on the staircase, 'as usual'? LHP's lucky LE didn't buy into the garbage...because If PR had put a little more thought into it, I think she could have done a decent frame job. One thing though is PR knew LHP pretty well and obviously trusted her, so if she was trying to do a convincing frame job, her reactions shouldn't have been so hopeless and devastated. She would have trusted LHP more to get JB back, unharmed. moo

 

[Charterhouse]

Also, don't forget FWjr and BR played together. Children often talk to other children about things that they don't talk to adults about.

 

[dodie20]

Also, don't forget FWjr and BR played together. Children often talk to other children about things that they don't talk to adults about.

and I think I remember PR saying JB played with the Ws little girl...no telling what JB might have said without even realizing it. IMO, JB seemed to be a little girl crying for help...the wetting/ soiling issues, crying about not feeling pretty, going to the school nurse, the screaming/crying in the bathroom, and most of all, her loud excruciating scream that woke up the neighbor. I wish I knew more about the school nurse visits-or even if they were verified, because that's a huge red flag, IMO. A 6 year old turning to a trusted 'medical' figure for help, speaks loud and clear. moo

 

[Arnie M]

I would like to know that too Arnie, especially WHO made the calls and as you wrote- what was said? Times of calls also!

--- Patsy called 911. At 5:52 a.m.

--- Officer Rick French was dispatched to 755 15th Street in Boulder at approximately 5:52 a.m. on the report of a possible kidnapping.

--- Arriving almost immediately after the first officers on scene were John and Barbara Fernie, close friends of both John and Patsy. They were soon joined by Fleet and Priscilla White,


Appears Patsy called Fleet/Fernie after her 911 call and before French arrived. (From memory I think it took 9 minutes for French to get to the house)

from the Bonita document http://www.acandyrose.com/1999-BonitaPapers.htm

 

[DeeDee249]

and I think I remember PR saying JB played with the Ws little girl...no telling what JB might have said without even realizing it. IMO, JB seemed to be a little girl crying for help...the wetting/ soiling issues, crying about not feeling pretty, going to the school nurse, the screaming/crying in the bathroom, and most of all, her loud excruciating scream that woke up the neighbor. I wish I knew more about the school nurse visits-or even if they were verified, because that's a huge red flag, IMO. A 6 year old turning to a trusted 'medical' figure for help, speaks loud and clear. moo

I'd say the refusal of the school to turn over the nurse's reports is enough "verification" to me.

 

[deca]

I think this is where the Ramsey lawyers started throwing their weight around and putting fear in the heart of possible witnesses.
If JB had been in and out of the school's nursing office...her teachers would have known. If JB had said odd things at school, acted strangely: teacher(s) would have known, maybe other students even.
Anyone that would have prolonged regular contact with her through pageants, friendship, Sunday school teacher, whatever- could have had insight into JB's state before her murder.

Same with BR.

And yet there are really no reports, no rumors even from any of those people.

 

[BOESP]

Iirc, one of JonBenet's teachers (or maybe the nurse) stated JonBenet had become "clingy" at school in the weeks before she died, something to the effect that she didn't want to let go of Patsy. This was either in Steve Thomas's book or the Bonita Papers (which are in the archives at the Forums For Justice website).

 

[dodie20]

I think this is where the Ramsey lawyers started throwing their weight around and putting fear in the heart of possible witnesses.
If JB had been in and out of the school's nursing office...her teachers would have known. If JB had said odd things at school, acted strangely: teacher(s) would have known, maybe other students even.
Anyone that would have prolonged regular contact with her through pageants, friendship, Sunday school teacher, whatever- could have had insight into JB's state before her murder.

Same with BR.

And yet there are really no reports, no rumors even from any of those people.

I agree, but at the same time, a few things did slip out. LHP talked about the bathroom screaming and tears for instance. Overall though, I'm not sure that JB would have acted out of the ordinary enough for most people to take notice. Abused children are taught very well to not discuss certain things, and they don't. IMO, JB's abuse might be what caused this murder. The reported mega JB intervention, would show that people were on to something being wrong in this household, and IMO, PR couldn't have handled people butting into her private business...especially THIS business. If she found out about the intervention, she would have been furious and under even more stress. Even if she didn't hear about the intervention, maybe a concerned parent mentioning something to her could have caused her to snap. IDK, because like you said, so little has been released, but IMO, it looks like people were catching on that all wasn't right with the Rs. moo

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I think this is where the Ramsey lawyers started throwing their weight around and putting fear in the heart of possible witnesses.
If JB had been in and out of the school's nursing office...her teachers would have known. If JB had said odd things at school, acted strangely: teacher(s) would have known, maybe other students even.
Anyone that would have prolonged regular contact with her through pageants, friendship, Sunday school teacher, whatever- could have had insight into JB's state before her murder.

Same with BR.

And yet there are really no reports, no rumors even from any of those people.

I read an article once that said the tabloids were running around Boulder with their wallets open, yet no one would talk. I definitely think some people were fearful of the R's and their team. That's not to say that I think their lawyers were actually threatening people, but it was obvious that there would be issues if they started revealing information. It's also possible that a lot of people just don't want their names released to the media, do not want to be part of the circus, etc.

 

[Anyhoo]

I agree, but at the same time, a few things did slip out. LHP talked about the bathroom screaming and tears for instance. Overall though, I'm not sure that JB would have acted out of the ordinary enough for most people to take notice. Abused children are taught very well to not discuss certain things, and they don't. IMO, JB's abuse might be what caused this murder. The reported mega JB intervention, would show that people were on to something being wrong in this household, and IMO, PR couldn't have handled people butting into her private business...especially THIS business. If she found out about the intervention, she would have been furious and under even more stress. Even if she didn't hear about the intervention, maybe a concerned parent mentioning something to her could have caused her to snap. IDK, because like you said, so little has been released, but IMO, it looks like people were catching on that all wasn't right with the Rs. moo

You said something which I think is important, something which I and I imagine a lot of other people lose sight of when trying to figure out this crime. JB was sexually abused before 12-25, perhaps many times. I have known that but considered it just another piece of information but you said what I intuitively believe is true: that the murder is directly connected with the sexual abuse. JB would not have been murdered had their been no sexual abuse. The two are tied together. This could shed further light on what happened and why.

 

[cherisa]

I just read I PMPT that Daphne White or Pricilla White(unclear which one) told officers that Fleet changed her jb's panties??? Page 239?

My mother would have never let a man change my panties when I was 6... A family friend? Not even an uncle..plaus who would've wanted too?? This made me a bit sick when I read it. What I mean is what sort of man changes a 6 year olds panties? A six year old can change her own panties

 

[txsvicki]

Did the book say JonBenet was six when that happened? I don't think Patsy paid much attention to kids unless performing and that they were neglected somewhat, and the friends and relatives knew.

 

[cherisa]

Did the book say JonBenet was six when that happened? I don't think Patsy paid much attention to kids unless performing and that they were neglected somewhat, and the friends and relatives knew.

It didn't say she was six, but my 4 year old niece wouldn't let a man change her panties... So, was he only doing this when she was an infant? I still think it's creepy. It's not moo...it was written in schillers book. I don't know about Patsy's childrearing at all, cause that is heresy anyway, I just find it disturbing is all..I felt like bringing it up.