John Ramsey and ransom note...

NothingSurprisesAnymore

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If PR wrote the RN, how or why did JR consent or allow it to ever be seen?
He seems too intelligent to allow such an obviously fake note to be the foundation of the kidnap staging.
 
If PR wrote the RN, how or why did JR consent or allow it to ever be seen?
He seems too intelligent to allow such an obviously fake note to be the foundation of the kidnap staging.
They might have written it together - John knew and was there at the time Patsy wrote it. Maybe he was even telling Patsy what to write, at least in some parts. In my opinion, the length, style and the nonsense written in it is deliberate. It is to add confusion to it, and IMO, it serves it purpose well. And I sometimes think that this "absurd" ransom note is what has saved them the whole time.
 
They might have written it together - John knew and was there at the time Patsy wrote it. Maybe he was even telling Patsy what to write, at least in some parts. In my opinion, the length, style and the nonsense written in it is deliberate. It is to add confusion to it, and IMO, it serves it purpose well. And I sometimes think that this "absurd" ransom note is what has saved them the whole time.
Thank you for replying. The RN seems so obviously staged to me that I would think JR would believe instead of confusing the matter it would paradoxically point an even stronger finger to them being complicit.
 
Thank you for replying. The RN seems so obviously staged to me that I would think JR would believe instead of confusing the matter it would paradoxically point an even stronger finger to them being complicit.
Well, since the note has Patsy written all over it, I think that he just might have trusted her to do her thing, after all, she knew something about writing. I don't think that they were too down to earth that night to calmly discuss every aspect of it's "if's and how's" when they did it all. IMO
 
Well, since the note has Patsy written all over it, I think that he just might have trusted her to do her thing, after all, she knew something about writing. I don't think that they were too down to earth that night to calmly discuss every aspect of it's "if's and how's" when they did it all. IMO
It seems JR would have critiqued the RN since it was foundational to staging.
The note being what it was made me wonder if JR was brought in to the death of JBR at the last minute.
 
In one of my theories JR didn't know about what happened that night. I even believe the main purpose of the ransom note was for PR to make JR believe the killer was someone from his past and therefore not her. That's why the references to his bonus and good southern common sense.
 
In one of my theories JR didn't know about what happened that night. I even believe the main purpose of the ransom note was for PR to make JR believe the killer was someone from his past and therefore not her. That's why the references to his bonus and good southern common sense.
That's Steve Thomas' theory.
 
That's Steve Thomas' theory.
Really? I knew he thought PR did it but not that the note was written to fool JR as well as police. It seems most people think that PR would have needed help writing it but I think she did pretty much everything that night except the window was already broken by JR a long time ago.

Also, I think she might have lied to JR after police left that it was BR who did it and all she did was cover it up. That would explain him staying with her. Unless she had something on him like he did the SA or something that prevented him from coming forward and telling the truth.
 
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Really? I knew he thought PR did it but not that the note was written to fool JR as well as police. It seems most people think that PR would have needed help writing it but I think she did pretty much everything that night except the window was already broken by JR a long time ago.

Also, I think she might have lied to JR after police left that it was BR who did it and all she did was cover it up. That would explain him staying with her. Unless she had something on him like he did the SA or something that prevented him from coming forward and telling the truth.

In Steve Thomas' book JonBenet, Steve Thomas does indeed speculate that Patsy wrote the ransom note to fool both John and the police. I think Thomas thinks that's why John and Patsy "were in two separate camps" after the 911 call but before JonBenet's body was found, as opposed to John and Patsy clinging to each other, which is the expected behavior of two parents whose child has been kidnapped. John was suspicious of Patsy. I think John was thinking "should I side with Patsy or should I turn on Patsy" during that time.
 
John readily handed over to BPD the notepad which was used to write the RN. The practice note was inside. Missing pages from the middle of the pad had been torn out. After the RN was written, the felt tip was returned to its proper place.

The author was familiar with the use of a caret.
 
If PR wrote the RN, how or why did JR consent or allow it to ever be seen?
He seems too intelligent to allow such an obviously fake note to be the foundation of the kidnap staging.

While the note was a big risk, time pressure left few options. But you've got me questioning.....

I think Patsy wrote the note and have accepted the view that it was her exaggerated idea of what a ransom note should be. Instead of three sentences it was three pages. It was needlessly dramatic and descriptive, verging on personal bullying towards the end. JonBenet was dead, and they were going to have to call the police. And then what? Maybe the long descriptions of what John was supposed to do and not do was a way of filling in the blank on the other side of that phone call, of gaining some sense of control.

But was it really just typical OTT Patsy? I’m now rethinking that view. Patsy and John liked movies, had a collection of DVDs and posters, and a retractable movie screen installed in their bedroom The RN incorporated lines from various films. Patsy was a writer. She had worked in public relations and was alert to language and presentation. She knew perfectly well what a real ransom note was like! So why have we accepted this idea that Patsy didn't realize she'd penned a highly questionable fake? And once we remove the idea we have to ask why, in the midst of her awful situation, did she spend considerable time and effort to write the “War and Peace” version when a terse one would have been more realistic and far less taxing?

If Patsy had written a typical ransom note, what would have been different? No memorable story of the three pages spread across the stair step. Minimal deflection of suspicion and no suggestions of possible suspects. When the call didn’t happen, all suspicion would have fallen directly on John and Patsy. More police officers would have been sent in, the house would have been thoroughly searched and JBR’s body found. The discovery scene would have been preserved. Concealed evidence might have been found. John and Patsy would have been questioned right away, separately, or taken into custody if they refused to talk before hiring a lawyer. In short, the whole course of things would have been different. I believe Patsy wrote the long RN not just to invent a kidnapper but, in a sense, to conjure him up; to give him a voice, a motive, feelings, actions, variations, a presence that made him seem real - real enough, at any rate, to skew the investigation.

I don’t think the shifts in the RN from "we" to "I", from "Mr. Ramsey" to "John", and from formality to mocking familiarity were either planned or done by mistake. Patsy was an actor and she was improvising a monologue on paper just as she had once done aloud; and I do think there was unconscious purpose at work in it, as there is in all creativity. Did it create scattershot clues meant to point in contradictory directions? That was certainly the effect. Police couldn't zero in on or rule out any one person or group. Was the kidnapper/then killer someone who matched the aloofness of the opening sentences or the taunting vibe of the closing ones? Someone who wanted to strike at John's company or at John personally? Someone educated enough to write "attache'" with the accent or someone who couldn't spell "business" and "possession"? Someone blunt enough to threaten beheading or sneaky enough to misspell words on purpose? Someone bold enough to fake a kidnapping and murder JBR while the family slept or someone too indifferent to demand more than $118,000 from a multimillionaire (money that would have to be divided among the perps, don’t forget. If there were three of them, they wouldn’t even get $40,000 apiece.)? In addition to conjuring a kidnapper with the ransom note, Patsy at some level also meant to hand police a puzzle that couldn’t be solved.

Thanks for getting me thinking about this. I’m also rethinking whether the RN was written to fool John, but that’s for a separate post. God knows this one's long enough.
 
I posted this comment in reply to proust20 on the thread "JonBenet Ramsey Case: My Theory & Key Questions" and thought it might be useful here....


To your question [regarding the RN], Why immediately disregard the warnings? -- Some possibilities:

1. The parents didn't know JBR was dead and thought the RN was real but knew that kidnappers primarily want money and are unlikely to kill as long as there's hope of getting away with the ransom. From books and films, they believed that calling the police was the best course regardless of what the RN threatened.

2. Both parents knew the RN was fake but also knew they had to act as though it were real, so the same reasoning applied.

3. Only Patsy knew the RN was fake, and she called 911. John reportedly did not object.

4. Only John knew the RN was fake and told Patsy to call 911. Reportedly, she did not object.

5. Both parents knew there were no kidnappers and went ahead with the 911 call, but both were so distraught, exhausted, and distracted, then and in the ensuing hours, that they forgot to express fear for JBR's life, much as they forgot to show fear for BR's life and forgot to react when no call came from the kidnappers.

6. Whichever parent knew the RN was fake (or both parents, if both) wanted to involve police right away so that JBR's body would be found as soon as possible. Whatever had happened the night before, the desire to recover her body from the wine cellar and relieve the tension outweighed the risks and problems they'd face when JBR's death was discovered.

Here's what struck me as I made the list. In #1 (both parents thought the RN was real), and in #3 and #4 (only one parent knew the RN was fake), they would very likely have discussed whether to call the police, or at least have quickly agreed on it. Yet neither JR nor PR ever mentions any such exchange (or post phone call disagreement) in their accounts of what took place between the time PR claimed to have found the RN and the time she called 911 . Only in one case was there no need to decide what to do at 5:52 AM on December 26th - #2, if both parents knew the RN was fake - because they had already agreed in the middle of the night how to run the morning scenario.
 
Patsy and John liked movies…Patsy was a writer. She had worked in public relations and was alert to language and presentation. She knew perfectly well what a real ransom note was like!

I’d guess that most people don’t know what a real ransom note looks like/sounds like, and that ransom notes aren’t part of a general education in communications and/or PR.

I’m guessing the first thing that would come to mind is one of those letters-cut-out-of-newspapers jobs (not for people on this sub, of course :)) , which are mostly a Hollywood trope.

If pressed, and required to write a ransom note, even after all my Ramsey/true crime reading, all I really know is a) don’t cut letters out of magazines and b) 3 pages is too long.

This quote from Mark Twain Blaise Pascal always comes to mind when I think of the RN:
I think have made this [letter] longer than usual because I have not had time to make it shorter.

That said, I don’t think we actually disagree in substance.

I also have had the vague thought: what if the RN was actually written not night of, but at some point past in preparation for some screwing over of JR (ie, PR preparing to leave him; perhaps ‘the event’ would occur at Charlevoix.)

Something dreadful but unexpected happened Christmas night instead, changing plans, and the already written RN, intended for some other nefarious purpose, was hastily employed to help explain it.

*wild speculation
 

I’d guess that most people don’t know what a real ransom note looks like/sounds like, and that ransom notes aren’t part of a general education in communications and/or PR.

I’m guessing the first thing that would come to mind is one of those letters-cut-out-of-newspapers jobs (not for people on this sub, of course :)) , which are mostly a Hollywood trope.

If pressed, and required to write a ransom note, even after all my Ramsey/true crime reading, all I really know is a) don’t cut letters out of magazines and b) 3 pages is too long.

This quote from Mark Twain Blaise Pascal always comes to mind when I think of the RN:


That said, I don’t think we actually disagree in substance.

I also have had the vague thought: what if the RN was actually written not night of, but at some point past in preparation for some screwing over of JR (ie, PR preparing to leave him; perhaps ‘the event’ would occur at Charlevoix.)

Something dreadful but unexpected happened Christmas night instead, changing plans, and the already written RN, intended for some other nefarious purpose, was hastily employed to help explain it.

*wild speculation

You raise an interesting question. There were rumors at the time, and persisting, that there was strife in the marriage and possible infidelity. The main difficulty I see is that that theory requires a lot of explanation for why PR stayed with JR.

For the reasons cited, I'm holding out for Patsy's savvy about what a real ransom note looks like. Maybe milder terms would help? I'm confident Patsy knew that ransom notes are typically not long and rambling.

But - but - there is one factor that might possibly have influenced her to write a longer one.
* also wild speculation : )

The house in Charlevoix was located at 112 Belvedere Ave., about eight minutes from Castle Farms, a family recreation and fancy wedding venue featuring a mansion modeled on a Normandy castle, extensive gardens, a model railroad, a WWI museum, and various historic collections. Given PR's penchant for antiques and all things French, JR's interest in airplanes and the military, BR's interest in trains, and JBR’s love of flowers, it's fair to assume the Ramseys visited there..

The castle was the centerpiece of a state of the art dairy farm built in 1918 by one Albert Leob, who became one of the largest employers in the county; and, though the property no longer bears his name, it's still woven into the local history, in Leob Bay, Leob Creek, and Leob Road. Unfortunately, it’s also woven into national history because in 1924 his son, Richard, became the Leob in the infamous Leopold and Leob case. Of course, Castle Farms doesn't mention anything about its origins as Leob Farms, but it's the kind of lore you learn when you live in a place or visit there frequently.

There are a number of similarities between the Leopold and Leob case and the Ramsey case.

(If you believe both JR and PR were involved) both crimes were carried out by two people.

In L&L, they meant to kill Bobby Franks but first kidnapped him off the street, then murdered him in the car, hid the body, and sent his father a ransom note. Similarly with JBR, when the Rams showed the police the RN on the 26th, she was already dead, and her body concealed.

L&L’s original plan was to strangle Franks with a cord but, when he struggled, Leob battered him on the head with a wrapped chisel and then stuffed a rag into his throat. Franks could have died from the head injuries, and may have done. If he didn’t, he died from suffocation. JBR was struck a lethal blow to the head but died from asphyxiation, by strangulation by cord, before the earlier injury became fatal.

L&L planned to kill Franks together by looping the cord around his neck and pulling from opposite ends so that it couldn’t be determined which of them had killed him. We don’t know what the Rams may have planned, but in the end the Grand Jury couldn’t determine who had done what.

Franks’ body was found before L&L could collect the ransom. JBR’s body was found before the Rams could complete whatever kidnapping narrative they may have had in mind.

The RN helped police zero in on L&L because it was written in an educated style and had no grammar errors. Similar qualities in the JBR letter led Boulder police to suspect Patsy as the author.

Both RNs are unusually wordy and long; 2 pages for L&L, 3 for JBR.

Both are oddly formal and begin with a greeting (“Dear Sir,” “Mr. Ramsey”), and both have a closing and are signed (Like, who signs a ransom note?).

The texts of the letters follow a similar distinct outline.

Both letters say that the next communication will be by telephone at a certain time and both give detailed instructions for packaging the ransom money.

Both instruct the parents to pay in specific denominations/amounts.

The letters share similar phrases and some of the same words e.g., “carefully,” “follow instructions to the letter,” at present well and safe/ at this time….safe and unharmed.

Both letters switch between “I” and “we.”


No conclusions can be drawn from these similarities; coincidences happen. Still, they seem to me worth a look. The L&L letter and the Ramsey letter have much more in common than either does with, say, the Lindbergh RNs. Is there a connection? Did PR happen to read about the Leopold and Leob case one summer? When she had to write a ransom note, did she look up L&L in a book on hand about notorious cases?

There is one known connection. When JR married Jan Rousseaux in 2016, the wedding was held at…Castle Farms. Okay - nearby, over 90 years since L&L, 20 years since JBR’s murder, maybe with some faded happy memories, but still – What sort of person has a daughter who is reportedly kidnapped and then found murdered in one of the country’s most controversial cases ever, in which he remains a suspect, and, out of all possible locations, remarries in the home of a killer in another of the country’s most infamous kidnap-murder cases? Too creepy for words. 😬
 

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