JonBenet Ramsey Documentary

Laura Mountford

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The best documentary I have seen on this case is on YouTube called 'The Case of: JonBenet Ramsey' and is in 2 parts totalling nearly 3 hours altogether from 2016. They show reconstructions of the crime scenes and murder weapon and they make it look very likely, as I have always believed, that Burke could have been the killer and probably was. They also disprove an intruder coming in from the basement window. It's a fascinating watch!
Just thought you all might like to know and if you watch it for yourself what your thoughts are on it.
Laura
 
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Thank you for this. Good find. I will watch. I also thought Burke did it.
I've just re-watched it again and it really is a thorough documentary. From the pineapple, DNA on her knickers, the ransom note, murder weapon and statement analysis, intruder theory etc it covers EVERYTHING and is very easy to understand too.
 
I thought it was disturbing that a very young child was being blamed for a murder with no proof and that excerpts of his private interview with a mental health professional were made public without his consent.
 
I thought it was disturbing that a very young child was being blamed for a murder with no proof and that excerpts of his private interview with a mental health professional were made public without his consent.
There's plenty of proof in that documentary. More so than proof of an intruder or John or Patsy doing it. It doesn't matter how young he was in the interview. If he's old enough to potentially commit a violent crime then they have a right to interview and assess him and when such a horrific case has gone cold I believe investigators have every right to show the world so long as they have a disclaimer stating that they are not directly accusing (which they did at the end of the documentary). Burke gave that Dr. Phil interview in 2016 and was paid for it, thinking it would help clear his name and allowed clips to be shown from his police interviews so obviously wasn't too bothered about it when money was being thrown his way. However that plan backfired as his Dr Phil interview was so creepy and unsettling that it probably made people who thought he was innocent before, now start to believe he may have done it. The awkward fidgeting, the creepy smile (most nervous smiles don't stay put the whole time, they quiver and slip in and out but his was fixed) and the lack of emotion or empathy shown were chilling.
 
Have you watched it? Burke was known for being violent to JonBenet as he had hit her before with a golf club. A child of his age and stature was re-enacted with the supposed murder weapon that could have caused the death and it matched up almost perfectly in the damaged 'skull'. He contradicted himself in his original interviews saying he was fast asleep and over selling the fact he doesn't hear things while sleeping but then later says he was trying to get to sleep when it happened. His voice in the background of the 911 call asking what they had found but the parents lying and saying he was asleep upstairs when they found her and dialled 911... The way he got incredibly nervous when they showed him the picture of the pineapple on the counter and when asked such as simple question as what do you think this is, did not want to say the word pineapple even though he had previously been talking openly about liking pineapple until they showed him a crime scene photograph... Just a few there. They may not be strong enough proof to stand up in court but they are just as much proof of not more than a lot of theories and evidence suggested.
 
I thought it was disturbing that a very young child was being blamed for a murder with no proof and that excerpts of his private interview with a mental health professional were made public without his consent.

Burke's interviews weren't private counseling sessions, but rather he was interviewed as part of a police investigation by a psychologist. This is very common when dealing with children either as witnesses or as suspects. Also, since a third party was watching the interviews, privacy rights are quite different.

I think it's important to stress a few things about the Burke Ramsey theory:
  • At no time has anyone asserted that Burke would have killed JonBenet purposefully. He was too young to form intent, first of all. Also, Burke had a history of reflexively hitting JonBenet. He had previously hit her in the face with a golf club when she was annoying him while playing outside. The idea of him hitting her with a flashlight, as the documentary theorizes, wouldn't be outside of his known behavior.
  • An attorney from Colorado sat down with Laura Richards and Jim Clemente to help them parse out the Grand Jury's indictment of John and Patsy. The couple were each indicted on two counts: 1. "unreasonably placed in a situation which posed a threat of injury to the child's life or health, which resulted in the death of JonBenet Ramsey," and 2. "knowing the person being assisted has committed and was suspected of the crime of murder in the first degree and child abuse resulting in death." The second indictment is the most interesting. If the Grand Jury thought that John had assisted Patsy or Patsy assisted John, there would be a first degree murder indictment included for one or both of them. However, there's no one that has been indicted for JonBenet's murder. The attorney explains that the most likely explanation to this is the person who the couple assisted couldn't be indicted, either due to death or due to the fact that Colorado doesn't allow a child younger than 10 to be indicted for a crime. Burke Ramsey was nine when JonBenet was killed. A juror later was interviewed for 20/20 and stated that the Grand Jury knew who killed JonBenet and that they stood by their indictment.
  • The actual interviews with Burke showed two things that stuck out to me. First, Burke knew exactly what had happened to his sister, despite the fact that the Ramseys always said they hadn't given him details at that age. Second, he dodged questions that connected him to the pineapple, including his inability to say he knew what pineapple was when showed a picture from the scene. The bowl of pineapple had two sets of fingerprints on it: Burke's and Patsy's.
  • Finally, it's important to understand that there was evidence in Burke's behavior that he was troubled. Burke was known to "play" with his own excrement and, in fact, he had smeared his feces on a number of JonBenet's gifts and toys. Scatiola, the medical term for this type of play, is seen in children who have high levels of anxiety and trauma, especially in cases of sexual abuse. From this I gather that there's a likelihood that Burke was a victim, himself. This may explain the amount of anger he displayed and also his need for control.
I recommend everyone to watch the documentary. Other points in the film were around the DNA evidence that Mary Lacy so famously used to exclude the Ramseys as suspects and an interview with the 911 dispatcher who took Patsy's call that morning. Even if someone doesn't buy in to the Burke Ramsey theory, there are objective interpretations of the evidence by some of the most skilled detectives and medical examiners in the United States. There was no incentive for the team to come to a certain conclusion over any other, however, the evidence definitely led them to one clear direction.
 
Have you watched it?

Yes but it was a while ago and I don't remember a lot of it.

Burke was known for being violent to JonBenet as he had hit her before with a golf club.

From Det. Steve Thomas book:

"In the summer of 1994 JonBenet was accidentally hit on the left cheek by a golf club, swung by her brother Burke, and her mother rushed the child to see a plastic surgeon, who thought Patsy was overreacting."

A child of his age and stature was re-enacted with the supposed murder weapon that could have caused the death and it matched up almost perfectly in the damaged 'skull'.

They could have done it dozens of times to get it right. Plus, the skull isn't real bone and a pig skin is not human skin. Dead skin does not respond and move the same way as living, pliable skin on a living human skull. I'm not convinced he could have hit her hard enough to open her skull that way with such a heavy object and not lacerated the skin on a real, live human.

His voice in the background of the 911 call asking what they had found but the parents lying and saying he was asleep upstairs when they found her and dialled 911.

If BDI, this means a nine year old child is asking rhetorical questions at the crack of dawn.

The way he got incredibly nervous when they showed him the picture of the pineapple on the counter and when asked such as simple question as what do you think this is, did not want to say the word pineapple even though he had previously been talking openly about liking pineapple until they showed him a crime scene photograph

The picture of the pineapple was in black and white. He struggled to recognize what it was.
 
@awillis0513

1. The golf club incident happened when JonBenet was walking behind Burke as he took a backswing. He was 7 at the time.

2. John and Patsy each had nine counts against them. The only counts made public were IV (a) and VII. So, whatever count I was, it's going to be more serious than child abuse and accessory to first degree murder.

The first degree murder mentioned eliminates Burke.

As has been pointed out, he could not have been charged with murder.

There is no mention in the indictment of a 3rd party.

The Grand Jury believed that either John or Patsy committed the murder and the other one helped cover it up. Both parents were charged with the same thing. One of the jurors himself admitted he didn't know which particular person committed the murder. We know the only fiber evidence found on JBR was from JR and PR.

3. Burke 1st described a knife attack which we all know didn't happen.

He struggled to recognize a grainy black-and-white picture of a bowl of pineapple.

And yes, Patsy's prints are on the bowl, a detail that goes unrecognized most of the time.

Burke was known to "play" with his own excrement and, in fact, he had smeared his feces on a number of JonBenet's gifts and toys.

Can you source this?

There was no incentive for the team to come to a certain conclusion over any other, however, the evidence definitely led them to one clear direction.

The documentary was based on Jim Kolar's book which is BDI. Kolar wasn't present at the crime scene and didn't work the case.

The Burke theory is the only theory of the case that hasn't been beaten over the world's head yet. Blaming a little kid is the only way to drum up interest and ratings at this late stage in the game.
 
1. The golf club incident happened when JonBenet was walking behind Burke as he took a backswing. He was 7 at the time.

According to Ramsey family friend and photographer, Judy Phillips, Patsy said that Burke hit JonBenet after "he lost his temper." She states this on camera for the documentary.

2. John and Patsy each had nine counts against them. The only counts made public were IV (a) and VII. So, whatever count I was, it's going to be more serious than child abuse and accessory to first degree murder. The first degree murder mentioned eliminates Burke. As has been pointed out, he could not have been charged with murder. There is no mention in the indictment of a 3rd party. The Grand Jury believed that either John or Patsy committed the murder and the other one helped cover it up. Both parents were charged with the same thing. One of the jurors himself admitted he didn't know which particular person committed the murder. We know the only fiber evidence found on JBR was from JR and PR.

John and Patsy were up for nine different counts, however, they were only indicted on the two counts as I quoted. The indictments have been made public since 2013 as part of a Freedom of Information Act request. The Court required the state to release the full documents and those are the only two counts that the couple was indicted on. The attorney in the documentary explains this at length, as well as a situation where two people can be indicted as assisting in a murder without someone being indicted for the murder itself. I implore you to rewatch the documentary.

Source: JonBenét Ramsey grand jury indictment accused parents of child abuse resulting in death – The Denver Post

3. Burke 1st described a knife attack which we all know didn't happen. He struggled to recognize a grainy black-and-white picture of a bowl of pineapple. And yes, Patsy's prints are on the bowl, a detail that goes unrecognized most of the time.

Burke Ramsey clearly knew what was in the bowl in that picture. I have seen that photo. It's not grainy to me, and I have serious vision issues. Patsy's prints were on the bowl, however, the tiny bowl was served with a giant spoon accompanied by tea that was served in a water glass rather than a mug or tea cup. Patsy Ramsey would never have served a snack in that way, but a child making their own snack may have.

Can you source this?

This article mentions it, as well as others. Linda Hoffman-Pugh and investigative notes have backed up this assertion up. Steve Thomas, James Kolar, and notes from the initial investigation in 1997. I can't find the exact investigation note, however, this has been mentioned by a number of law enforcement agents and those familiar with the

Source: ‘The Case of: JonBenet Ramsey’: Everything We Learned – Rolling Stone

The documentary was based on Jim Kolar's book which is BDI. Kolar wasn't present at the crime scene and didn't work the case.

Jim Clemente and Laura Richards have spoken about the process of their investigation, which started as a series of episodes for their podcast, "Real Crime Profile." The episodes are not currently available in the iTunes store due to the lawsuit from Burke Ramsey, however, they say in them at length that they didn't start the investigation with any theory in mind. James Kolar was in the CBS Special, but Clemente and Richards, both of whom being extremely experienced in law enforcement, started merely looking at the evidence with other experts.

Also, James Kolar DID work the case. He was the chief investigator for the prosecution's office and was tasked to take over the investigation in 2005 and 2006 given the Boulder Police Department's lack of progress.

The Burke theory is the only theory of the case that hasn't been beaten over the world's head yet. Blaming a little kid is the only way to drum up interest and ratings at this late stage in the game.

Children are entirely capable of murder. Mary Bell at 11 strangled a three-year-old and a four-year-old. Jon Venables and Robert Thompson, both 10, abducted and tortured two-year-old James Patrick Bulger, a crime which also had a sexual element. Carl Newton Mahan at the ripe age of six shot a nine-year-old neighbor. Dedrick Darnell Owens, also a six-year-old, took a gun to school in 2000 and shot another student to death in front of a teacher saying he didn't like her. Perhaps the most revealing, an unnamed six-year-old from Rochester, New York beat his three-year-old brother to death in 2010. I found many other cases of children killing other children. The idea that a nine-year-old is incapable of killing their sibling is simply naive and contrary to evidence seen through our history.

Again, no one is saying this was a purposeful act. But the evidence definitely leads in one direction.
 
@awillis0513

1. The golf club incident happened when JonBenet was walking behind Burke as he took a backswing. He was 7 at the time.

2. John and Patsy each had nine counts against them. The only counts made public were IV (a) and VII. So, whatever count I was, it's going to be more serious than child abuse and accessory to first degree murder.

The first degree murder mentioned eliminates Burke.

As has been pointed out, he could not have been charged with murder.

There is no mention in the indictment of a 3rd party.

The Grand Jury believed that either John or Patsy committed the murder and the other one helped cover it up. Both parents were charged with the same thing. One of the jurors himself admitted he didn't know which particular person committed the murder. We know the only fiber evidence found on JBR was from JR and PR.

3. Burke 1st described a knife attack which we all know didn't happen.

He struggled to recognize a grainy black-and-white picture of a bowl of pineapple.

And yes, Patsy's prints are on the bowl, a detail that goes unrecognized most of the time.



Can you source this?



The documentary was based on Jim Kolar's book which is BDI. Kolar wasn't present at the crime scene and didn't work the case.

The Burke theory is the only theory of the case that hasn't been beaten over the world's head yet. Blaming a little kid is the only way to drum up interest and ratings at this late stage in the game.
Why are you so adamant Burke didn't do it? I have said to others that JR or PR may also be likely suspects but I feel Burke is more of a suspect yet you seem to be determined that it wasn't him. Is there a reason why you don't want it to have been him so badly?
 
1. The golf club incident happened when JonBenet was walking behind Burke as he took a backswing. He was 7 at the time.

According to Ramsey family friend and photographer, Judy Phillips, Patsy said that Burke hit JonBenet after "he lost his temper." She states this on camera for the documentary.

2. John and Patsy each had nine counts against them. The only counts made public were IV (a) and VII. So, whatever count I was, it's going to be more serious than child abuse and accessory to first degree murder. The first degree murder mentioned eliminates Burke. As has been pointed out, he could not have been charged with murder. There is no mention in the indictment of a 3rd party. The Grand Jury believed that either John or Patsy committed the murder and the other one helped cover it up. Both parents were charged with the same thing. One of the jurors himself admitted he didn't know which particular person committed the murder. We know the only fiber evidence found on JBR was from JR and PR.

John and Patsy were up for nine different counts, however, they were only indicted on the two counts as I quoted. The indictments have been made public since 2013 as part of a Freedom of Information Act request. The Court required the state to release the full documents and those are the only two counts that the couple was indicted on. The attorney in the documentary explains this at length, as well as a situation where two people can be indicted as assisting in a murder without someone being indicted for the murder itself. I implore you to rewatch the documentary.

Source: JonBenét Ramsey grand jury indictment accused parents of child abuse resulting in death – The Denver Post

3. Burke 1st described a knife attack which we all know didn't happen. He struggled to recognize a grainy black-and-white picture of a bowl of pineapple. And yes, Patsy's prints are on the bowl, a detail that goes unrecognized most of the time.

Burke Ramsey clearly knew what was in the bowl in that picture. I have seen that photo. It's not grainy to me, and I have serious vision issues. Patsy's prints were on the bowl, however, the tiny bowl was served with a giant spoon accompanied by tea that was served in a water glass rather than a mug or tea cup. Patsy Ramsey would never have served a snack in that way, but a child making their own snack may have.

Can you source this?

This article mentions it, as well as others. Linda Hoffman-Pugh and investigative notes have backed up this assertion up. Steve Thomas, James Kolar, and notes from the initial investigation in 1997. I can't find the exact investigation note, however, this has been mentioned by a number of law enforcement agents and those familiar with the

Source: ‘The Case of: JonBenet Ramsey’: Everything We Learned – Rolling Stone

The documentary was based on Jim Kolar's book which is BDI. Kolar wasn't present at the crime scene and didn't work the case.

Jim Clemente and Laura Richards have spoken about the process of their investigation, which started as a series of episodes for their podcast, "Real Crime Profile." The episodes are not currently available in the iTunes store due to the lawsuit from Burke Ramsey, however, they say in them at length that they didn't start the investigation with any theory in mind. James Kolar was in the CBS Special, but Clemente and Richards, both of whom being extremely experienced in law enforcement, started merely looking at the evidence with other experts.

Also, James Kolar DID work the case. He was the chief investigator for the prosecution's office and was tasked to take over the investigation in 2005 and 2006 given the Boulder Police Department's lack of progress.

The Burke theory is the only theory of the case that hasn't been beaten over the world's head yet. Blaming a little kid is the only way to drum up interest and ratings at this late stage in the game.

Children are entirely capable of murder. Mary Bell at 11 strangled a three-year-old and a four-year-old. Jon Venables and Robert Thompson, both 10, abducted and tortured two-year-old James Patrick Bulger, a crime which also had a sexual element. Carl Newton Mahan at the ripe age of six shot a nine-year-old neighbor. Dedrick Darnell Owens, also a six-year-old, took a gun to school in 2000 and shot another student to death in front of a teacher saying he didn't like her. Perhaps the most revealing, an unnamed six-year-old from Rochester, New York beat his three-year-old brother to death in 2010. I found many other cases of children killing other children. The idea that a nine-year-old is incapable of killing their sibling is simply naive and contrary to evidence seen through our history.

Again, no one is saying this was a purposeful act. But the evidence definitely leads in one direction.
I want to shake your hand.
You have phrased this all much better than I did but you have made every valid point that I also believe.
 
According to Ramsey family friend and photographer, Judy Phillips, Patsy said that Burke hit JonBenet after "he lost his temper." She states this on camera for the documentary.

Judith Phillips wasn't present when the incident occurred.

John and Patsy were up for nine different counts, however, they were only indicted on the two counts as I quoted. The indictments have been made public since 2013 as part of a Freedom of Information Act request. The Court required the state to release the full documents and those are the only two counts that the couple was indicted on. The attorney in the documentary explains this at length, as well as a situation where two people can be indicted as assisting in a murder without someone being indicted for the murder itself. I implore you to rewatch the documentary.

The charge was for covering up first degree murder. Burke was a minor who could not have been charged with first degree murder. The charges were against the parents. The evidence (fibers) recovered from the crime scene belonged to the parents.

COUNT VII On or about December 25, and December 26, 1996 in Boulder County, Colorado, John Bennett Ramsey (alternately, Patricia Paugh Ramsey) did unlawfully, knowingly and feloniously render assistance to a person, with intent to hinder, delay and prevent the discovery, detention, apprehension, prosecution, conviction and punishment of such person for the commission of a crime, knowing the person being assisted has committed and was suspected of the crime of Murder in the First Degree and Child Abuse Resulting in Death.

Patsy rendered assistance to John and John rendered assistance to Patsy.

Burke Ramsey clearly knew what was in the bowl in that picture. I have seen that photo. It's not grainy to me, and I have serious vision issues. Patsy's prints were on the bowl, however, the tiny bowl was served with a giant spoon accompanied by tea that was served in a water glass rather than a mug or tea cup. Patsy Ramsey would never have served a snack in that way, but a child making their own snack may have.

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82. On December 26, 1996, outside the presence of his parents and unknown to them, Burke was interviewed by Boulder PD Detective Fred Patterson who concluded that Burke did not have any idea or knowledge about what had happened to his sister.

http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w...-CBS-Complaint-with-Exhibits-reduced-size.pdf

In '98 Patsy goes on and on about how weird it is to put a tea bag in a cup (or a glass) and how she can't remember ever doing such a thing.

She also denies drinking hot tea, but thanks to Tom Trujillo pointing out that she was drinking tea in her '97 interview, we know that wasn't true.

This article mentions it, as well as others. Linda Hoffman-Pugh and investigative notes have backed up this assertion up. Steve Thomas, James Kolar, and notes from the initial investigation in 1997. I can't find the exact investigation note, however, this has been mentioned by a number of law enforcement agents and those familiar with the

The housekeeper stated during an interview that Burke's fecal smearing occurred 3 years prior to the homicide when his mother was first diagnosed with cancer.

The report of contents itemized taken from the Ramsey home on the night of the homicide does not mention smeared feces.

Jim Clemente and Laura Richards have spoken about the process of their investigation, which started as a series of episodes for their podcast, "Real Crime Profile." The episodes are not currently available in the iTunes store due to the lawsuit from Burke Ramsey, however, they say in them at length that they didn't start the investigation with any theory in mind. James Kolar was in the CBS Special, but Clemente and Richards, both of whom being extremely experienced in law enforcement, started merely looking at the evidence with other experts.

Also, James Kolar DID work the case. He was the chief investigator for the prosecution's office and was tasked to take over the investigation in 2005 and 2006 given the Boulder Police Department's lack of progress.


The homicide occurred in 1996.

In a radio interview, Kolar revealed that he thought John slept through the night. That left Patsy and Burke. Though there is physical evidence implicating Patsy, Kolar did not consider her capable of striking the head blow: "I just couldn't reconcile the fact that Patsy was, by all accounts, a loving and doting mother, and I had difficulty envisioning her ever brutalizing either of her children." So that left Burke who must now be implicated because he's the only one left.

CBS hyped it as them solving the case with some fine print at the end that it was just a theory and Spitz didn't actually say it was just an opinion. Like CBS, he presented it as if he had cracked the case. They made a ton of money doing this.

Children are entirely capable of murder. Mary Bell at 11 strangled a three-year-old and a four-year-old. Jon Venables and Robert Thompson, both 10, abducted and tortured two-year-old James Patrick Bulger, a crime which also had a sexual element. Carl Newton Mahan at the ripe age of six shot a nine-year-old neighbor. Dedrick Darnell Owens, also a six-year-old, took a gun to school in 2000 and shot another student to death in front of a teacher saying he didn't like her. Perhaps the most revealing, an unnamed six-year-old from Rochester, New York beat his three-year-old brother to death in 2010. I found many other cases of children killing other children. The idea that a nine-year-old is incapable of killing their sibling is simply naive and contrary to evidence seen through our history.

Statistics from the U.S. Department of Justice: https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/ojjdp/193411.pdf (page 3) in 1997, there were less than ten homicides by children 10 and under.

Sibling killings are the least common type of domestic homicide (FBI stats) : Expanded Homicide Data

Parents kill their children all the time.

Why are you so adamant Burke didn't do it?

Patsy's sweater-jacket fibers were found in direct association with elements of the crime.

John's shirt was identified as the source of fibers inside the panty crotch of the panties JonBenet was wearing.

Zero evidence from BR was recovered from JBR.

Wendy Murphy wrote this article after Lacy cleared the Ramseys. This section references the black fibers found in JonBenet's panties:

"Police told John Ramsey they found black wool sweater fibers inside the underpants JonBenet was wearing when her body was found, fibers that matched the Israeli wool sweater John was wearing on the night in question. Ramsey had no explanation for how the fibers could have gotten there, so he just yelled and filibustered – a common tactic when the suspect doesn’t want to, or can’t, answer a particular question. If the facts were different, he might have said the sweater fibers got there through laundering. But the sweater was never washed – it was wool – and the underpants were three sizes too big and had never been worn before."

Read more: WENDY MURPHY: AND JUSTICE FOR SOME: The district attorney should apologize to JonBenet, not to her parents

John staged a basement while his six year old daughter's broken body was feet away and another child was in the house. I think he should be brought to justice.
 
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Judith Phillips wasn't present when the incident occurred.

What reason would she have to lie? There is no benefit to her to lie about Burke's temper, however, the Ramseys all have a benefit in portraying the incident as a innocent accident. It's the legal and psychological principle of "Cui bono," or "Who benefits?" There's no benefit for Ms. Phillips to make a statement that would possibly incriminate a child if it weren't true. If you think it would be for money then she could get money merely by selling the photos and wouldn't have to become involved with the investigation, itself.

The charge was for covering up first degree murder. Burke was a minor who could not have been charged with first degree murder. The charges were against the parents. The evidence (fibers) recovered from the crime scene belonged to the parents.

As far as fiber evidence goes, the Supreme Court and many state courts have found the evidence to be flawed. The FBI, themselves, conducted a review of hair and fiber cases from before 2000 and found that 90% of the conclusions about the evidence were flawed. Now, on modern evidence collection forms, an important question is asked around trace evidence which reads: "Have the suspect(s) and victim(s) lived at the same residence or shared a common environment?" If the answer is yes, the evidence is given more scrutiny.

Source: Flawed FBI hair, fiber analysis taint Wisconsin convictions

COUNT VII On or about December 25, and December 26, 1996 in Boulder County, Colorado, John Bennett Ramsey (alternately, Patricia Paugh Ramsey) did unlawfully, knowingly and feloniously render assistance to a person, with intent to hinder, delay and prevent the discovery, detention, apprehension, prosecution, conviction and punishment of such person for the commission of a crime, knowing the person being assisted has committed and was suspected of the crime of Murder in the First Degree and Child Abuse Resulting in Death.

Patsy rendered assistance to John and John rendered assistance to Patsy.

Here is the direct transcript between Jim Clemente, Laura Richards, and Colorado legal expert Lisa Polansky:

RICHARDS: So on or between December 25 and December 26, 1996, John Bennet Ramsey did unlawfully, knowingly, recklessly and feloniously commit a child to be unreasonably placed in a situation which posed a threat of injury to the child’s life or health which resulted in the death of JonBenét Ramsey. The other count was John Bennet Ramsey did unlawfully, knowingly and feloniously render assistance to a person with intent to hinder, delay and prevent the discovery, detention, apprehension, prosecution, conviction and punishment of such a person knowing the person being assisted has committed and was suspected of the crime of Murder in the First Degree and Child Abuse Resulting in Death.
CLEMENTE: Does that mean that they’re charging John with assisting Patsy if she did it and they’re charging Patsy with assisting John if he did it?
LISA POLANSKY (“LISA”): It’s legally possible in the state of Colorado for John to be assisting Patsy, Patsy to be assisting John.
CLEMENTE: Wouldn’t they both then also be charged with the underlying crime, as opposed to just—
LISA: Yes. Normally, if they do an accessory charge which here is generally after the fact, it’s usually somebody else. My opinion would be that there’s a third person.
CLEMENTE: The only third person that’s left is Burke Ramsey.


Source: http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w...CBS-Complaint-with-Exhibits-reduced-size.pdf; also, "The Case of JonBenet Ramsey" Hour Two

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82. On December 26, 1996, outside the presence of his parents and unknown to them, Burke was interviewed by Boulder PD Detective Fred Patterson who concluded that Burke did not have any idea or knowledge about what had happened to his sister.


Other members of law enforcement, including Jim Clemente, Laura Richards, and James Molar have interpreted Burke's interviews quite differently. The Boulder Police Department admitted at the first anniversary of JonBenet's death that investigators previously spoke with Burke only during a 'preliminary interview' on the day JonBenet's body was found." There was not a full and comprehensive interview that day, therefore, a detective really couldn't conclude that Burke didn't know what happened to his sister. (There's many reasons why the case was transferred to different investigators and it wasn't because the original detectives were doing a great job.) A later videotaped interview shows he did know and when he said she was stabbed, he actually made a motion that would be more common with a bludgeoning. This was noted by Clemente and Richards.

In '98 Patsy goes on and on about how weird it is to put a tea bag in a cup (or a glass) and how she can't remember ever doing such a thing. She also denies drinking hot tea, but thanks to Tom Trujillo pointing out that she was drinking tea in her '97 interview, we know that wasn't true.

It is weird to put a tea bag in a glass and regardless of whether or not Patsy drank tea, she wouldn't prepare tea like that. We have to remember who Patsy Ramsey was at her core: she was a pageant queen from the South that was still very much identifying herself that way despite being decades removed from that era. As a Miss West Virginia winner, she wasn't just expected to know how to wear a sash and crown. There were a number of etiquette classes taught to contestants that include proper table setting. If this were a random mother, sure, maybe in a hurry she put hot tea in a glass. But a former Miss West Virginia? Nope, that's not how she's made.

The housekeeper stated during an interview that Burke's fecal smearing occurred 3 years prior to the homicide when his mother was first diagnosed with cancer. The report of contents itemized taken from the Ramsey home on the night of the homicide does not mention smeared feces.

The itemized contents do not mention it, however, there are investigative reports which are not currently public that have been seen by law enforcement officers. James Kolar mentions it in his book,

"I had reviewed an investigator’s report that documented a 1997 interview with former Ramsey nanny – housekeeper Geraldine Vodicka, who stated that Burke had smeared feces on the walls of a bathroom during his mother’s first bout with cancer. She told investigators that Nedra Paugh, who was visiting the Ramsey home at the time, had directed her to clean up the mess.

"There were other police reports in the files that documented what I thought could be viewed as related behavior. CSIs had written about finding a pair of pajama bottoms in JonBenét’s bedroom that contained fecal material. They were too big for her and were thought to belong to Burke.

"Additionally, a box of candy located in her bedroom had also been observed to be smeared with feces. Both of these discoveries had been made during the processing of the crime scene during the execution of search warrants following the discovery of JonBenét’s body."

Other members of law enforcement that back up that report are Jim Clemente, Laura Richards, Steve Beckner, and Steve Thomas.

The homicide occurred in 1996.

I'm fully aware of when the homicide occurred. I'm also fully aware that there's a reason James Kolar was brought into the investigation in 2005 and 2006: simply put, the team who were immediately on the case had allowed the scene to become compromised, they were running into investigative road blocks, and they lacked experience working homicide cases. Their errors have been well reported.

Source: A Look Inside the Mistakes in JonBenet Ramsey Investigation

In a radio interview, Kolar revealed that he thought John slept through the night. That left Patsy and Burke. Though there is physical evidence implicating Patsy, Kolar did not consider her capable of striking the head blow: "I just couldn't reconcile the fact that Patsy was, by all accounts, a loving and doting mother, and I had difficulty envisioning her ever brutalizing either of her children." So that left Burke who must now be implicated because he's the only one left.

CBS hyped it as them solving the case with some fine print at the end that it was just a theory and Spitz didn't actually say it was just an opinion. Like CBS, he presented it as if he had cracked the case. They made a ton of money doing this.

Sure, CBS made a lot of money. However, every other JonBenet Ramsey special that aired in 2016 around the anniversary made a lot of money and had record audience levels, including NBC, A&E, and ID's specials. The other specials didn't make the same assertions and they still made money. CBS and the experts didn't have to say that Burke was responsible to make money. However, CBS wasn't so convinced they would make a ton of money off of the special, evidenced by the special being scaled back to two episodes from the original three. CBS was also completely aware of how litigious the Ramseys have historically been and factored in the possibility of a lawsuit. Their attorneys are not dumb. They clearly felt the evidence provided was enough to make it worth airing. If it was mere speculation that couldn't be legally backed-up, they wouldn't have aired it.

Source: Welcome | TheWrap

Statistics from the U.S. Department of Justice: https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/ojjdp/193411.pdf (page 3) in 1997, there were less than ten homicides by children 10 and under. Sibling killings are the least common type of domestic homicide (FBI stats) : Expanded Homicide Data. Parents kill their children all the time.

Using statistics to determine who in a residence definitely committed a crime is extremely problematic for obvious reasons. Men are also far more likely to kill than women, however, it would be faulty to entirely rule out Patsy Ramsey based on that statistic. That logic has been problematic in recent history in the case of Anthony Michael Sanders. The father was found guilty of killing his two-year-old daughter. However, his seven-year-old son, who was five at the time of the homicide, admitted to smothering the girl. Statistics would say that the father was guilty, but reality says differently. We also know that children are most likely to be killed by someone they have a relationship with, however, we also know that strangers do kill children, as well, such as in the case of Jessica Ridgeway. Can statistics be a guide? Sure, but only to the extent that they help police prioritize interviews and where to gather evidence. It should never be used as a basis for conviction or acquittal. It's simply not enough. The FBI has said, itself, that their data can lead to crimes and suspects being overlooked due to their statistical unlikelihood and that while a type of crime may happen less, it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Source: A father was cleared of killing his toddler — after his 7-year-old son confessed https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/aboutucrmain.pdf

Patsy's sweater-jacket fibers were found in direct association with elements of the crime. John's shirt was identified as the source of fibers inside the panty crotch of the panties JonBenet was wearing. Zero evidence from BR was recovered from JBR.

See my reply above regarding fiber evidence. Given that FBI has said that 90% of cases with trace evidence analyzed from this era were faulty and the Ramseys all lived in the same home, I don't give it much merit. Neither would the Supreme Court.

John staged a basement while his six year old daughter's broken body was feet away and another child was in the house. I think he should be brought to justice.

I agree, however, the Colorado statute of limitations for the crimes he was indicted for have long run out. Obviously, Patsy is dead and the counts she was indicted on also had the same time limitations for prosecution. There's no legal remedy to this crime left. There is seemingly no one still alive that can be charged with JonBenet's murder.
 
As far as fiber evidence goes, the Supreme Court and many state courts have found the evidence to be flawed.

It made more of an impression on me than poop and pics of pineapple.

Here is the direct transcript between Jim Clemente, Laura Richards, and Colorado legal expert Lisa Polansky:

Lisa: Yes. Normally, if they do an accessory charge which here is generally after the fact, it's usually somebody else. My opinion would be that there's a third person. (BBM)

A later videotaped interview shows he did know and when he said she was stabbed, he actually made a motion that would be more common with a bludgeoning.

He sliced the air, making a slashing motion.

"There were other police reports in the files that documented what I thought could be viewed as related behavior. CSIs had written about finding a pair of pajama bottoms in JonBenét’s bedroom that contained fecal material. They were too big for her and were thought to belong to Burke.

"Additionally, a box of candy located in her bedroom had also been observed to be smeared with feces. Both of these discoveries had been made during the processing of the crime scene during the execution of search warrants following the discovery of JonBenét’s body."


Chocolate does melt and smear. It's not shocking that there would be brown smears on a candy box.

If they did find evidence of a small amount of feces on the box I might suggest JB had used the toilet, wiped herself poorly, not washed her hands and touched the box.

Either way, CSIs didn't collect anything with fecal smears except JonBenet's underpants and that was all residual post-wash staining.

According to one of their nannies, JonBenet had worn Burke's hand-me-downs before. Just because they were too big for her doesn't mean she couldn't have worn them and Kolar doesn't clarify what is meant by fecal material. It could range from stains from not wiping well to entire stools.

I'm also fully aware that there's a reason James Kolar was brought into the investigation in 2005 and 2006:

The homicide occurred in 1996. The detectives who were present at the crime scene had moved on by then.

James Kolar was briefly employed by the Boulder District Attorney’s Office from 2004 to the Spring of 2006. He self-published his book.

The lead investigator on the case was Mark Beckner. In a news conference in the spring of 1998, then-Chief Beckner said Burke was not a suspect.

CBS was also completely aware of how litigious the Ramseys have historically been and factored in the possibility of a lawsuit. Their attorneys are not dumb. They clearly felt the evidence provided was enough to make it worth airing. If it was mere speculation that couldn't be legally backed-up, they wouldn't have aired it.

Its worth it to CBS. The amount they will have to pay is unlikely to eclipse the amount of revenue pulled in during the series. Make 20 million (an example) in ad revenue and only have to pay Burke 1 or 2 mil. Not a bad profit margin when it comes to accusing a child of murder just to make a buck.

Using statistics to determine who in a residence definitely committed a crime is extremely problematic for obvious reasons.


I posted those stats in response to the detailed list upthread of the names of children who had committed homicides.

There is seemingly no one still alive that can be charged with JonBenet's murder.

There is if evidence implicating John is uncovered. There is no statute of limitations on murder.
 
It made more of an impression on me than poop and pics of pineapple.

Again, the analysis of fiber evidence from that era was faulty 90% of the time. 90%! You can choose to say it’s important, but to do so is ignoring what the FBI has said about it and that the evidence has less merit when the suspect lives with the victim.

Lisa: Yes. Normally, if they do an accessory charge which here is generally after the fact, it's usually somebody else. My opinion would be that there's a third person.

Yes, her educated, experienced, expert opinion.

He sliced the air, making a slashing motion.

No matter how you interpret it, Jim Clemente said this about that footage: “That’s a physical demonstration. There’s no appropriate emotion at all that this has happened to his sister.” Clemente formerly trained law enforcement and psychologists on how to interview children and how to interpret those interviews. Also, I rewatched that interview and he said “A knife...or a hammer.” He also clearly describes how she was taken to the basement. Again, educated, experienced experts say this is not normal and is a red flag.

Chocolate does melt and smear. It's not shocking that there would be brown smears on a candy box.

I used to be a financial advisor in a retail bank. A bank client once used the bathroom and had spread her feces on the wall. (She had a severe disability and we later learned from family that she did this during times of stress or anger.). It wasn’t found until it had dried. Let’s be clear, the odor remains. Also, crime scene analysts,no matter how bad they are, would no the difference between feces and chocolate. In fact, most people can tell the difference between feces and chocolate.

If they did find evidence of a small amount of feces on the box I might suggest JB had used the toilet, wiped herself poorly, not washed her hands and touched the box.

Either way, CSIs didn't collect anything with fecal smears except JonBenet's underpants and that was all residual post-wash staining
.

Again, the feces has been said by reputable and experienced investigators to be Burke’s and it has been referred to by a number of investigators. You have not seen every search warrant or investigative report as they haven’t all been made public because this is very much still an open case.

According to one of their nannies, JonBenet had worn Burke's hand-me-downs before. Just because they were too big for her doesn't mean she couldn't have worn them and Kolar doesn't clarify what is meant by fecal material. It could range from stains from not wiping well to entire stools.

It has been made clear that this piece of evidence involving feces was it being spread on her box of candy. It was also clear that he has formed his feces in a grapefruit sized ball that was found in JonBenet's bed. Two different housekeepers (not nannies) who did all of the cleaning for the Ramseys have attested to this. Also, a number of members of law enforcement has spoken about it, as well. The idea that all of these people are lying and that none of them knew the difference between chocolate and feces makes no sense at all. That would be saying that two independent parties and investigators for the city, county, and FBI, including an investigator that has been entrusted by the agency to train other agents, are all fabricating evidence.

The homicide occurred in 1996. The detectives who were present at the crime scene had moved on by then.

Again, there's a reason Kolar was brought in and it was because of his experience and expertise. However, Kolar would have had access to crime scene investigators that had been at the scene and the case files. Does that mean that investigators for any case that comes in years later isn't equipped to analyze the case files or fully understand the case? Of course not. We have seen a number of cold cases solved in the past few years and the investigators that took on those cases decades after the fact were able to do it. It isn't reasonable to expect that an investigator who wasn't at the crime scene itself wouldn't be capable of analyzing and understanding the crime scene evidence.

James Kolar was briefly employed by the Boulder District Attorney’s Office from 2004 to the Spring of 2006. He self-published his book.

Yes...and? Many people self-publish at this point and did in 2012. Kolar has said that he opted for self-publishing because he didn't want to compromise the product through the editing process that publishers demand their authors go through. He self-funded the book from his own retirement fund, but said it was worth it due to the district attorney's refusal to allow the investigation to move forward after the John Mark Karr fiasco.

The lead investigator on the case was Mark Beckner. In a news conference in the spring of 1998, then-Chief Beckner said Burke was not a suspect.

He did, because Burke couldn't be a suspect due to his age. The term suspect has a very specific meaning and suspects are treated differently by the court when it comes to their privacy. A suspect is "a person whom the prosecutor has reasonable grounds to believe committed a crime within the jurisdiction." Burke couldn't have legally committed a crime, therefore, he can't be a suspect.

Also, a lot of information has come forward since 1998. However, in an AMA he did for Reddit in 2015 when asked what book on the crime he would recommend to read on the crime, he recommended James Kolar's book because "he lays out the evidence very well and tells it without the emotion that others have done."

It's worth it to CBS. The amount they will have to pay is unlikely to eclipse the amount of revenue pulled in during the series. Make 20 million (an example) in ad revenue and only have to pay Burke 1 or 2 mil. Not a bad profit margin when it comes to accusing a child of murder just to make a buck.

CBS is currently being sued for $750 million, not one or two. That number is not an arbitrary one. Libel damage is calculated by each state using a specific equation factoring in different factors of the individual's life. It would be likely that if Burke had a case, he could win the profits CBS made on ads, plus profits they made selling the specials online, plus more, easily. The $20M number Intentional libel carries a hefty penalty in Colorado and CBS lawyers were entirely aware of that before the special aired. CBS could have opted for a more generic special, such as the one on ID Discovery, CNN, or NBC, and not have had to deal with a Ramsey lawsuit. However, their legal experts felt the evidence in the special stood up to scrutiny enough to air it.

I posted those stats in response to the detailed list upthread of the names of children who had committed homicides.

And I responded based on those statistics. Again, just because a crime is statistically unlikely doesn't mean it wasn't what happened. The FBI has said so much.

There is if evidence implicating John is uncovered. There is no statute of limitations on murder.

The Grand Jury opted not to indict John for murder. The Grand Juror interviewed for 20/20 "claims to have seen secret evidence in the course of the proceedings that he said makes it clear who killed the then-6-year-old girl." He stood by the indictments made. Remember, the Grand Jury saw a large amount of evidence that the public hasn't seen and won't see until the investigation is either closed or the state court requires it to be released. There's a reason the indictment didn't include a count of murder, and that's because jurors who saw this evidence didn't believe either parent was the killer.
 
It made more of an impression on me than poop and pics of pineapple.

Again, the analysis of fiber evidence from that era was faulty 90% of the time. 90%! You can choose to say it’s important, but to do so is ignoring what the FBI has said about it and that the evidence has less merit when the suspect lives with the victim.

Lisa: Yes. Normally, if they do an accessory charge which here is generally after the fact, it's usually somebody else. My opinion would be that there's a third person.

Yes, her educated, experienced, expert opinion.

He sliced the air, making a slashing motion.

No matter how you interpret it, Jim Clemente said this about that footage: “That’s a physical demonstration. There’s no appropriate emotion at all that this has happened to his sister.” Clemente formerly trained law enforcement and psychologists on how to interview children and how to interpret those interviews. Also, I rewatched that interview and he said “A knife...or a hammer.” He also clearly describes how she was taken to the basement. Again, educated, experienced experts say this is not normal and is a red flag.

Chocolate does melt and smear. It's not shocking that there would be brown smears on a candy box.

I used to be a financial advisor in a retail bank. A bank client once used the bathroom and had spread her feces on the wall. (She had a severe disability and we later learned from family that she did this during times of stress or anger.). It wasn’t found until it had dried. Let’s be clear, the odor remains. Also, crime scene analysts,no matter how bad they are, would no the difference between feces and chocolate. In fact, most people can tell the difference between feces and chocolate.

If they did find evidence of a small amount of feces on the box I might suggest JB had used the toilet, wiped herself poorly, not washed her hands and touched the box.

Either way, CSIs didn't collect anything with fecal smears except JonBenet's underpants and that was all residual post-wash staining
.

Again, the feces has been said by reputable and experienced investigators to be Burke’s and it has been referred to by a number of investigators. You have not seen every search warrant or investigative report as they haven’t all been made public because this is very much still an open case.

According to one of their nannies, JonBenet had worn Burke's hand-me-downs before. Just because they were too big for her doesn't mean she couldn't have worn them and Kolar doesn't clarify what is meant by fecal material. It could range from stains from not wiping well to entire stools.

It has been made clear that this piece of evidence involving feces was it being spread on her box of candy. It was also clear that he has formed his feces in a grapefruit sized ball that was found in JonBenet's bed. Two different housekeepers (not nannies) who did all of the cleaning for the Ramseys have attested to this. Also, a number of members of law enforcement has spoken about it, as well. The idea that all of these people are lying and that none of them knew the difference between chocolate and feces makes no sense at all. That would be saying that two independent parties and investigators for the city, county, and FBI, including an investigator that has been entrusted by the agency to train other agents, are all fabricating evidence.

The homicide occurred in 1996. The detectives who were present at the crime scene had moved on by then.

Again, there's a reason Kolar was brought in and it was because of his experience and expertise. However, Kolar would have had access to crime scene investigators that had been at the scene and the case files. Does that mean that investigators for any case that comes in years later isn't equipped to analyze the case files or fully understand the case? Of course not. We have seen a number of cold cases solved in the past few years and the investigators that took on those cases decades after the fact were able to do it. It isn't reasonable to expect that an investigator who wasn't at the crime scene itself wouldn't be capable of analyzing and understanding the crime scene evidence.

James Kolar was briefly employed by the Boulder District Attorney’s Office from 2004 to the Spring of 2006. He self-published his book.

Yes...and? Many people self-publish at this point and did in 2012. Kolar has said that he opted for self-publishing because he didn't want to compromise the product through the editing process that publishers demand their authors go through. He self-funded the book from his own retirement fund, but said it was worth it due to the district attorney's refusal to allow the investigation to move forward after the John Mark Karr fiasco.

The lead investigator on the case was Mark Beckner. In a news conference in the spring of 1998, then-Chief Beckner said Burke was not a suspect.

He did, because Burke couldn't be a suspect due to his age. The term suspect has a very specific meaning and suspects are treated differently by the court when it comes to their privacy. A suspect is "a person whom the prosecutor has reasonable grounds to believe committed a crime within the jurisdiction." Burke couldn't have legally committed a crime, therefore, he can't be a suspect.

Also, a lot of information has come forward since 1998. However, in an AMA he did for Reddit in 2015 when asked what book on the crime he would recommend to read on the crime, he recommended James Kolar's book because "he lays out the evidence very well and tells it without the emotion that others have done."

It's worth it to CBS. The amount they will have to pay is unlikely to eclipse the amount of revenue pulled in during the series. Make 20 million (an example) in ad revenue and only have to pay Burke 1 or 2 mil. Not a bad profit margin when it comes to accusing a child of murder just to make a buck.

CBS is currently being sued for $750 million, not one or two. That number is not an arbitrary one. Libel damage is calculated by each state using a specific equation factoring in different factors of the individual's life. It would be likely that if Burke had a case, he could win the profits CBS made on ads, plus profits they made selling the specials online, plus more, easily. The $20M number Intentional libel carries a hefty penalty in Colorado and CBS lawyers were entirely aware of that before the special aired. CBS could have opted for a more generic special, such as the one on ID Discovery, CNN, or NBC, and not have had to deal with a Ramsey lawsuit. However, their legal experts felt the evidence in the special stood up to scrutiny enough to air it.

I posted those stats in response to the detailed list upthread of the names of children who had committed homicides.

And I responded based on those statistics. Again, just because a crime is statistically unlikely doesn't mean it wasn't what happened. The FBI has said so much.

There is if evidence implicating John is uncovered. There is no statute of limitations on murder.

The Grand Jury opted not to indict John for murder. The Grand Juror interviewed for 20/20 "claims to have seen secret evidence in the course of the proceedings that he said makes it clear who killed the then-6-year-old girl." He stood by the indictments made. Remember, the Grand Jury saw a large amount of evidence that the public hasn't seen and won't see until the investigation is either closed or the state court requires it to be released. There's a reason the indictment didn't include a count of murder, and that's because jurors who saw this evidence didn't believe either parent was the killer.
Or they could not determine which parent did what.
 
It was also clear that he has formed his feces in a grapefruit sized ball that was found in JonBenet's bed.

? awillis, are you suggesting that BR molded the feces into a ball shape
with his hands?
 
? awillis, are you suggesting that BR molded the feces into a ball shape
with his hands?
That's the impression the housekeeper has given in her interviews. I can't think of another way it could have been made and part of scatolia involves "playing" with feces.
 

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