Journalistic Ransom Note

[Camper]

You are very perceptive!!! You got me, :croc: however, I did also post the following in my beginning thread post:

There are problems with the note:

Who - No one was familiar with a foreign faction!
What - Kidnapping - body was still in the house!
Where - Ramsey home - only people at home were the Ramseys.
When - Someone was NOT sleeping that night.
Why - No reason found why Ramseys would be disliked for any reason.
How - Head blow struck AFTER death had already occurred, overkill. You can only kill someone once.

:blowkiss: I relinquish my crown to Tipper.



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[Toltec]

The only people I believe JAR would forgive is his Dad and Burke....NOT PATSY. He did not particularly like Patsy (he described her as "flashy") and suggested to police that it maybe could have been one of her friends.

JAR was just 3 years old when dear-old-dad left him and his sisters and married his "princess". No doubt in my mind he held some sort of resentment which is NORMAL.

 

[duffy]

Thank you moderator!

A previous post, by a previous person, quoted Holdontoyourhat, I would like to also.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holdontoyourhat
Haven't you noticed that almost every thread evolves into an RDI with scandal material?

Just because the RN addresses the who, what, where, etc. doesn't necessarily make it journalistic. It may suggest the perp is fairly organized, and/or has some technical experience in writing composition.

Holdontoyourhat, you really struck a new chord for me, pointing to the
specifics of the note, that really gives more credence to the specific person that is on my A list of suspects.

I am curious about which scandalous material you refer to? Thanks.

At one time on WS, there was a great deal of thought given to the possibility
that the note was written elsewhere by someone else. A pre med thought
pointing to a family member. The truth remains illusive.

======================>>>The regular posters on this thread do get
posting alert responses to the thread. To those people who know the content of the attack on me I will respond.

It seems that I struck a vital chord in my thought that the FBI should have been and should be involved in this case NOW.

I have crawled out from under the bus and am just fine. :blowkiss:

ummmm. didn't have a thing to do with the involvment of the FBI. I agree wholeheartedly the FBI should have gotten involved.......a long time ago. I don't know how it has happened that they haven't, with all of the national attention this case has recieved.

I understand certain criteria has to be met or the local LE inviting the FBI in. The ransom note says its a kidnapping. The crime scene says it's a kidnapping gone bad.

Has to be political for the FBI not to have gotten involved, I just don't understand who could have that much power or how.

Marc Furhman is getting involved in the Terry Schiavo case, wonder why he doesn't think about JonBenet? Politics again?

 

[KatzHome]

It is my opinion that if no one is going to be prosecuted because of a certain Colorado law ~ then I don't think the FBI would get involved.

 

[Camper]

Burke is not guilty as far as I am concerned.

Therefore I do feel the FBI should get involved even at this late date.

I guess murder is so common these days, that little girls are just considered expendable.

3 page ransom notes for kidnappings that did not happen BUT did leave a dead body are so rare, that enacting a law to call 'Fake kidnappings a felony of themselves' would never be enacted.

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[sissi]

The FBI should certainly be involved, there is always the possibility that it WAS a kidnapping, however slight. Returning the body may have been tricky, odd, unusual, or downright risky, however it is possible.

 

[duffy]

Ok, I was talking to my daughter earlier about the JonBenet case in particular the ransom note. She's only 24 so this was before her time.

Anyway, my daughter who has no interest in true crime, like her mother, and no knowledge of the ins and outs of true crime in the least says, "Mom, the mother could not have written that note the night of the actual murder. She would be so anxious she would not be able to write it." I said "I know, that's what bothers me because I think patsy in a moment of anger struck out........." My daughter interrupted me and said, "Don't you think for one minute that this mother wasn't capable of writing the note beforehand and planning this murder."

I've always given patsy the benefit of the doubt and thought she may have done it in a fit of rage after having found out about sexual activity between JonBenet and j.r.

I have talked to many young women who's mother blamed them for molestation which took place as a child, usually with a father/step father. They were treated very badly and often physically abused by the mother.

Somehow I think the picture my daughter paints is the one that fits.

 

[Camper]

This scenario would fit the 'forgiveness' comment by JAR, so SOON after the murder.

With a house that big, it would have been possible for Barnhills sighting of the person he first identified as JAR approaching the house Christmas Day, to have slipped into the home unoticed and right up the stairs to the bedroom area.

The up staircase is right by the front door. Is it possible that there had been another encounter by the Seuss book owner and the victim, and that PR found them yet again? WHEN would the note have been written that very day of Christmas, or BEFORE after the party of the 23rd. I am thinking Christmas day, IF IF this scenario fits the crime.

WE, don't know the actual truth in all matters of this case, these are opinions we offer here. Opinions are also all that the BPD and other investigators have to work with, but they do have more information to work with.

Your scenario works to tie in with John's statement that he had to get to Atlanta the 26th to attend to an important matter. IF IF JR had it figured out by then, on the who that wrote the note, and the murderer.

The Victory ties in (saving the little girl from further abuse), the pre med ties in, the comment in the note about good southern common sense, works for your input, imop. I am also wondering about how the two trips to the school nurse fit it, PR must have known about them, and what caused them. Adding fuel to the fire.

It also explains their lawsuits clearing Burke. Protective of JonBenet and Burke, indicates a pattern of love for the two small children. although IF IF this scenario is correct, one of the children ended up dead.




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[BlueCrab]

I've always given patsy the benefit of the doubt and thought she may have done it in a fit of rage after having found out about sexual activity between JonBenet and j.r.
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duffy,

The male DNA in the crotch of JonBenet's panties belongs to neither JR nor JAR. They are eliminated as the contributors of the DNA.

Assuming the DNA is from the killer, and I think it is, then for JR or JAR to be directly involved in the murder they would had to have hired a hit man, and the DNA is that of the hit man. But this scenario is not likely because the Ramseys know who did it and they are covering up, and they wouldn't cover up to protect an intruder or a hit man. For all practical purposes JR and JAR are thereby eliminated as the possible killers.

The Ramseys would cover up only to protect a family member, and by the process of elimination that family member appears to be BR. The DNA would be from BR's unknown older accomplice (the fifth person in the house that night). There's a pile of convincing evidence (missing crime scene evidence, etc.) there was a fifth person, and that fifth person is probably the killer.

IMO the fifth person in the house that night also dictated much of the ransom note but BR, who could not be eliminated by the CBI as the writer, was the actual writer.

BlueCrab

 

[Camper]

Uh Oh, Blue Crab, you overlooked duffy's post #127. I like this NEW scenario that duffy presents.

Then again, you also forgot the wooden toilet seat, home experiment that makes the possibility of the unidentified DNA in our tiny victims panty, having gotten there from the round of places the family went THAT day.

In my humble opinion, no drooling sexual, foreign faction pervert is going to have a pristine, unwrinkled, 3 page ransom note spread out as a display on a stair step. OUR unidentified drooling perp is going to leave a cryptic note on JonBenets bed. PLUS as our drooling perp, is carrying JonBenet down the stairs and straight out the door to the foreign faction driver who has been parked around the corner counting one/thousand one, one/thousand two, til the time is right to come around the corner to the FRONT DOOR OF THE RAMSEYS HOME.

I donut believe that Burke dictated nor wrote the ransom note either. BlueCrab, did Doug Stine give a handwriting sample?

Duffy suggests that the ransom note and the murder point to PR. DO any of our readers believe that Patsy would ever have shared the info about a step sons abuse, to a very close friend ?, or her mother or to one of her sisters?


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[duffy]

My daughter almost shouted at me when she interrupted me and then she said "Don't forget Susan."

We have a young woman who grew up with my youngest daughter who was sexually abused by her adoptive father. The adoptive mother knew, didn't care (She worked for Social Services too) and treated Susan worse than Cinderella and would abuse her physically on a regular basis.

In thinking about it, this woman seems to have some of the same characteristics of p.r. Carming when she needed, very opinionated, very sure of herself. Loud. Quite accomplished in her own right. She also would put Susan on display on occasion. Not beauty pagaents but susan was a beautiful girl. I need to add here, I never knew Susan was being abused but I never liked the adoptive mother in the slightest, she always gave me the creeps. You could know this woman for minutes and she would tell you she has two children, their son and the girl they adopted. She always made sure people knew Susan was adopted.

The visits to the school nurse began the begining of the end? This marks the begining of p.r.'s knowledge of the abuse and sexual activity between j.r. and JonBenet. patsy finds out for sure the 23rd, the night of the 911 ph. call. Writes the note eve of 23rd or 24th. Murders JonBenet before midnight of the 25th. The visitor would have been someone (JAR?) to come to the house, take away the evidence which needed to be missing.

I don't believe if JAR was the one committing the abuse it would enrage patsy to the point of murder. she would have much stronger feelings if the child molester was "her" man.

If it were JAR, I would think she would order JAR from the home, never to return and quietly, secretively take JonBenet to a therapist. If they have enough pull to quiet the D.A.'s office, I would think they would have enough pull to keep a reporting party quiet. of she might not have taken her to one at all. Just shove it under the carpet and tell JonBenet it never happened or to forget about it.

p.s. I gotta say this is my daughter's theory. The more I think about it the stronger I subscribe to. Kind of pi**es me off for as much as I have read and tried to decipher all the clues etc., she just blurts this out. lol

p.s.s. If someone thinks of a fly in this theories ointment please post it. I actually feel a peace with this theory but I would also like for all the pieces to fit.

 

[Toltec]

I was watching a program last night in which Clint Van Zant mentioned the JonBenet Ramsey case....the evidence destroyed so they could not solve the case.

Anyhoo...Camper...the Whites drove to Aspen to visit his mother.

HOTYH...what "scandal" are you speaking about????

 

[BlueCrab]

Uh Oh, Blue Crab, you overlooked duffy's post #127. I like this NEW scenario that duffy presents.

Then again, you also forgot the wooden toilet seat, home experiment that makes the possibility of the unidentified DNA in our tiny victims panty, having gotten there from the round of places the family went THAT day.

I donut believe that Burke dictated nor wrote the ransom note either. BlueCrab, did Doug Stine give a handwriting sample?

Camper,

I assure you I didn't overlook Duffy's post. All I'm saying is that Duffy's daughter's scenario has a problem in that the male DNA in JonBenet's panties is neither JR's, nor JAR's, nor BR's. And I'm sorry but contrary to your toilet seat scenario being the source of the DNA, I believe that the law of probabilities would dictate that, in any sex crime, the male DNA found in the crotch of the victim would be considered to be from the killer and not from a toilet seat.

DS gave a DNA sample, so it's likely he also gave a handwriting sample, especially since even Lou Smit said, "The Stine boy should be looked at".

BlueCrab

 

[Camper]

First of all to Toltec, the word scandal was used by Hammerized in one of his/her posts, and I had queried him/her on it, and he/she has not responded.

Blue Crab and all, I am reminded of a wonderful 'who done it movie' made in 1990, kept me on the edge of my seat. Harrison Ford was a prosecuting attorney who had had an affair with a female in the DA office.

The fem/fatale was found murdered, and Harrison was the suspect, because his semen was found in her body, his fingerprints were on one of the two wine glasses in the murdered womans apt. Etc.

AT risk of giving away the plot, the murder was premeditated by Harrisons OWN long suffering wife. She saved the semen from marital engagement, she cleverly arranged for Harrisons fingerprints to be on the glass etc. by bringing matching wine glasses to the victims home from Harrisons own home where he had wine also. Harrison got his come uppance at the end when he discovers his own wife did this to get even!!

Now then, IF IF JonBenets murder was pre-med, which is what I proposed 8.5 years ago, and everyone shot me down then. What would have prevented the murderer to have gotten (in advance) the BIG girl panty out of the package and gotten the dna from heaven knows where, to put on the panty, or to have dabbed the panty somewhere to pick up random dna. School on the day of the performance when everyone was in the auditorium or? OR a teachers special rest room at the school?

People with devious tasks to perform will find a way to get the job done. As strange as this entire case is, I am leaning toward this. HOWEVER, I would also add, that there is NO proof of this having been done.

Even dumbell perverts today, know about dna, and take great pains to NOT leave any OR to not leave the victim with his OWN identifying markers on the body in other words todays pervert would not leave the body to be found.


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[Lacy Wood]

"Presumed Innocent" by Scott Turow, I believe Camper. I though of "placed" DNA to distract but had forgotten the book/ movie...very interesting thought. I might suspect a large quantity if planted. I thought only a tiny spot was found but don't really know.

 

[capps]

Quote from Duffy's post:

My daughter almost shouted at me when she interrupted me and then she said "Don't forget Susan."

What is up with Susan any way, and that bogus e-mail?!

You didn't hear hide nor hair from her ... then six years later, after the case has some what calmed down ... she decides to pretend she is the chief of police and sends e-mails to certain people who handled the investigation in Mark Beckner's name. Also in the e-mails,showing the Ramsey's in a negative light with:" .. that BS law suit the Ramsey's had against Steve Thomas",and mocking Wood,the Ramsey lawyer.If I was the Ramsey's,I would not take too kindly to that.

And what does she have to say for herself? It was a joke,I'm a funny person." What the ...??? She thinks the investigation of her friends murdered child is a joke?? With friends like that,who needs enemies?

I wonder what the real purpose was for that?

The police did not charge her. I wonder why?

 

[Camper]

"Presumed Innocent" by Scott Turow, I believe Camper. I though of "placed" DNA to distract but had forgotten the book/ movie...very interesting thought. I might suspect a large quantity if planted. I thought only a tiny spot was found but don't really know.

--------->>>I knew the title I just forgot to include it in my post, OOPS. Remember also the wine glasses were in the evidence room, and Har Fd got his friend to somehow make them disappear, so no glasses were available for the court case as evidence, OR was it that the friend just did it cuz he felt sorry for Har Fd?

capps, isn't the time frame for the email about the time or near that Tracy started his crock TV programme?

Almost like an old Mickey Rooney Judy Garland movie, Judy says, "We could give a show", to which Mickey says, "I know where we can get a barn for the show", wee and they all laugh and dance into darkness, next scene. Hmmm.



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[GuruJosh]

DS gave a DNA sample, so it's likely he also gave a handwriting sample, especially since even Lou Smit said, "The Stine boy should be looked at".

BlueCrab

BC, i have a question for you about Lou Smit. I know he believes that neither Patsy nor J killed JBR.

1. Has he dropped Burke & JAR from his sights as well? Has he ever made a statement about the good ol' Ramsey Boys?

2. When we say that Smit favors an intruder theory, do you think he is STILL open to the pssibility that the "intruder" may have been someone known to the family, perhaps a juvenile, perhaps working in conjunction with a member of the R household that night?

 

[capps]

--------->>>I knew the title I just forgot to include it in my post, OOPS. Remember also the wine glasses were in the evidence room, and Har Fd got his friend to somehow make them disappear, so no glasses were available for the court case as evidence, OR was it that the friend just did it cuz he felt sorry for Har Fd?

capps, isn't the time frame for the email about the time or near that Tracy started his crock TV programme?

Almost like an old Mickey Rooney Judy Garland movie, Judy says, "We could give a show", to which Mickey says, "I know where we can get a barn for the show", wee and they all laugh and dance into darkness, next scene. Hmmm.



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Camper,

Yea,maybe...lol.

 

[dingo]

The biggest hurdle i have with note been pre written is the pristine condition it was in when discovered.No creases or signs of too much handleing at all. To beleive that an intruder wrote that note[which i dont ] we would also have to assume he/she wore gloves , I know it was tested for prints, but was it tested for sweat.The note I believe was written in felt tip pen,which would have a tendendcy to smudge if in contact with moisture.Was the house searched for disposable gloves.FWIW hair colouring kits come a set of set of throw away gloves.