jury is out until Wednesday 21 March: general discussion thread

[antiquegirl]

Found it.

10:12
RaffertyLFP:

Judge Heeney explains reasons for why courtroom was cleared yesterday [via Twitter]

10:13
RaffertyLFP:

Delay was related to a Facebook posting that someone claiming to be relative of juror [via Twitter]

10:14
RaffertyLFP:

Posting said juror made disparaging about Rafferty. Jurors shown Facebook foot of poster No one recognized poster [via Twitter]

10:15
RaffertyLFP:

Facebook poster was later found to be connected to perspective juror [via Twitter]

10:16
RaffertyLFP:

Justice Heeney said incident shows hazards of Internet and also need for jurors to not discuss the case outside court [via Twitter]

 

[Alethea Dice]

Thanks, AG. I do remember that now.

As for the earlier charges, I always wondered that myself. Since kidnapping resulting in death is an automatic 1st degree murder charge, why all the earlier charges.

 

[swedie]

Logically possible for both to be lying, and indeed likely with respect to some of the details. I think that who did what matters far less than that both contributed to the rape and murder of TS. I'm perfectly content to know nothing more than I know now about the precise roles and actions of MR and TLM in the hours leading up to Tori's death and concealment, just so long as both stay in prison, hopefully as dangerous offenders, for the rest of their sorry days.

s

I absolutely agree Scapa. :blowkiss: All the back and forth, as to whether she is lying or not really proves nothing in my opinion.:moo: TLM has been sentenced, doing her time; this trial is not about her. And the jurors will see that also. Most important in this case, and what is going to weigh heavily in the minds of the jurors, is the evidence connected to this case. Once they see the evidence, the video of MR withdrawing cash, his car in that parking lot with TLM in the passenger seat, that in itself will show they were together and acted together. My honest opinion, that is the icing on the cake. Then there's the evidence of Tori's autopsy, and I'm pretty certain it will show she was molested by MR. If her liver was still present, I am fairly confident other tissue on the trunk of her body remained, and likely the presence of blood found on her privates. I would like to know if his blood was also found on her remains. :waitasec: It is quite possible. We also know MR's and Tori's blood found on his gym bag, Tori's blood around the door frame of his car, I don't see how he will be declared as innocent. These few points of evidence alone are very damaging to his case. Cannot possibly see a way his defense team can deny video and DNA evidence. :moo:

 

[swedie]

(Respectfully snipped)

But they already have! Every part of TLM's testimony that included "he said/she said" statements were asked by the Crown and answered by her. She did not volunteer any of this info. One of the most important pieces of instructions that witnesses get is to answer all questions as briefly as possible and not add any elaboration. She will very likely be cross-examined by the defence on a lot of it. Both sides are trying to establish her lack of credibility and for opposite reasons.

JMO



http://www.emory.edu/oris/depos.htm

Originally Posted by swedie
The Crown is asking the jurors to make one simple decision and I cannot perceive them getting bogged down with all the "she said, he said" rhetoric.
(Respectfully snipped)

But they already have!

Guess you didn't understand my post. Underline and bold for clarity. Them meaning the jurors will not get bogged down. HTH eace:

 

[margaret_diane]

"But even after a couple of months, when the flesh is all but gone, forensic entomologists can interrogate the remaining maggots by extracting their juices; most toxins will linger in the fly larvae, so investigators can detect the presence of poisons, drugs, and other such chemicals."
FOUND HERE: http://www.damninteresting.com/the-remains-of-doctor-bass/

Based on this article, and several others I have read regarding forensic science I think its unlikely they found her actual liver. Rather, I think its more likely that gasses inside Tori's gut caused her gut to pop. I think they were probably able to tell the liver would have been lacerated based on chemicals in the remains they did find, and because they probably could see the fractured rib, and how it would have ripped into her liver. JMO.

 

[matou]

Man came home to get back on his feet

Saturday, May. 23, 2009

Two weeks before young Tori Stafford went missing, Dave Riddell was fed up.
After spending six years with his girlfriend Deborah Murray in Tori's hometown of Woodstock, Mr. Riddell packed up his belongings and left. He told neighbours that Ms. Murray's son, Michael Rafferty, had a temper, and had been “freeloading” off his mother since moving in with the couple a year ago.


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/man-came-home-to-get-back-on-his-feet/article1145995/

 

[swedie]

:what: OMG this is so so creepy, knowing what we now know. Loved children...I bet.

Mr. Riddell said Mr. Rafferty worked rarely, spending what money he did earn on groceries, electronics and designer clothes. But he said his ex-girlfriend's son liked children, and that while something of a schemer, didn't appear like he would do what he's now accused of – kill Tori.

“This is totally out of character. I figured he was going to end up in jail, but not for something like this,” Mr. Riddell told The Globe and Mail, adding Mr. Rafferty “loved kids. He was great with them.”

 

[flipflop]

Hmmm, I was in my very early 20s, I think, and I'm 33 now (Rafferty's 2 years younger than me). Late 90s? No, I don't remember his name. I think it might have been Michael.

Anywhere on his left arm. In the picture I have, he has tattoos on his upper and lower arm. I don't think it's him because of the one tattoo on the lower arm, but I'd like to be sure. The resemblance is just...astounding.

Also, I didn't know him well, but I remember he was a cheater, he had a kid (don't remember if said kid was male or female), and he didn't like being called a "goof," although he was kind of a goof.

Just catching up, in the photobucket link provided by AG, pic #40 shows a tat on his upper right arm.

http://s657.photobucket.com/albums/...fferty/?action=view&current=picsoflots044.jpg

 

[margaret_diane]

:what: OMG this is so so creepy, knowing what we now know. Loved children...I bet.

Mr. Riddell said Mr. Rafferty worked rarely, spending what money he did earn on groceries, electronics and designer clothes. But he said his ex-girlfriend's son liked children, and that while something of a schemer, didn't appear like he would do what he's now accused of – kill Tori.

“This is totally out of character. I figured he was going to end up in jail, but not for something like this,” Mr. Riddell told The Globe and Mail, adding Mr. Rafferty “loved kids. He was great with them.”

Interesting, even Mr. Riddel who knew him, lived with him, didn't think he was capable of harming a child in the manner he is accused of.

 

[dilbert]

con·text
   [kon-tekst] Show IPA
noun
1.
the parts of a written or spoken statement that precede or follow a specific word or passage, usually influencing its meaning or effect: You have misinterpreted my remark because you took it out of context.
2.
the set of circumstances or facts that surround a particular event, situation, etc.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/context

 

[swedie]

"But even after a couple of months, when the flesh is all but gone, forensic entomologists can interrogate the remaining maggots by extracting their juices; most toxins will linger in the fly larvae, so investigators can detect the presence of poisons, drugs, and other such chemicals."
FOUND HERE: http://www.damninteresting.com/the-remains-of-doctor-bass/

Based on this article, and several others I have read regarding forensic science I think its unlikely they found her actual liver. Rather, I think its more likely that gasses inside Tori's gut caused her gut to pop. I think they were probably able to tell the liver would have been lacerated based on chemicals in the remains they did find, and because they probably could see the fractured rib, and how it would have ripped into her liver. JMO.

At this point I am suggesting because Tori was also in garbage bags, placed in the shade of trees and under rocks, during a month or so of colder temperatures, her body would decompose more slowly. And because it was the trunk of her body in which the liver is contained, the decomposition would again take longer, keeping her liver somewhat perserved. HTH

 

[swedie]

Interesting, even Mr. Riddel who knew him, lived with him, didn't think he was capable of harming a child in the manner he is accused of.

Yes sadly MR didn't show any warning signs to Mr. R other then seeing MR end up in jail for some crime. Maybe if Mr. R had seen other warning signs, poor Tori would still be alive :'( Many killers are great at hiding the warning signs or trials, like PB and RW, that's how they get away without being caught for so long. One difference between the three is PB and RW didn't stalked out and murder little girls. Whereas MR is accused of abducting, sexually assaulting and murdering a little girl. All so very sick, sick, sick. :moo:

 

[dilbert]

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20090521/stafford_suspects_090521/

"]Police allege that McClintic helped Rafferty abduct Tori, and then helped him escape the area. Later, police allege Rafferty killed the girl on his own.

On Thursday evening, police continued to search for Tori's remains.

"This is totally out of character," said Dave Riddell, who lived with Rafferty and his mother for a year.

Riddell recently moved out of the home because he felt Rafferty was taking advantage of his mother's generosity.

Rafferty and McClintic next appear in court May 28.

 

[Salem]

Don't start bickering. That won't turn out well.

Thanks,

Salem

 

[swedie]

This could be the white shirt MR was wearing on the day he abducted Tori. The DC one under his coat.

http://i657.photobucket.com/albums/uu293/Whats_2009/Michael Rafferty/DSC00888.jpg

 

[maxfactor]

At this point I am suggesting because Tori was also in garbage bags, placed in the shade of trees and under rocks, during a month or so of colder temperatures, her body would decompose more slowly. And because it was the trunk of her body in which the liver is contained, the decomposition would again take longer, keeping her liver somewhat perserved. HTH

I think you're right Swedie, the fact that she was in bags under a tree and under rocks would definitely slow things down. I remember that Det Smyth could smell decomp when he walked down the lane, makes me think there was still some flesh left. We'll know soon enough though.

 

[Hello_Kitty]

2 things.

I'd like to see kittymama's picture. :/

and... Rafferty said "I didn't do this."

Lie? Probably.

I believe actually he said 'I didn't do it' ... reason I know he said 'it' is because I have been thinking about this since he was arrested, thinking how strange he would use 'it' instead of saying 'i'm not guilty'. Maybe I am reading too much into that statement

 

[margaret_diane]

I think you're right Swedie, the fact that she was in bags under a tree and under rocks would definitely slow things down. I remember that Det Smyth could smell decomp when he walked down the lane, makes me think there was still some flesh left. We'll know soon enough though.

You could be right - there could have been some flesh left. But I'm thinking that if there were gasses and bacteria involved in the decomposition, it could be those things that were creating the stench kwim?

 

[dilbert]

This could be the white shirt MR was wearing on the day he abducted Tori. The DC one under his coat.

http://i657.photobucket.com/albums/uu293/Whats_2009/Michael Rafferty/DSC00888.jpg

Allegedly.

 

[maxfactor]

You could be right - there could have been some flesh left. But I'm thinking that if there were gasses and bacteria involved in the decomposition, it could be those things that were creating the stench kwim?

That's exactly right, they would cause the stench. There would need to be flesh and organs left at that point for him to smell it I would think. If the bags were tied that would have slowed insects getting inside as well. I think Swedie might be onto something there. Maybe LE has more evidence than we think they do. I certainly hope so. I just want justice for Tori.