jury is out until Wednesday 21 March: general discussion thread

[maxfactor]

And, back to the shoes....does anyone have a link for when LE came to TM's house to get items with Tori's DNA?

 

[margaret_diane]

That's exactly right, they would cause the stench. There would need to be flesh and organs left at that point for him to smell it I would think. If the bags were tied that would have slowed insects getting inside as well. I think Swedie might be onto something there. Maybe LE has more evidence than we think they do. I certainly hope so. I just want justice for Tori.

I really don't know Max. I can see your point for sure, and I'm not arguing against you here - but what if we expanded on this idea for a minute:

What if the garbage bags acted as a mini greenhouse? It would get hot in there. Perhaps hotter than if the remains had been left exposed to open air, with better ventilation. What if this sped up decomposition? What if this caused the gasses and such to build up, and things went "pop" as described in the article I linked earlier up thread? What if what was left was liquefied, putrified remains? Maybe what they did was test whatever liquids and goo were left over from skin and tissues and organs etc. Not sure. Its interesting for sure and I do hope we find out more about how the forensics worked in this case -- I just wish learning about forensics didn't have to come at Tori's expense. KWIM? :twocents:

 

[maxfactor]

I really don't know Max. I can see your point for sure, and I'm not arguing against you here - but what if we expanded on this idea for a minute:

What if the garbage bags acted as a mini greenhouse? It would get hot in there. Perhaps hotter than if the remains had been left exposed to open air, with better ventilation. What if this sped up decomposition? What if this caused the gasses and such to build up, and things went "pop" as described in the article I linked earlier up thread? What if what was left was liquefied, putrified remains? Maybe what they did was test whatever liquids and goo were left over from skin and tissues and organs etc. Not sure. Its interesting for sure and I do hope we find out more about how the forensics worked in this case -- I just wish learning about forensics didn't have to come at Tori's expense. KWIM? :twocents:

That's entirely possible, but I think it would depend how many rocks were piled on top. I remember from the videos when they found Tori, they seemed to be working back in the trees, it would have been considerably cooler there.

 

[antiquegirl]

And, back to the shoes....does anyone have a link for when LE came to TM's house to get items with Tori's DNA?

MAY 21: Police visit Tori's mother in Woodstock and ask for a tooth and shoes from the little girl, as officers searching for Tori's body comb a farmer's field north of Guelph.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2009/05/29/9608161-sun.html

 

[Hello_Kitty]

This has nothing to do with this case, but there is 2 hour special on dateline real life myseries on TLC abour Russell Williams. Tonight 9 dst

 

[JayFriend]

The show is repeated at midnight.

Incidentally, it's ironic that a couple of high school dropouts would dispose of shoes they wore at the crime scene, while a hotshot private school and university educated colonel would wear the same boots to a police interview.

 

[swedie]

The show is repeated at midnight.

Incidentally, it's ironic that a couple of high school dropouts would dispose of shoes they wore at the crime scene, while a hotshot private school and university educated colonel would wear the same boots to a police interview.

Good point Jay.

 

[Hello_Kitty]

The show is repeated at midnight.

Incidentally, it's ironic that a couple of high school dropouts would dispose of shoes they wore at the crime scene, while a hotshot private school and university educated colonel would wear the same boots to a police interview.

He was too arrogant, he didn't think he'd get caught.

 

[jilly]

The show is repeated at midnight.

Incidentally, it's ironic that a couple of high school dropouts would dispose of shoes they wore at the crime scene, while a hotshot private school and university educated colonel would wear the same boots to a police interview.

Street smart as opposed to book smart?

 

[jilly]

He was too arrogant, he didn't think he'd get caught.

Nor did he think he'd even be considered.

 

[Flowercb]

This is what we can all do for Tori's family and to honor her memory.

Unfortunately, as the U.S. has discovered, there is a higher burden of proof when they have the death penalty on the table and sometimes the people get convicted of a lesser charge because of this. Jurors are also more hesitant when the death penalty is on the table. Look at the Casey Anthony trial.

Also, on the chance that someone is wrongly convicted we are putting innocent people to death.

I say that rotting in a tiny cell is more of a punishment and sometimes the more certain way for justice. Sentences need to be longer and no parole for murderers.

I doubt these maniacs will stop doing terrible things to children because it is due to some serious character flaw or psychological problem that they do this in the first place. I doubt they will stop because the death penalty is out there.:moo:

 

[maxfactor]

The show is repeated at midnight.

Incidentally, it's ironic that a couple of high school dropouts would dispose of shoes they wore at the crime scene, while a hotshot private school and university educated colonel would wear the same boots to a police interview.

Very good point Jay!! RW is another prime example of everyone around him having no idea what he was up to or capable of.

 

[Wondergirl]

CTV's original Interview with Det. Smyth, the officer who found Tori's remains. He describes finding them, and the area they were in.

There was "new" information, and information that did not come from McClintic.

http://watch.ctv.ca/news/latest/remains-found/#clip195581

 

[swedie]

I believe actually he said 'I didn't do it' ... reason I know he said 'it' is because I have been thinking about this since he was arrested, thinking how strange he would use 'it' instead of saying 'i'm not guilty'. Maybe I am reading too much into that statement

It really makes one wonder what MR meant when he cried, "I didn't do it". Did he mean he didn't abduct Tori, sexually assault Tori, bludgeoned her with the hammer or all three. For that plea and that's the only plea or words we have heard from MR since his arrest, is a lie. (Personally I don't care to hear his lame excuses and lies either).:moo:I would say he is guilty of all three but we may never know the truth. Hopefully the evidence will shed light on who did what. I feel we can be pretty certain MR is the one who sexually assaulted Tori. Typically abductions of this kind and of children, where a male is involved, it is for sexual reasons. :moo:

 

[matou]

CTV's original Interview with Det. Smyth, the officer who found Tori's remains. He describes finding them, and the area they were in.



http://watch.ctv.ca/news/latest/remains-found/#clip195581

Despite one of the most massive police searches in the province’s history — 900 cops involved — Tori’s body would not be found until July 19th. It was not by accident or even a veteran investigator’s hunch, as originally reported by the media. Police had obtained a court order to retrieve phone records from Rafferty’s BlackBerry, court heard. OPP discovered that Rafferty had used his BlackBerry to check voice mail at 7.47 p.m., April 8, with that call pinging off a cellphone tower near Mount
Forest.

http://www.thestar.com/news/article...fic-details-of-slaying-revealed-as-case-opens

 

[swedie]

Unfortunately, as the U.S. has discovered, there is a higher burden of proof when they have the death penalty on the table and sometimes the people get convicted of a lesser charge because of this. Jurors are also more hesitant when the death penalty is on the table. Look at the Casey Anthony trial.

Also, on the chance that someone is wrongly convicted we are putting innocent people to death.

I say that rotting in a tiny cell is more of a punishment and sometimes the more certain way for justice. Sentences need to be longer and no parole for murderers.

I doubt these maniacs will stop doing terrible things to children because it is due to some serious character flaw or psychological problem that they do this in the first place. I doubt they will stop because the death penalty is out there.:moo:

I would be happy with the rotting in a tiny cell thing flower, but prisoners have too many perks while sitting in their cells. Take away their visitations, phone use, TVs, three square meals a day, computers, possibility for education. Those are just a few perks they don't deserve IMO.

 

[Shasta]

The area's also at the top of Wellington County, altitude wise, so cooler. The farmers from the Mennonite community there control the wild animals to an extent--so fewer coyotes, foxes, predators.

I reserve a modicum of hope that some good hard forensic evidence will be retrieved from the crime site for Victoria.

 

[daisy.faithfull]

The area's also at the top of Wellington County, altitude wise, so cooler. The farmers from the Mennonite community there control the wild animals to an extent--so fewer coyotes, foxes, predators.

I reserve a modicum of hope that some good hard forensic evidence will be retrieved from the crime site for Victoria.

Hi Shasta,

Welcome to Websleuths! I'm pretty new to her forum too, although I've been lurking for awhile. It's great to see others jumping in

I think that we have reason to hope that the the Crown has evidence like that. I guess we'll have to wait and see, it's proving to be very difficult to do so.

Thanks for joining for Tori from all the way in Saudi Arabia! In the last day or so Tori's father mentioned to the media that Tori's story was reaching countries overseas. I hope you stick around

 

[flipflop]

I drove by the crime site today. I always get such an eeeerie feeling being out there. The pathway is VERY muddy, seems to have been alot of recent visitors.

Yes you are correct about the elevation in the are Shasta, also about the coyotes. We do have a problem with them in this area. Farmers try to control the population of these animals close to the barn and cattle fields. Where VS was found is quite aways from any barn or cattle field. The fields surrounding are cash crop fields and forest/ swamp land.

 

[antiquegirl]

Had I carried a child for nine months, nursed him, changed his diapers, nurtured and loved him, no matter what crime he was convicted of, I would not want him to spend the next 25 - 50 years under these conditions:

Even this would be heartbreaking had I mothered this monster:

Some people might prefer that we return to prison cells such as this:

http://www.lorrifreedman.com/Photog...84252_G83H5F#!i=1435613174&k=xP5QfkX&lb=1&s=L​

... or this:

But Canada is supposed to be a civilized country. We are not in Turkey or Afghanistan. We are supposed to treat everyone humanely, even criminals.

The first two pictures are from Canada. They do not look like any lap of luxury to me. I don't believe that anyone would want to spend even a month like this, much less a lifetime.

From the website of the first image:

“Segregation tends to ratchet up prisoners’ anger and makes them more difficult to control, [and] allowing visitors is one way of trying to alleviate it,”

"prisoners who were visited by family and friends were less likely to reoffend."

http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/p...punish-inmates/article2237630/?service=mobile

Yes, of course I want criminals punished - appropriately and for a duration commensurate with the severity of their crimes. No, I don't want them living in a Club Med environment. But I do believe in a humane treatment of all human beings and not reverting to Draconian conditions. Maybe I'm just a bleeding heart liberal. Or maybe I'm just a mother who tries to put herself in everybody's shoes.

Think about it: if it were your child sent to prison for the rest of his life, how would you want him treated?

JMO

:twocents:
:cowcouch:

R.I.P., Tori. Sadly, nothing can bring you back now.