Just a theory about JBR case

[Ray_of_hope]

No, I wasn't there. Maybe an intruder broke in since none of us was there and could know for sure.

That ransom note had too much detail IMO. And written in the home is taking such a chance. I'm on the fence but there are opinions that sway me in both directions. I wish we knew the truth.

 

[ispywithmylittleeye]

There is only one person who has come forward to say Burke had a bad temper, a former family friend named Judith Phillips who told a story about Patsy claiming an incident from when Burke was 7 where he struck JBR with a golf club was intentional and that Patsy told her he "has a temper". If Phillips told this story to the police, they didn't believe it because the lead investigator believed the golf club incident was an accident. She went public with this in 2016.

I don't think John Ramsey wiped blood off of his unconscious 6 yr. old's private area and the redressed her in size 12 underpants to cover for Burke.

The underpants were urinated In and I don't believe they were changed.

There is only one person who has come forward to say Burke had a bad temper, a former family friend named Judith Phillips who told a story about Patsy claiming an incident from when Burke was 7 where he struck JBR with a golf club was intentional and that Patsy told her he "has a temper". If Phillips told this story to the police, they didn't believe it because the lead investigator believed the golf club incident was an accident. She went public with this in 2016.

I don't think John Ramsey wiped blood off of his unconscious 6 yr. old's private area and the redressed her in size 12 underpants to cover for Burke.

But was she redressed? We only have JR and PR word. I believe JB put those things on herself because I believe she was awake when they got home. If redressed after the crime, why the blood and urinated pants?
The most damning thing would be body fluid or skin cells in her private area not clothing fibers. Those could be explained away. The wiping may have served no purpose at all but was just a crude attempt to double down on obscuring possible evidence.
If the Ramseys did try to stage or cover up a crime, one can only imagine the hysteria involved. I get anxiety just thinking about it.

 

[Swirlz]

Transfer of clothing fibers of family members can take place when someone lumps together clothing to be washed, dried and folded. Especially when tumbled dry and the clothing attaches together, mixes and transfers lint, etc. Clothing fibers can then transfer to vaginal folds simply by being raised and lowered when using the rest room. If any moisture is left in the meatal area, especially by a young child, the moisture will grab the fibers and hold them.

Patsy being questioned about the size 12 underpants the body was found in:

A. Well, I think that I bought a package of the -- they came in a package of Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. I think I bought a package to give to my niece.

Q. Which niece was that?

A. Jenny Davis.

Why would Patsy launder a pair of size 12 underpants taken from a packaged set she'd purchased for some other child? Jenny Davis was 12 BTW. For those unfamiliar with children's underpants sizes, a 6 yr. old would wear a size 6, a 12 yr. old would typically wear a size 12.

 

[Swirlz]

The underpants were urinated In and I don't believe they were changed.

But was she redressed? We only have JR and PR word. I believe JB put those things on herself because I believe she was awake when they got home. If redressed after the crime, why the blood and urinated pants?
The most damning thing would be body fluid or skin cells in her private area not clothing fibers. Those could be explained away. The wiping may have served no purpose at all but was just a crude attempt to double down on obscuring possible evidence.

If the Ramseys did try to stage or cover up a crime, one can only imagine the hysteria involved. I get anxiety just thinking about it.

She was penetrated with the paintbrush handle and her lower regions were wiped of blood and she was then redressed in size 12 underpants, she continued to bleed just a little, there were few faint drops. Then she was strangled. She urinated at death.

 

[Ponytale]

If fibers transfer that easily, where are Burke's fibers?

If Burke did not participate in the cover up after the initial accident had happened and stayed in his room/bed for the whole night (as I believe it had happened in my theory), it would explain why there were so little forensic evidence of Burke being involved.

 

[Swirlz]

What evidence would suggest Burke delivering the blow to the head?

 

[Ponytale]

She was penetrated with the paintbrush handle and her lower regions were wiped of blood and she was then redressed in size 12 underpants, she continued to bleed just a little, there were few faint drops. Then she was strangled. She urinated at death.

Yes, most of those are the facts (except the part that she was penetrated with the paintbrush witch I believe is still arguable how the cellulose material got there exactly and if it was the paint brush used that made her bleed). But there are problems here that we do not know fore sure how, when and by whom had happened.

Her lower regions wiped - again, it could have had happened at any time and location between her last bath and her death. Redressing - same. We have no factual evidence that those two happened in sequence. And we can not prove that she was redressed - she might have put those size 12 underpants on herself at some point in that day/night. We do not know if she did and if she did we do not know why.

We know she was strangled and urinated at her death, and we know she had drops of blood on her size 12 underpants.

 

[Ponytale]

What evidence would suggest Burke delivering the blow to the head?

What evidence of Patsy, John or an intruder doing it? It is just my opinion and my theory.

 

[Swirlz]

There were only small faint droplets of blood in her vulva area/underpants crotch. She would have had to have had blood wiped from that area after she was penetrated otherwise there'd be more blood.

She wasn't walking around in underpants big enough for her to pull up to her armpits. She wouldn't have been able to walk in those. And Patsy claimed she didn't notice them when she undressed JBR for bed.

 

[Swirlz]

If either John or Patsy is responsible for SA or strangulation, why doesn't it make infinitely more sense that one or the other of them delivered the head blow?

 

[Ponytale]

There were only small faint droplets of blood in her vulva area/underpants crotch. She would have had to have had blood wiped from that area after she was penetrated otherwise there'd be more blood.

Yes, there were drops of blood and she was wiped. It was seen and proved as a fact with the UV light.
But we do not know when it had happened. We also do not know how it happened.

Again, the bleeding that resulted her thighs being wiped could have happened at any time before her last bath and her death. We can not know for sure. It could have happened the previous night, christmas morning, at the Whites or after they came back home. All we know is that there was some sort of assault that resulted in her bleeding as much that it needed to be wiped away. We also do not know with what she was wiped because it has never been found and we do not know if it was someone else who wiped her or she did it herself. It is all possible.

If she was assaulted at the Whites party and that caused the bleeding and was wiped clean there, she might have had her original underpants on (the size 6s that were never found) and there could have been more bleeding to them. After coming home she, or someone else, changed her underpants to those mysterious size 12s. It would explain why there was not much blood in them.

She wasn't walking around in underpants big enough for her to pull up to her armpits. She wouldn't have been able to walk in those. And Patsy claimed she didn't notice them when she undressed JBR for bed.

She was a 6 year old girl, maybe left to attend for herself. I know my daughter "accidentally" took my socks after the wash and wore those not noticing that they were much too big until I pointed it out to her that those were not her socks. Sometimes children just do not think about it or just do not care. If she needed to change her underpants alone after arriving home from the Whites and, for example, was eager to go and play before bedtime, she could have just changed them in hurry, tucking them in her long johns so that she would not even pay attention to it. If that was the case, the long-johns kept the underpants up. IMO it is possible.

We do not know if Patsy undressed her for bed or not as a fact. Patsy did say that, but they said many things that they changed later or were just lying about.IMO she did not attend to her after arriving home from the party.

 

[Ponytale]

If either John or Patsy is responsible for SA or strangulation, why doesn't it make infinitely more sense that one or the other of them delivered the head blow?

I believe that the head blow was an accident caused by Burke. Why? Because this is my theory.

I also believe that SA was no part of the staging and was a separate occasion. If you read my theory, you'd know that I wrote that I do not know who could have been behind the SA. It could have been a family member or someone at the Whites party. It does not matter really if you separate it from the crime itself.

IMO John and Patsy are both responsible for strangulation as they were both present and decided to go through with it mutually. Why? Because I believe that they saw it as the only way. They needed for a "monster" responsible for the crime that happened to their child. A monster who would be able to strangle their child, because a brother, mother or a father would not do such a heinous act to their beloved child. But again, it is just my opinion and theory, so please take it as so.

 

[Swirlz]

The FBI believed the SA occurred after the blow to the head.

I don't believe anyone would strangle their child to death because another child had caused a head injury.

I find it highly unlikely that JBR was walking around in size 12 underpants that had been purchased for some other child but I suppose it isn't impossible.

 

[Ponytale]

The FBI believed the SA occurred after the blow to the head.

I don't believe anyone would strangle their child to death because another child had caused a head injury.

I find it highly unlikely that JBR was walking around in size 12 underpants that had been purchased for some other child but I suppose it isn't impossible.

People here believe in different things. Many believe that John, Patsy or both were able to stage a sexual assault of their daughter. So why would it be hard to believe that a parent would strangle their child? Especially if the parent could have believed that the child was already dead before that. I suppose it isn't impossible either.

 

[Swirlz]

I believe the adult(s) in the house committed the head blow, strangulation and SA. This overwhelmingly is what actual evidence suggests.

 

[Ray_of_hope]

There were only small faint droplets of blood in her vulva area/underpants crotch. She would have had to have had blood wiped from that area after she was penetrated otherwise there'd be more blood.

She wasn't walking around in underpants big enough for her to pull up to her armpits. She wouldn't have been able to walk in those. And Patsy claimed she didn't notice them when she undressed JBR for bed.

JB must have been alive to bleed from vaginal penetration.

 

[Swirlz]

JB must have been alive to bleed from vaginal penetration.

Right.

 

[ispywithmylittleeye]

There were only small faint droplets of blood in her vulva area/underpants crotch. She would have had to have had blood wiped from that area after she was penetrated otherwise there'd be more blood.

She wasn't walking around in underpants big enough for her to pull up to her armpits. She wouldn't have been able to walk in those. And Patsy claimed she didn't notice them when she undressed JBR for bed.

Here is the size of the paintbrush handle for reference. I dont believe the other part of it was found but I dont think it was any larger than the portion the cord was tied to. It was from an artists brush therefore the size was very narrow in circumference. Other than the jagged edge where it was broken, I would not expect a lot of damage to the genital area as it looks approximately the size of a fat pencil.
The injury would come from her either struggling or the perpetrator missing the entrance . The handle itself, while crude, was not large in comparison to a childs genitals tract say like say like the handle of a house painters brush.
I don't believe the injuries would have left large amounts of blood.
As for the underpants, they were new from the package. While they were indeed far to big for her, it is untrue that they wouldn't stay up. All that was needed to keep them in place was a tighter outer garment. Im curious if anyone at the Whites helped her toilet that day and could vouch for her having different underwear on. She was wearing black velvet legging type pants that would have held big underwear in place. It is only PRs word that she didn't put the underwear on JB. That can't be proven or disproven. My belief will always be she came home and dressed herself . She wanted those panties bad enough for her mother not to give them to the person the gift was designated for. A six year old isn't going to let something like size get in the way from doing what they want. Perhaps the argument that day was over huge underpants, not matching clothing....

 

[Swirlz]

It is only PRs word that she didn't put the underwear on JB.

Why would Patsy pick that particular detail to lie about?

 

[ispywithmylittleeye]

Why would Patsy pick that particular detail to lie about?

The first reason that comes to mind is that JBR dressed herself when they got home. Patty said she did but she would have never picked those large underwear an ugly long john's.
JBR would have and that goes against the narrative that she was asleep in the car and put directly to bed which I don't believe happened. My belief is that even if tired out , the kids would have been excited to get back to their new gifts just like BR said he did in the Dr Phil interview.