Kentucky - Judge killed, sheriff arrested in Letcher County courthouse shooting - Sep. 19, 2024 # 2

[LadyL]

I wouldn't have thought he weighed that much from the pictures. But maybe I'm not a good judge of that kind of thing.

MOO

looks over 300 to me

 

[Seattle1]

As much as I don't care for defense attorneys at all, I have no reason to believe the defense is knowingly promoting a delusion. I suggested the motive could have been due to a delusion on Stines' part but we really don't know, yet. I tend to lean toward it not being a delusion at all, but simply unchecked rage.

I do however have reason to believe the defense knows a lot more than the public does, and that's what has informed his line of defense. The full video in context, the additional evidence he says exists, the extreme emotional distress as well as a secondary defense he intentionally hasn't named yet. Whatever it is he knows, is what's directing him to push for a full aquittal, and that's kind of a big deal, considering the world already saw what Stines did.

It'll be interesting to say the least, when we finally learn what the motive was, and what that additional evidence is.

jmo

Respectfully, OP responded to my linked post below which was a direct quote by the defense attorney Jeremey Bartley. OP referring to a delusional act or unchecked rage doesn't change the quote which is really what's at issue here. That said, any qualified defense (attorney) knows that the commonwealth is not going to suddenly come out and announce they have a "motive" and here it is! That's just silly.

To be clear, a motive is not required to prosecute a case, nor is it required for a conviction.

Here, the prosecution is ethically bound not to speak to media about the case to protect the integrity of the investigation.

The court bound the case over to a grand jury. When the Indictment will be presented to the Circuit Court is unknown. Whether or not the Indictment will be sealed is also unknown.

Again, I have no animosity towards defensive attorneys. I'm saying I find Stines defense team on a media tour, providing taunting statements directed towards the commonwealth-- while promoting their client as an honorable public servant, in very bad form. MOO

Jeremy Bartley, Stines’ attorney said on the cable channel Law & Crime that prosecutors will have to provide a motive at some point.

“Ultimately,” Bartley said, “the Commonwealth has to give us the information to understand what would make this man who has served so honorably in his community get to the point that he thought the only thing he could do to protect his wife and daughter was to take action on his own.”

Copyright 2024 NPR

 

[Seattle1]

IMO, this is not only the most critical take, but what is truly at heart in this case:

Oct 12, 2024

Another thing that makes this killing difficult for people is that Stines, 43, and Mullins, 54, knew each other well. Before becoming sheriff, Stines served as Mullins’ bailiff....

And, of course, both men were entrusted to enforce the law here. Ward says if someone like the sheriff allegedly takes justice into his own hands, what’s to stop others from doing the same?

“This cuts to the heart of an ordered society, a democracy,” he says of the violence. “People feel like we're standing on quicksand.”

Why was a Kentucky judge killed? So far, it remains a mystery

The one-of-a-kind killing of a Kentucky judge, allegedly by the local sheriff, has shaken tight-knit Letcher County, leaving people baffled and unnerved as police try to figure out a motive.

www.wboi.org

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Without knowing Stines' motive, it's almost impossible to know which way to go with this.
Clearly, Stines had some kind of monumental issue with Mullins. Enough to gun him down in cold blood.

What we don't know, is if the issue was due to something Stines was caught up in.
Although murdering a man in broad daylight seems counter-intuitive.
Whatever consequences may have been coming if Stines was involved in something shady would almost certainly be less severe than the consequences for murder. And being a law man, he'd know that better than anyone. Although if "extreme emotional disturbance" is legit, that might toss rational thought out the window.
Or if this awful issue was something that at least Stines believed Mullins was involved in, that he (Stines) thought was deserving of what transpired in the judge's chambers.

I appreciate what defense attorney Jeremy Bartley says here about seeing the entire video (not the edited one the public saw) and the other evidence, that can put that edited video into context to get the full story. He believes the highest level of culpability should be manslaughter, and explains why: based upon the facts they know so far manslaughter should be the ceiling. While he intends to mount a full defense and admits that extreme emotional disturbance is only a partial defense, he intends to pair that with another defense and go for a FULL aquital.

Excellent post. Thank you for sharing!

 

[Ontario Mom]

I'm saying I find Stines defense team on a media tour, providing taunting statements directed towards the commonwealth-- while promoting their client as an honorable public servant, in very bad form. MOO

<RSBM>

I understand. But we don't know what he knows, so... until we do, I'm reserving my opinion.

jmo

 

[Kemug]

This mention of an "episode" by the sheriff is really interesting. Could be mental or physical. Hopefully doctors are following it up right now. It doesn't sound like he was trying to hide it, so there should be some people who know something about it, especially his family. It could be the answer to everything.

 

[Tricia]

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[MoominMama222]

This mention of an "episode" by the sheriff is really interesting. Could be mental or physical. Hopefully doctors are following it up right now. It doesn't sound like he was trying to hide it, so there should be some people who know something about it, especially his family. It could be the answer to everything.

I've been wondering about a brain tumor. That would be really sad if so.

 

[Tricia]

Hey Websleuths members,
I need your help.
Do you know where it was reported that the Sheriff called his daughter using the judge's phone and she answered? I can't find it anywhere, but I swear it was reported early on.
I would be very grateful if you could provide a link to that information. Thank you.
Tricia

 

[AppleTreeGreen]

Hey Websleuths members,
I need your help.
Do you know where it was reported that the Sheriff called his daughter using the judge's phone and she answered? I can't find it anywhere, but I swear it was reported early on.
I would be very grateful if you could provide a link to that information. Thank you.
Tricia

IIRC, it was brought up during the preliminary hearing.

Detective: Kentucky sheriff called his own daughter on judge’s phone 'seconds' before shooting

A preliminary hearing for a Kentucky sheriff accused of killing a judge revealed more details about what happened that day and hinted at some possible motives.

www.wlky.com

 

[iamshadow21]

Hey Websleuths members,
I need your help.
Do you know where it was reported that the Sheriff called his daughter using the judge's phone and she answered? I can't find it anywhere, but I swear it was reported early on.
I would be very grateful if you could provide a link to that information. Thank you.
Tricia

Doesn't say she answered, I haven't heard that anywhere, but this article talks about the calling the daughter from the judge's phone.

Detective: Kentucky sheriff called his own daughter on judge’s phone 'seconds' before shooting

A preliminary hearing for a Kentucky sheriff accused of killing a judge revealed more details about what happened that day and hinted at some possible motives.

www.wlky.com

 

[Tricia]

Doesn't say she answered, I haven't heard that anywhere, but this article talks about the calling the daughter from the judge's phone.

Detective: Kentucky sheriff called his own daughter on judge’s phone 'seconds' before shooting

A preliminary hearing for a Kentucky sheriff accused of killing a judge revealed more details about what happened that day and hinted at some possible motives.

www.wlky.com

I checked the prelim and didn't find it. I thought I read it early on but I can't find it. So let me state very clearly. In My Opinion the sheriff's daughter answered the phone on the judges phone and that's why he got so mad. IN MY OPINION.

 

[iamshadow21]

I checked the prelim and didn't find it. I thought I read it early on but I can't find it. So let me state very clearly. In My Opinion the sheriff's daughter answered the phone on the judges phone and that's why he got so mad. IN MY OPINION.

There were people speculating about it but I never saw it in msm.

I think this guy was going to do it anyway and he didn't need the touchpaper of an answered call.

In my opinion, he'd decided on a course of action long before they went in that chamber.

MOO

 

[Tricia]

Vinnie Politan is reporting that the daughter's number was not saved in the judge's phone.
Let's talk this out.
I don't believe it has ever been reported that her number was saved in the judge's phone. The only thing the detective said on the stand was the sheriff's daughter's phone number was ON the judge's phone.
If the Sheriff called his daughter from his phone and she did not answer, then he used the judge's phone and called his daughter, and she did answer, then perhaps that's why he freaked out and shot him. IMO
Of course, the sheriff could be in such a mental state that there is no motive. Perhaps the phone calls had nothing to do with the shooting—all IMO.
The comment the sheriff made "they're trying to kidnap my wife and kid" sounds paranoid in my opinion.
I don't know about you, but this case keeps me up at night trying to figure it out.

 

[kccorona]

I've been wondering about a brain tumor. That would be really sad if so.

I’ve been following from the beginning of this case, and have never been able to shake the feeling that there’s a chance (albeit a small one) that some kind of physiological condition was “brewing” that may have contributed to the sheriff’s seemingly erratic behavior, not just the day of the shooting, but in the weeks leading up to it. I swear there were other, more detailed posts in the first thread that contained more odd and out of character things that had been reported about the Sherriff’s recent behaviors, but perhaps they were deleted. I did find this, originally posted in thread #1 by @MassGuy, which lays out some of the ways the Sheriff had deviated from his normal duties, but aside from the weight loss I don’t know that any of these strongly suggest a physical cause of such a shift in his actions.

Now, with this recent reference to him having an “episode”, I’m very curious if there could be something else going on… anyway. Just thought it was interesting to re-consider the possibly alongside the context of the below post from earlier days of this case:

Post in thread 'Kentucky - Judge killed, sheriff arrested in Letcher County courthouse shooting - Sep. 19, 2024'
Kentucky - Judge killed, sheriff arrested in Letcher County courthouse shooting - Sep. 19, 2024

 

[Chimera]

Theory : If the daughter's number was not saved in the judge's phone and if she answered the judge's number when it rang, she must have known whose number that was.
Does that sound like a valid possibility ?
I'm still on the fence whether Stines suddenly snapped, or if he planned the killing long beforehand.
Still nothing has emerged that makes me think there was the least excuse on the part of the sheriff.
Omo.

 

[al66pine]

Stines' Dau's Cell Number & Judge's Cell?

Vinnie Politan is reporting that the daughter's number was not saved in the judge's phone.
Let's talk this out.
I don't believe it has ever been reported that her number was saved in the judge's phone. The only thing the detective said on the stand was the sheriff's daughter's phone number was ON the judge's phone.
If the Sheriff called his daughter from his phone and she did not answer, then he used the judge's phone and called his daughter, and she did answer, then perhaps that's why he freaked out and shot him. IMO
....
this case keeps me up at night trying to figure it out.

snipped for focus @Tricia
Yes, the cell phone issues are confusing; it's difficult to zero in on the facts.

Here's a link to transcript of the Oct. 1 Probable Cause Hearing, posted by @Allabouttrial (TYVM ).


****************

Post in thread 'Kentucky - Judge killed, sheriff arrested in Letcher County courthouse shooting - Sep. 19, 2024'

Oct 2, 2024

Erm I apologise in advance for the length....

PROBABLE CAUSE HEARING

1ST OCTOBER

PROSECUTOR - Can you state your name for the record?

DETECTIVE - Clayton Stamper.

PROSECUTOR - How are you employed?

DETECTIVE - I'm a detective with the Kentucky State Police assigned to post 13 hazard.

PROSECUTOR - How long have you been employed?

DETECTIVE - I've been with KSP a little over 24 years. A detective since 2006.

PROSECUTOR - And have you in the (inaudible), have you investigated the death of Kevin Mullins?

DETECTIVE...

• Allabouttrial

• 
• 
• 

************

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Vinnie Politan is reporting that the daughter's number was not saved in the judge's phone.
Let's talk this out.
I don't believe it has ever been reported that her number was saved in the judge's phone. The only thing the detective said on the stand was the sheriff's daughter's phone number was ON the judge's phone.
If the Sheriff called his daughter from his phone and she did not answer, then he used the judge's phone and called his daughter, and she did answer, then perhaps that's why he freaked out and shot him. IMO
Of course, the sheriff could be in such a mental state that there is no motive. Perhaps the phone calls had nothing to do with the shooting—all IMO.
The comment the sheriff made "they're trying to kidnap my wife and kid" sounds paranoid in my opinion.
I don't know about you, but this case keeps me up at night trying to figure it out.

It's possible that Stines daughter ignored her fathers call and answered the call from Mullins phone. We just don't know yet what exactly took place. And we don't know if Mullins number was saved in the daughters contact list or merely in the call log because her father dialed it.

Kentucky State Police Trooper Matt Gayheart told FOX 56 News on Wednesday that contrary to how it was stated in court, investigators won’t know if her number was saved in Mullins’ phone until forensic reports come back in a few weeks. However, the call log reportedly showed her number had been called prior to the shooting.

The "kidnap" comment was allowed hearsay at the prelim that may not be a verbatim quote of the officers who directly heard it.

“I wasn’t present,” Stamper said. “But when he was taken into custody, I was told by one of the other officers that were there that he made the comment, ‘They’re trying to kidnap my wife and kid.'”

I'm with you on trying to figure this one out. It's a really rare type of case along with video of the murder being released but not much else which is leading to a whole lot of speculation on motive.

https://www.wjhl.com/news/local/for...-killing-judge-to-appear-in-court/?nxsparam=1

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Theory : If the daughter's number was not saved in the judge's phone and if she answered the judge's number when it rang, she must have known whose number that was.
Does that sound like a valid possibility ?
I'm still on the fence whether Stines suddenly snapped, or if he planned the killing long beforehand.
Still nothing has emerged that makes me think there was the least excuse on the part of the sheriff.
Omo.

Maybe.

Another possibility is that Stines daughter purposely ignored her fathers calls but answered an unknown number to see who was calling. JMO.

 

[al66pine]

@Tricia
My post a few minutes ago gave link to a post w transcript by @Allabouttrial.

I've cut & pasted the part of cross exam relating to Stines' dau's cell & the judge's cell (but not re interview(s?) w Stine's dau.)

(ETA. If link does not direct reader to the post w transcript, it was on first thread, post 1100.)
________________________________
DEFENSE - And I would presume that you and the other officers you mentioned - when you secured the scene, that you secured those phones as well, is that correct?

DETECTIVE - Yes.

DEFENSE - And have you reviewed both of those phones?

DETECTIVE - They're currently at the forensic lab at this time, being downloaded. I have had discussions with the people at the lab regarding the downloads.

DEFENSE - And those are a couple other questions I want to ask you, but my original question was - have you reviewed or are you aware of the content of the phones?

DETECTIVE - I've not personally seen it because I've not received those reports yet.

DEFENSE - Again, based upon your conversation with the officers, are you aware of any recent content that was up and could have been relevant at the time of their discussion?

DETECTIVE - I was told that Sheriff Stines had tried to call his daughter, and he had tried to call his daughter from the Judge's phone also.

DEFENSE - So, have you obtained the phone records from Judge Mullens' phone?

DETECTIVE - I don't have those in my possession yet, no.

DEFENSE - Have you issued a search warrant for those?

DETECTIVE - Yes, yes.

DEFENSE - And have officers confirmed that the Sheriff's daughter's phone number was on Judge Mullens' phone?

DETECTIVE - Yes.

DEFENSE - So that number had been called from Judge Mullens' phone?

DETECTIVE - Yes.

DEFENSE - So, we don't have a viewing of what transpired during that exchange of phones, but based upon your review of those moments prior to when Sheriff Stines observes that cell phone is it... was he previously seated?

DETECTIVE - Yes.

DEFENSE - Okay, so when we saw him he was standing the entire time.

DETECTIVE - He was seated in front of the Judge's desk.

DEFENSE - And when he looks at the cell phone - what is... can you describe his reaction in the video we haven't seen?

DETECTIVE - Whose reaction?

DEFENSE - The Sheriff.

DETECTIVE - You can't see his face in the video.

DEFENSE - Okay, but is it clear that.. does it appear to you that.. let me rephrase this - did he stand up after looking at the phone?

DETECTIVE - Yes, he stood up.

DEFENSE - And how long after he looked at the cell phone and stood up did this occur before what you played.

DETECTIVE - Just seconds.

DEFENSE - Did you make the decision on edits today for what you were going to present? Did you make the edit to determine which portion of the video we were going to see today?

DETECTIVE - No sir, I did not.

DEFENSE - Both cell phones have been sent to the State Police Forensic team, is that correct?

DETECTIVE - Yes.

DEFENSE - Have you gotten any early report on what was found?

DETECTIVE - No.

DEFENSE - Were both phones still on the desk when you arrived?

DETECTIVE - The Judge's phone was on the desk, Sheriff Stines' phone was on his person.

DEFENSE - So are there photographs of... was the phone unlocked at that point, or was it still open?

DETECTIVE - Are you asking about both of them?

DEFENSE - Well first let's talk about.. first I'm talking about Judge Mullins' since his was the one that was still on the desk, and presumably nobody touched it right prior to you securing it, correct?

DETECTIVE - No, no.

DEFENSE - Yeah so I'd like to know about that, have you ascertained what was currently open on that cell phone?

DETECTIVE - No, I don't know at this point, no.

DEFENSE - You don't know?

DETECTIVE - No.

DEFENSE - Do you think that would be.. do you think that would be important to learn?

DETECTIVE - I hope to learn that when the reports ready, yes.

DEFENSE - But as of today you can't tell us what was currently open on the Judge's phone?

DETECTIVE - No sir.

DEFENSE - Did you conduct an interview with Sheriff Stine's daughter?

DETECTIVE - I did not but she has been interviewed.

DEFENSE - Are you aware of... who was present when she was being interviewed?

DETECTIVE - Lieutenant Randy Combs and Detective Anthony Trotter.

DEFENSE - And she was interviewed with or without her parent.

DETECTIVE - With.

DEFENSE - So her parent was present at the time you interviewed her?

DETECTIVE - Yes I believe. I wasn't there, but yes, I think so.

DEFENSE - Law enforcement has not spoken to her without her parent present?

DETECTIVE - Not that I'm aware of.

DEFENSE - Did state police obtain her phone?

DETECTIVE - No.

DEFENSE - Do you intend to intended obtain records for her cell phone number?

DETECTIVE - Possibly, yes.

DEFENSE - Do you believe that that would be soon that you'll do that?

DETECTIVE - Could be, yes.

DEFENSE - Had you ever intended to do that or did you just... respond to my question?

DETECTIVE - Well, the call should be on the Judge's records too and she's made statements about what occurred during those conversations.

DEFENSE - I understand that but I would presume that.. have you ascertained whether Judge Mullens also had apps that stand outside of phone records?

DETECTIVE - I've not received those records yet, I don't know what's on the phone.

DEFENSE - Fair enough, but I mean did you look at the phone? did it appear there were apps on it?

DETECTIVE - I'm not the person that's qualified to look through the phone.

DEFENSE - Okay, but you're familiar with a cell phone, they can host other forms of communication.

(Objection from prosecutor as to asked and answered. Judge says he can testify to any personal knowledge he has)

DEFENSE - So you're aware that phones can be used for apps, such as Facebook?

DETECTIVE - Yes.

DEFENSE - Okay, and that is not something that is captured by cell phone records - you'd agree with me?

DETECTIVE - I agree.

DEFENSE - So, in light of that, although the records may be mutually the same... the same between Judge Mullens' phone and the Sheriff's daughter do you believe that you could also ascertain other information from a cell phone app content?

DETECTIVE - Are you asking what apps are on the phone?

DEFENSE - Yes, well that was my original question..

DETECTIVE - Well, I don't about... I've not received that report yet. I don't know what apps he had downloaded on the phone.

DEFENSE - If he has social media apps do you intend to....

DETECTIVE - That could lead to additional search warrants, yes.

DEFENSE - Had you determined whether there were any previous issues, personal or professional between Sheriff Stines and Judge Mullens?