Kentucky - Judge killed, sheriff arrested in Letcher County courthouse shooting - Sep. 19, 2024 # 2

[Dre]

Anyone else think about this case as you fall asleep and again when you wake up?

I think many things had been ravaging the sheriffs brain, and with every grievance he was turning into a ticking time bomb.

I think the deposition, while from our view was not hurting his life or career, was part of his mental turmoil. Whether he perceived Mullins to have had a hand in his blame, or if people were looking at him differently, perhaps his family was treating him differently… his multiple breaks, him using the word “episode” makes me feel that it was a triggering experience, and we might not ever know why.

I think the judge-daughter (and maybe wife) phone communications were the proverbial straw that broke the camel’s back. On top of everything happening, losing his family was one thing he would never be able to reconcile.

The perception of multiple things slipping away at once would indeed cause emotional disturbance and snapping on someone you feel betrayed by isn’t a stretch as we’ve seen time and again in murder cases.

With very little evidence, seeing people already screaming for jury nullification scares the bejesus out of me! Setting a standard where execution is excusable is just not a society I want to be a part of.

 

[Inthedetails]

Anyone else think about this case as you fall asleep and again when you wake up?

I think many things had been ravaging the sheriffs brain, and with every grievance he was turning into a ticking time bomb.

I think the deposition, while from our view was not hurting his life or career, was part of his mental turmoil. Whether he perceived Mullins to have had a hand in his blame, or if people were looking at him differently, perhaps his family was treating him differently… his multiple breaks, him using the word “episode” makes me feel that it was a triggering experience, and we might not ever know why.

I think the judge-daughter (and maybe wife) phone communications were the proverbial straw that broke the camel’s back. On top of everything happening, losing his family was one thing he would never be able to reconcile.

The perception of multiple things slipping away at once would indeed cause emotional disturbance and snapping on someone you feel betrayed by isn’t a stretch as we’ve seen time and again in murder cases.

With very little evidence, seeing people already screaming for jury nullification scares the bejesus out of me! Setting a standard where execution is excusable is just not a society I want to be a part of.

This case isn't under my skin like other cases, but I am baffled at the vibe that some people are seeking justification for cold-blooded murder.

jmo

 

[Ontario Mom]

With very little evidence, seeing people already screaming for jury nullification scares the bejesus out of me! Setting a standard where execution is excusable is just not a society I want to be a part of.

Thankfully that sort of thing is not going on here. But out there, in the unregulated land of gossip & rumor, folks will jump to conclusions then base their feelings on the case on that (and it happens in every single case).
Instead of waiting for the facts to tell the whole story.

Regardless of Stines' motive, his actions were grievously wrong & he needs to face the consequences according to the law.

jmo

 

[Angelcat13]

This case isn't under my skin like other cases, but I am baffled at the vibe that some people are seeking justification for cold-blooded murder.

jmo

I would be very interested to see - at some point, not necessarily now - to see a “study” by psychologists, sociologists, etc as to why this case seems to have evoked such strong reactions (possibly due to the unusual nature of the murder and the fact that it was caught on camera) and, more importantly, why so many people seem to sympathize with the Sheriff. I wonder if some of the strong feelings represent a lot of overall frustration at “the system” and how it seems to so often fail the victims and society that in some way people want to applaud someone they feel finally got justice when the Courts often seem to fail to do. I’m not saying the Judge deserved this - since none of us know what really happened in this case. I’m also not condoning the Sheriff’s actions, but I can see how many people may sympathize with the strong desire to protect your child, family, etc.

 

[Angelcat13]

Since I first heard about this case and the rumors surrounding it, my mind keeps going back to the the case of Ellie Nesler

ACCUSED MOLESTER IS KILLED IN COURT (Published 1993)

www.nytimes.com

And here is one I just saw today that is similar -

Dad frantically called 911 when 14-year-old daughter went missing, shot rapist to death: Wife

A father was arrested on suspicion of first-degree murder after shooting and killing a man accused of stalking and raping his daughter.

lawandcrime.com

These two cases are only similar if there is any truth to the rumors.

 

[Elley Mae]

Anyone else think about this case as you fall asleep and again when you wake up?

I think many things had been ravaging the sheriffs brain, and with every grievance he was turning into a ticking time bomb.

I think the deposition, while from our view was not hurting his life or career, was part of his mental turmoil. Whether he perceived Mullins to have had a hand in his blame, or if people were looking at him differently, perhaps his family was treating him differently… his multiple breaks, him using the word “episode” makes me feel that it was a triggering experience, and we might not ever know why.

I think the judge-daughter (and maybe wife) phone communications were the proverbial straw that broke the camel’s back. On top of everything happening, losing his family was one thing he would never be able to reconcile.

The perception of multiple things slipping away at once would indeed cause emotional disturbance and snapping on someone you feel betrayed by isn’t a stretch as we’ve seen time and again in murder cases.

With very little evidence, seeing people already screaming for jury nullification scares the bejesus out of me! Setting a standard where execution is excusable is just not a society I want to be a part of.

For the most part I agree, but I feel there are exceptions like this one.

Arkansas father kills man found with missing 14-year-old daughter: police

An Arkansas dad is accused of taking matters into his own hands when he found his missing 14-year-old daughter in a vehicle with a man in his 60s.

www.fox29.com

 

[jepop]

Since I first heard about this case and the rumors surrounding it, my mind keeps going back to the the case of Ellie Nesler

ACCUSED MOLESTER IS KILLED IN COURT (Published 1993)

www.nytimes.com

And here is one I just saw today that is similar -

Dad frantically called 911 when 14-year-old daughter went missing, shot rapist to death: Wife

A father was arrested on suspicion of first-degree murder after shooting and killing a man accused of stalking and raping his daughter.

lawandcrime.com

These two cases are only similar if there is any truth to the rumors.

I don't think these cases are similar. Regardless of the rumours in this case, the sheriff here murdered the judge when there was no immediate threat to anyone. He was alone with the judge, an unarmed man. I believe in this other case, the dad found a known stalker in a car with his 14 year old daughter and that is when the murder took place. So to me there is a potential for a ' crime of passion' defence in that case, which doesn't exist here. Jmo

ETA comment is in ref to Arkansas dad case. Not familiar with Ellie Nestler.

 

[Angelcat13]

For the most part I agree, but I feel there are exceptions like this one.

Arkansas father kills man found with missing 14-year-old daughter: police

An Arkansas dad is accused of taking matters into his own hands when he found his missing 14-year-old daughter in a vehicle with a man in his 60s.

www.fox29.com

In the case of the Arkansas dad in the article you shared (I shared one above, too) it sounds like that father was physically pursuing the man that had taken is underage daughter and whom they had an active order of protection against after having been charged with raping the girl. The family was reportedly terrified that he was going to kill the daughter to silence her testimony.

 

[Angelcat13]

I don't think these cases are similar. Regardless of the rumours in this case, the sheriff here murdered the judge when there was no immediate threat to anyone. He was alone with the judge, an unarmed man. I believe in this other case, the dad found a known stalker in a car with his 14 year old daughter and that is when the murder took place. So to me there is a potential for a ' crime of passion' defence in that case, which doesn't exist here. Jmo

I agree that the Arkansas case has many differences, but the case of Ellie Nesler is more similar - if the rumors are true OR if the Sheriff for whatever reason truly believed they were true. Again, not condoning it, just trying to understand what could drive someone to such an extreme act.

 

[Inthedetails]

Defensive measures in the face immediate danger to yourself or others is justification for murder. "Protecting your family" doesn't require shooting a man sitting behind a desk in his office.

I remain baffled at attempts to find this murder acceptable - that's not aimed at anyone in particular, just a general observation. I haven't seen this in other cases that I recall. It's an unsettling vibe, tbh.

jmo

 

[bestill]

I have only scanned the last few pages and don't know if this has been mentioned. Is MS a diabetic? Could that be what he's referring to as "an episode"? IANAD
Blood sugar crash. Sugar Crash: Symptoms and Treatments for Reactive Hypoglycemia
What does a sugar crash feel like?

So when you have low blood sugar, the cells in your body aren't receiving enough energy. This causes tell-tale symptoms including hunger, irritability, fatigue, anxiety, headaches, difficulty concentrating, shakiness, and dizziness. A blood sugar crash leaves you hungry - even if it wasn't that long since you ate.

 

[Occam's Zebra]

This case isn't under my skin like other cases, but I am baffled at the vibe that some people are seeking justification for cold-blooded murder.

jmo

I don't think anyone is seeking justification. Neurology can drive behavior. If the sheriff had a brain tumor or early-onset dementia or another condition that led to acute psychotic episodes, he was not acting the way he would normally act. This was his longtime friend that he murdered. Either he was stone-cold sane and believed murder was justified, or his brain was feeding him stories that made him believe it was justified. We don't know which.

FWIW a very small percentage of people with epilepsy experience post-seizure psychosis. They are not "themselves" during this time; they have delusional thoughts. Some people with focal seizures also exhibit behavior that's strange, and they can be aggressive - they are not under control of it. They don't know it's happening. It's like an alcoholic's blackout, without the drinking.

People with injuries to the frontal lobe of the brain will sometimes exhibit violent behavior afterward and become irrational (frontal lobe syndrome).

Long way of saying that people are not always responsible for their actions. Not saying this is the case here. MOO IMHO etc.

 

[Inthedetails]

I don't think anyone is seeking justification. Neurology can drive behavior. If the sheriff had a brain tumor or early-onset dementia or another condition that led to acute psychotic episodes, he was not acting the way he would normally act. This was his longtime friend that he murdered. Either he was stone-cold sane and believed murder was justified, or his brain was feeding him stories that made him believe it was justified. We don't know which.

FWIW a very small percentage of people with epilepsy experience post-seizure psychosis. They are not "themselves" during this time; they have delusional thoughts. Some people with focal seizures also exhibit behavior that's strange, and they can be aggressive - they are not under control of it. They don't know it's happening. It's like an alcoholic's blackout, without the drinking.

Long way of saying that people are not always responsible for their actions. Not saying this is the case here. MOO IMHO etc.

I'm not talking medical excuses, but what looks like acceptance for vigilantism.

Maybe I'm wrong about the vibe. I hope so!

Law and order requires compliance with the actual law, not taking matters in your own hands because you feel justified in anger and then getting a pass from your neighbors in the process.

jmo

 

[al66pine]

PCH Laxity and Vagueness?

That’s absolutely true- my opinion was that there was some laxity and vagueness in the prosecution’s testimony- I have no idea what the facts, motives and or intentions are- was trying to say how it appeared to me

@Harriett_Eva Thx for your post but not personally seeing “some laxity and vagueness” in Det. Stamper's answers during DIRECT exam by prosecutor.

W the Q & A below, prosecutor established PROBABLE CAUSE at this hearing:
"(1) A person is guilty of murder when: (a) With intent to cause the death of another person, he causes the death of such person …”
^ https://apps.legislature.ky.gov/law/statutes/statute.aspx?id=19717

Any laxity or vagueness emerged in CROSS EXAM where some of the questions & answers were vague or imprecise. Stumbling, bumbling, & fumbling . Imo largely because Stamper did not have details (e.g., phone records) YET and/or had not analyzed details (e.g., had not listened to recorded interviews) YET.
Early days in this case.

==============================
From Transcript below by @Allabouttrial in first thread, post 1100.
After Q & A w Det, Stamper to ID self & his employment w KSP.
_______________________________
"PROSECUTOR - And have you in the (inaudible), have you investigated the death of Kevin Mullins?
DETECTIVE - Yes, sir, I did.

PROSECUTOR - And can you tell us on what date that was?
DETECTIVE - It was September 19th, 2024.

PROSECUTOR - In an investigation of that death, were you able to determine who killed Kevin Mullins?
DETECTIVE - Yes.

PROSECUTOR - And how were you able to do that?
DETECTIVE - Video surveillance footage.

PROSECUTOR - And did you retrieve that video surveillance footage?
DETECTIVE - I did.

(Prosecutor requests for video to be entered. Defense objects. Sidebar. Video is then played)

PROSECUTOR - Are you able to identify the people in the video?
DETECTIVE - That was Sheriff Mickey Stines and Judge Kevin Mullins.

PROSECUTOR - And officer, who had the firearm?
DETECTIVE - Sheriff Stines.

PROSECUTOR - And the Judge was also in his black robe?
DETECTIVE - Yes.

PROSECUTOR - Do you know what portion of the courthouse that is?
DETECTIVE - That is the judge's chambers.

PROSECUTOR - And where is that located at ... physically located?
DETECTIVE - In the Letcher County Courthouse.

PROSECUTOR - That's all I have your honor.

(Judges asks defense if they would like to cross examine the witness)"

END of relevant part of transcript.

 

[Parsnip]

Psychosis is definitely mind boggling IME.

My heart goes out to you. It is such a confusing and wrenching experience.

 

[Parsnip]

Any laxity or vagueness emerged in CROSS EXAM where some of the questions & answers were vague or imprecise. Stumbling, bumbling, & fumbling . Imo largely because Stamper did not have details (e.g., phone records) YET and/or had not analyzed details (e.g., had not listened to recorded interviews) YET.
Early days in this case.

@al66pine , agreed. I continue to wonder whether MS is actively participating in his own defense.

 

[Deleted member 296739]

PCH Laxity and Vagueness?


@Harriett_Eva Thx for your post but not personally seeing “some laxity and vagueness” in Det. Stamper's answers during DIRECT exam by prosecutor.

W the Q & A below, prosecutor established PROBABLE CAUSE at this hearing:
"(1) A person is guilty of murder when: (a) With intent to cause the death of another person, he causes the death of such person …”
^ https://apps.legislature.ky.gov/law/statutes/statute.aspx?id=19717

Any laxity or vagueness emerged in CROSS EXAM where some of the questions & answers were vague or imprecise. Stumbling, bumbling, & fumbling . Imo largely because Stamper did not have details (e.g., phone records) YET and/or had not analyzed details (e.g., had not listened to recorded interviews) YET.
Early days in this case.

==============================
From Transcript below by @Allabouttrial in first thread, post 1100.
After Q & A w Det, Stamper to ID self & his employment w KSP.
_______________________________
"PROSECUTOR - And have you in the (inaudible), have you investigated the death of Kevin Mullins?
DETECTIVE - Yes, sir, I did.

PROSECUTOR - And can you tell us on what date that was?
DETECTIVE - It was September 19th, 2024.

PROSECUTOR - In an investigation of that death, were you able to determine who killed Kevin Mullins?
DETECTIVE - Yes.

PROSECUTOR - And how were you able to do that?
DETECTIVE - Video surveillance footage.

PROSECUTOR - And did you retrieve that video surveillance footage?
DETECTIVE - I did.

(Prosecutor requests for video to be entered. Defense objects. Sidebar. Video is then played)

PROSECUTOR - Are you able to identify the people in the video?
DETECTIVE - That was Sheriff Mickey Stines and Judge Kevin Mullins.

PROSECUTOR - And officer, who had the firearm?
DETECTIVE - Sheriff Stines.

PROSECUTOR - And the Judge was also in his black robe?
DETECTIVE - Yes.

PROSECUTOR - Do you know what portion of the courthouse that is?
DETECTIVE - That is the judge's chambers.

PROSECUTOR - And where is that located at ... physically located?
DETECTIVE - In the Letcher County Courthouse.

PROSECUTOR - That's all I have your honor.

(Judges asks defense if they would like to cross examine the witness)"

END of relevant part of transcript.

We’re just probably looking at it differently- just my opinions and thinking out loud

 

[mickey2942]

We’re just probably looking at it differently- just my opinions and thinking out loud

Everyone brings their own viewpoint and bias to a given situation, and tries to understand this from their point of view. It may be a completely incorrect assumption, but we try to put some sort of context into this behavior, because it is disturbing to think that LEO can just randomly walk into someone's office, and start shooting.

I don't know the "reason" why this occurred. Maybe to the shooter, it was indeed "justified". We have no clue. But I doubt that 12 jurors will agree that this action followed any logic.

 

[al66pine]

Laxity and Vagueness. Opinions.

We’re just probably looking at it differently- just my opinions and thinking out loud

@Harriett_Eva. Thx for your response. Yes, absolutely, positively, all of us on WS look at cases differently.
From your earlier post: "was some laxity and vagueness in the prosecution’s testimony..."
@Allabouttrial 's transcript set forth the DIRECT EXAM Q & A w prosecutor & detective.
Rereading it, I’m still missing the laxity or vagueness you and perhaps others are seeing.

Maybe a post pointing out the precise questions or answers in the direct exam will help me understand.

 

[OldAce]

Everyone brings their own viewpoint and bias to a given situation, and tries to understand this from their point of view. It may be a completely incorrect assumption, but we try to put some sort of context into this behavior, because it is disturbing to think that LEO can just randomly walk into someone's office, and start shooting.

I don't know the "reason" why this occurred. Maybe to the shooter, it was indeed "justified". We have no clue. But I doubt that 12 jurors will agree that this action followed any logic.

So much is said about justification, and it of little consequence here folks. Let it idle...
The Judge is dead. The sheriff shot an killed him. I was thinking we were concerned with his reason.
The sheriff will stand the consequences at trial as to punishment.