Kentucky - Judge killed, sheriff arrested in Letcher County courthouse shooting - Sep. 19, 2024 # 3

[Rosiebones]

Are there any other reasons that the daughter/wife might have been in direct contact with the judge in his line of official duties other than;
1. a restraining order for DV
2. involuntary commitment for behavioral/mental health issues.
The daughter may have been the contact person because the sheriff was more aware of his wife's contacts and conversations. MOO MOO MOO

 

[Rush4087]

Are there any other reasons that the daughter/wife might have been in direct contact with the judge in his line of official duties other than;
1. a restraining order for DV
2. involuntary commitment for behavioral/mental health issues.
The daughter may have been the contact person because the sheriff was more aware of his wife's contacts and conversations. MOO MOO MOO

Jmo, but I don’t think this had anything to do with the Judge’s line of official duties

 

[Ontario Mom]

Are there any other reasons that the daughter/wife might have been in direct contact with the judge in his line of official duties other than;
1. a restraining order for DV
2. involuntary commitment for behavioral/mental health issues.
The daughter may have been the contact person because the sheriff was more aware of his wife's contacts and conversations. MOO MOO MOO

As far as I know, we have no information at all that Stines' wife was ever in direct contact with the judge.
We only know his daughter was, based on testimony at the prelim about the phones, by the lead detective.

 

[?!?]

Are there any other reasons that the daughter/wife might have been in direct contact with the judge in his line of official duties other than;
1. a restraining order for DV
2. involuntary commitment for behavioral/mental health issues.
The daughter may have been the contact person because the sheriff was more aware of his wife's contacts and conversations. MOO MOO MOO

Why "in his line of official duties?" These folks 'all' knew each other -- they COULD have been planning a "surprise" retirement event for the sheriff, or working on any form of civic project/ community interest / family matter.

MOO - IANAE - YMMV - etc.

 

[Kaley Smith]

The sheriff gave us his motive: ''They're trying to kidnap my wife and daughter.'' My theory is that he believes in some conspiracy theory like the Deep State, and thinks the judge is part of a plot to take away his wife and daughter. Otherwise how do you explain him using 'They' instead of 'He'? It's either that or domestic violence in my opinion. The sheriff is off his rocker.

 

[OldAce]

Million dollar questions!

1) No True Bill -- I don't see this happening:

Reportedly, the Grand Jury must indict within 60 days of the prelim hearing which was held on Tuesday, Oct 1. That would be Nov 1, but since this date falls on a Sunday, I guess the default is by Monday, Nov 2 and this that date is just around the corner. According to Stines Defense Attorney Bartley, this is also a Letcher County Grand Jury.

The Common Wealth only called one witness during the prelim hearing -- lead investigator Clayton Stamper, who guarded that State's Murder-1 Charge pretty tight with his concise answers. Bartley was not allowed to argue for Manslaughter. Between the surveillance video of Stines shooting the unarmed Mullins, and any witnesses subpoenaed by the Grand Jury, I don't see anything standing in the way of Stines being indicted for Murder as initially charged in the citation by KY State Police.

While premeditation is not considered in defining capital murder under KY Statute KRS 507.020- Murder, the element of intent must be present. I dunno, seems to me those last seconds of the video when Stines is headed out the door until some motion or noise beneath the desk causes him to pause, and he stops, turns, aims his firearm under Mullins desk, and fires a couple more rounds before walking out the door -- that pretty much looks like intent to me.

Also, while I understand that the Defense can request to present evidence to the Grand Jury, they have no duty to accept it. In other words, I think Bartley's argument that the homicide was not planned, nor expected, and therefore this killing should be considered manslaughter, will have to come during trial.

Lastly, KY Murder Statute provides that a defendant under the influence of extreme emotional disturbance, determined from the viewpoint of a person in the defendant's situation, under the circumstances as the defendant believed them to be, is mitigation for the charge of manslaughter in the first degree, and not murder. But if true, only Stines can answer this alleged heat of the moment and/or crime of passion he was experiencing when he shot Mullins in his Chambers.

2) Jury Nullification:

I don't understand how or why anybody would want send the message that their once Sheriff is above the law, and that the rules of the land don't apply to him. My brain can't even touch that.

In fact, the law here also provides that even if Stines had a brain tumor, and his defense was this tumor caused him to act in an irrational manner when he executed Mullins, Stines defense against Murder would still fall under extreme emotional disturbance-- seeking a conviction for the lesser or manslaughter. MOO

Section 507.020 - Murder, Ky. Rev. Stat. § 507.020 | Casetext Search + Citator

Read Section 507.020 - Murder, Ky. Rev. Stat. § 507.020, see flags on bad law, and search Casetext’s comprehensive legal database

casetext.com

Thank you for your reply.

 

[Ontario Mom]

The sheriff gave us his motive: ''They're trying to kidnap my wife and daughter.'' My theory is that he believes in some conspiracy theory like the Deep State, and thinks the judge is part of a plot to take away his wife and daughter. Otherwise how do you explain him using 'They' instead of 'He'? It's either that or domestic violence in my opinion. The sheriff is off his rocker.

I've seen nothing in this case to lead me to suspect Stines is either off his rocker or on board with any sort of conspiracy theory. I can see why someone might assume this based on what he did, but the evidence as we know it, doesn't support that. It's whatever evidence we don't know, that really set him off.

jmo

 

[jepop]

The sheriff gave us his motive: ''They're trying to kidnap my wife and daughter.'' My theory is that he believes in some conspiracy theory like the Deep State, and thinks the judge is part of a plot to take away his wife and daughter. Otherwise how do you explain him using 'They' instead of 'He'? It's either that or domestic violence in my opinion. The sheriff is off his rocker.

I've wondered the same regarding the wording of that sentence assuming it's been accurately reported/ relayed by the witness. " They" evokes images of a potential paranoia gone over the edge into unreality. Granted this is technically hearsay at this point, it could point to some.sort of mental break down. As a defense I believe the D would need to prove affirmatively that the sheriff's mental state at the time of the murder was such that he could not distinguish between right and wrong/ lawful and unlawful. IOWs whatever Kentucky's version is of not guilty by reason of insanity. Idk, but whilst a psychotic break with reality is entirely speculative, imo this is the only way that this could not be murder 1. Moo

 

[Rosiebones]

I would assume if the potential defense is some sort of break with reality, that he would be hospitalized or at least undergo some testing. I wonder if he is under suicide watch. MOO MOO MOO

 

[PrairieWind]

@PrairieWind -- do you know anything about the grand jury here? How many days before they must return with an indictment? Thanks.

I have no idea how their grand jury process works there. It varies widely from state to state and region to region. Most of the places I have practiced criminal law don't use grand juries for indictment thankfully.

 

[arielilane]

Nothing new in linked article; however, a complete recap thus far.

Kentucky judge shooting: What was alleged about former Sheriff Shawn Stines' motive?

Motive remains a key question in the murder case against former Letcher County Sheriff Shawn "Mickey" Stines. Here's the latest.

www.courier-journal.com

10.4.2024

In the murder investigation against Stines, Judge Rupert Wilhoit allowed the case to move forward to a grand jury at the conclusion of the hearing. The former sheriff's next court date has not been announced.

 

[Chimera]

Nothing new in linked article; however, a complete recap thus far.

Kentucky judge shooting: What was alleged about former Sheriff Shawn Stines' motive?

Motive remains a key question in the murder case against former Letcher County Sheriff Shawn "Mickey" Stines. Here's the latest.

www.courier-journal.com

10.4.2024

In the murder investigation against Stines, Judge Rupert Wilhoit allowed the case to move forward to a grand jury at the conclusion of the hearing. The former sheriff's next court date has not been announced.

Thanks for the updates, @arielilane ... and everyone else !!
And so we wait.

I'm wondering if we'll be surprised at the motive ?
I.e., "WHAT ?? That was all ? Stines threw his life away for that ?"
Omo.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Thanks for the updates, @arielilane ... and everyone else !!
And so we wait.

I'm wondering if we'll be surprised at the motive ?
I.e., "WHAT ?? That was all ? Stines threw his life away for that ?"
Omo.

I've wondered the same. My impression though is that it'll be way more extreme than your example.
Mostly based on the demeanor/speech/facial expressions of the lead detective testifying at the prelim, but also based on Stines' cool & controlled body language even while shooting the judge in his chambers. For a lawman with a good reputation to just snap & do that, something deep inside must have broke.

jmo

 

[Keekdasneak1314]

Regardless of his profession and sworn duty, Could one ever personally imagine a set of circumstances where someone might do what the sheriff did? I don’t think that question means I’d support him, just trying to understand the context- I’m not necessarily saying in this case, but any case where someone was pushed over their limit, extreme circumstances, emotional distress, mental illness, psychosis… something? Anything? And in the heat of passion, or current circumstances felt that their only choice was to do what the sheriff did?

I’m not saying that there are those extreme mitigating circumstances in this particular case, but could one conceive of them being a possibility in any case? Under any circumstances? If not, fair, if possible, why would this particular case with limited evidence available, be outside the scope or reach of possibility?

I don’t know what happened in this case, I wasn’t there and I don’t live in that community- however I can conceive of scenarios where a person might make the choices that the sheriff made- doesn’t make them right or “justifiable” but perhaps understandable-

While I understand that WS is victim friendly as it should be- there is the presumption of innocence, which in this case is kind of mute in my opinion - there’s video- the sheriff shot the judge- and there is the possibility (while we don’t know the facts) that there is a narrative that explains why- in the sheriff’s mind- this was a viable/necessary course of action-

If the presumption is that there is no explanation and no possibility of mitigating circumstances or that the only possibility is murder 1 premeditation and death penalty- then I’m not sure that is a road I’d walk down- not justifying the sheriff’s actions- I’m willing to leave the door open to the fact that I don’t know what happened or was going on in the county and all I do know is that shockingly one man unexpectedly took another’s life-

I’m not sure I understand the relationship between trying to understand the context and what might have precipitated the death of the judge and that equating to supporting the sheriff-moo

idk. its a hard answer for me. it would all depend on my connections and if I felt I would be able to handle it w/o escalating. What I will say, I currently work in the DOC in my state, and the aftermath of courts, then trying to live their lives, becomes impossible. Their innocence is gone, and its really hard to come back from that. I can definitely empathize for both sides. I do think that the sheriff must have had some insider information to confirm the assault. In jersey, as an LEO, if you automatically commit a crime its 3 years in prison plus the additional charges. I say this to say, if he shot the judge and it was premeditated as they claim, then he meant it.

 

[Cryptic]

The sheriff gave us his motive: ''They're trying to kidnap my wife and daughter.'' My theory is that he believes in some conspiracy theory like the Deep State, and thinks the judge is part of a plot to take away his wife and daughter.

He may of been speaking metaphorically.

For example, Parent concludes that judge is actively encouraging daughter to make claims or enter into a legal process that could result in the Sheriff losing custody of her (in effect, "kidnapped" from his point of view).

 

[tlcya]

Judge's high-profile killing shakes a small town

 

[Seattle1]

Judge's high-profile killing shakes a small town

Whatever offense or wrong Stines perceived of Judge Mullins, he deserved his day in Court and not to be executed by Stines. To this date, there was no known immediate threat to Stines wife or daughter at the moment Stines shot Mullins multiple times.

He was the Sheriff -- he could have put out an APB on both of them and had them delivered to him in minutes! Maybe they(wife & kid) didn't want to be around Stines but it was foolish to blame Mullins. His own actions here seem a good indication about who was out of control. JMO

 

[OldAce]

Thanks for the updates, @arielilane ... and everyone else !!
And so we wait.

I'm wondering if we'll be surprised at the motive ?
I.e., "WHAT ?? That was all ? Stines threw his life away for that ?"
Omo.

Too much canonizing the victim, equal the opposite for Stine's.. Wife leaving, mental problem, etc.
Seems as if ground work is being laid heavily with no clear goal. Makes one wonder, except to confuse. KSP testimony; Yes, No, I do not have that. Only true verified fact in this whole case is Stines did it.

 

[arielilane]

Re:Case No. 85-P-00052

Appears that the [former] sheriff would handle sheriff sales for the Commonwealth of KY/Letcher County
Didn’t look through each public notice listed but this particular one I noticed the sheriff’s name.

PUBLIC NOTICES - The Mountain Eagle

The costs involved in this action have not yet been determined. Shawn Mickey Stines Mickey Stines, Sheriff Public Administrator of The Estate of ...

Hearing raises more questions than answers - The Mountain Eagle

A preliminary hearing for former Sheriff Mickey Stines raised more questions than answers, despite a video clip showing the moment Stines pulled the trigger of his pistol and killed Letcher District Judge Kevin R. Mullins. Those are questions that likely won’t be answered anytime soon. Special...

www.themountaineagle.com

Judge Wilhoit did not change his ruling, and the case was bound over to the grand jury. Given the notoriety of the case and the public positions that were held by the two, it is unlikely the court will seat a grand jury in Letcher County.

 

[Ladyotm]

The sheriff gave us his motive: ''They're trying to kidnap my wife and daughter.'' My theory is that he believes in some conspiracy theory like the Deep State, and thinks the judge is part of a plot to take away his wife and daughter. Otherwise how do you explain him using 'They' instead of 'He'? It's either that or domestic violence in my opinion. The sheriff is off his rocker.

I haven't been on in a few days, but I thought I read somewhere early that the sheriff had been acting "different" over the last few weeks. Am I imagining that or has something been said about his general demeanor and behavior being "off" or different in the past few weeks leading up to the killing?