Kentucky - Judge killed, sheriff arrested in Letcher County courthouse shooting - Sep. 19, 2024 # 3

[Seattle1]

When the hearing was over, Judge Rupert Wilhoit said he found probable cause to the send the case to a grand jury, a ruling Bartley objected to, saying he hoped to change the judge’s mind.
“Take your best shot,” Wilhoit said.

Bartley said the prosecution could not rebut the possibility that the shooting occurred “under extreme emotional disturbance,” and therefore did not qualify for a first-degree murder charge.

“I think they’ve established probable cause for manslaughter first and not murder. I have heard nothing today to indicates this is not an example of an extreme emotional disturbance relation to the phone,” Bartley said.

Special Prosecutor Jackie Steele referred back to the video as showing Stines shot and killed the judge intentionally, and said it does support the murder charge.

Judge Wilhoit did not change his ruling.

THE MOUNTAIN EAGLE

The Mountain Eagle

The Mountain Eagle. 19,493 likes · 635 talking about this. Newspaper for Letcher County, Ky., founded 1907.

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As I've opined before, I don't see the Grand Jury deciding any different than Judge Wilhoit, the Commonwealth, or the Special Prosecutor Steele, and handing down an Indictment for Murder-1.

Bartley's either going to have the sell that the person in the video was a Stines imposter or that he was under "extreme emotional disturbance" but either way, Stines is not walking away after shooting Mullins dead. MOO

 

[Deleted member 296739]

and handing down an Indictment for Murder-1.

If that’s the only indictment, then while the state statute posted earlier says that nothing in the section on murder and extreme emotional distress shall prevent a charge of manslaughter,

What if he’s not indicted for manslaughter, is it automatically included in the murder charge in KY? Or if he was only charged with murder and found not guilty of murder due to extreme emotional distress, would he be acquitted? I don’t understand KY law, and IANAL

 

[Chimera]

Too much canonizing the victim, equal the opposite for Stine's.. Wife leaving, mental problem, etc.
Seems as if ground work is being laid heavily with no clear goal. Makes one wonder, except to confuse. KSP testimony; Yes, No, I do not have that. Only true verified fact in this whole case is Stines did it.

Bbm.
Agreed with your final sentence.

Was not attempting to canonize the victim, Mullins.
Too early for that.

As this is a true crime discussion forum we're all speculating and that's part of the reason for posting here after reading/hearing about this horrifically evil committed by Stines.
Murder is evil; imo.
No amount of decisions laid down by the law will change it.

A manslaughter decision is doubtful at this point, unless something is revealed to change the grand juries' or judges' minds.
I wasn't aware in my post that I was canonizing anyone, merely stating a query ?
And I have stated in previous posts and with what we know so far; that Stines needs to face the brunt of the law after all is said and done.
Omo.

Canonization - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

".... declares a deceased person to be a saint and worthy of public veneration...."

 

[Chimera]

If that’s the only indictment, then while the state statute posted earlier says that nothing in the section on murder and extreme emotional distress shall prevent a charge of manslaughter,

What if he’s not indicted for manslaughter, is it automatically included in the murder charge in KY? Or if he was only charged with murder and found not guilty of murder due to extreme emotional distress, would he be acquitted? I don’t understand KY law, and IANAL

Good questions.

When I think of manslaughter, I picture a person over-imbibing and getting into a car and later killing someone.
Premeditated or not, I think that Stines went into that office intent on murder.
Although, since we still don't know -- maybe something sent him into a rage ?
Still so many questions !

Maybe no one is entirely innocent-- but Stines shot someone in cold blood.
Not self-defense and not (IMO) to protect his family-- i.e., a violent break and enter by an armed perp, etc.
Omo.

 

[Deleted member 296739]

I think that Stines went into that office intent on murder.
Although, since we still don't know -- maybe something sent him into a rage ?
Still so many questions !

I think he went in mad as heck and whatever prompted the argument and phone calls (the parts we didn’t see) might have tipped the scales and caused the sheriff to do what we did see on video- my understanding of the hearing was that the D was saying that it wasn’t murder 1, but should be considered manslaughter 1 due to the extreme emotional distress- crime of passion- but the judge said no and sent it to GJ seeking an indictment for just murder 1

At least that’s how I understand it, what I don’t know about KY law is if that’s an automatic option if someone is indicted for murder 1 or not

If not, and then if the jury agrees that it was NOT murder 1 due to the mitigating circumstances and context of what lead up to the shooting and he’s acquitted for murder 1 and NOT charged with manslaughter, then would he go free?

That’s what I don’t know/understand

 

[LadyL]

I haven't been on in a few days, but I thought I read somewhere early that the sheriff had been acting "different" over the last few weeks. Am I imagining that or has something been said about his general demeanor and behavior being "off" or different in the past few weeks leading up to the killing?

yep it's in most of the articles I think
he told someone he lost 40 lbs., he was quieter than usual, he deleted a bunch of stuff on the sheriff FB page, he was deposed in a civil trial so that may have led to his stress- there was something else too I can't remember right now

 

[Seattle1]

If that’s the only indictment, then while the state statute posted earlier says that nothing in the section on murder and extreme emotional distress shall prevent a charge of manslaughter,

What if he’s not indicted for manslaughter, is it automatically included in the murder charge in KY? Or if he was only charged with murder and found not guilty of murder due to extreme emotional distress, would he be acquitted? I don’t understand KY law, and IANAL

OK, I'm making assumptions from KY case law that Juror Instructions here would be similar:

I think if Stines is not indicted for manslaughter, it's not "automatically included in the murder charge" but I believe Manslaughter is included in the juror instructions when deciding Stines guilty verdict. See Juror Instruction- Authorized Verdict B) below.

If Stines is indicted by the Grand Jury for Murder as the KSP previously cited, and the the defense claims he was under extreme emotional disturbance, and can prove the same, Stines may be convicted on the the lesser or Manslaughter in the first degree, and saved from the death penalty.

However, the defense has a big hurdle here as pointed out by Special Prosecutor Steele as the video shows Stines killed Mullins intentionally, where intent, not premeditation, is an element to Murder under the KY Statute. The defense has already been quoted saying this was not planned but the judge was killed in the "heat of passion." This defense for mitigation of Murder falls on Stines to prove. (Unless there's something obvious on the phone that was unseen by the world but known to the State. And I don't mean a phone number). MOO

INSTRUCTION NO. 1

The law presumes a defendant to be innocent of a crime, and the indictment shall not be considered as evidence or as having any weight against him. If upon the whole case you have a reasonable doubt that the defendant is guilty, you shall find him not guilty. Any determination made by you must be unanimous and signed by the foreperson.

AUTHORIZED VERDICTS​

(A) NOT GUILTY.

or

(B) GUILTY, Murder, OR Manslaughter 1st Degree, OR Manslaughter 2nd Degree OR Reckless Homicide OR Assault 4th Degree.

Kentucky sheriff allegedly killed judge in the ‘heat of passion,’ his lawyer says

“It was not something that was planned and occurred in the heat of passion.”

nypost.com

 

[Deleted member 296739]

See Juror Instruction- Authorized Verdict B) below

Ok thanks- that makes more sense!!-

if KY follows similar procedures/jury instructions- then they could return a verdict of guilty /manslaughter - thanks for looking that up-

I seem to remember cases around my region where they were charged with and acquitted of 1st degree murder without having the option of manslaughter- so the accused walked- but IANAL and not sure how much a)laws have changed b)things vary between the various states/commonwealths c) none of those cases were as cut and dry with a clear video of the crime-

I’ll have to look up the couple cases I’m thinking of - so for now- just thinking out loud - - moo

 

[OldAce]

Bbm.
Agreed with your final sentence.

Was not attempting to canonize the victim, Mullins.
Too early for that.

As this is a true crime discussion forum we're all speculating and that's part of the reason for posting here after reading/hearing about this horrifically evil committed by Stines.
Murder is evil; imo.
No amount of decisions laid down by the law will change it.

A manslaughter decision is doubtful at this point, unless something is revealed to change the grand juries' or judges' minds.
I wasn't aware in my post that I was canonizing anyone, merely stating a query ?
And I have stated in previous posts and with what we know so far; that Stines needs to face the brunt of the law after all is said and done.
Omo.

Canonization - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

".... declares a deceased person to be a saint and worthy of public veneration...."

10,000 pardons on the canonization usage. Was the first term on top at the time. Was just expressing my impression that the vote was running heavy in his favor and the reverse on Stines in "public" opinion. Guess I lean toward any underdog at contest as in.. "Now hold on, lets have some more light". Which is a dim prospect. Again, sorry. poor presentation.

 

[Chimera]

10,000 pardons on the canonization usage. Was the first term on top at the time. Was just expressing my impression that the vote was running heavy in his favor and the reverse on Stines in "public" opinion. Guess I lean toward any underdog at contest as in.. "Now hold on, lets have some more light". Which is a dim prospect. Again, sorry. poor presentation.

Oh, no, sorry if I misspoke.
Your comment was thoughtful and interesting.
I was trying to clarify my thoughts on the subject, apologies if my post was muddled.

This is easily one of the oddest cases I've followed.
Extremely rare that this happens, in my honest opinion.
I've followed cases here and in the media for many years and I think this one is a first ?
There was a divorce case many years ago where a person shot a judge, but how often does one hear of the sheriff gunning down a judge he not only worked under, but was friends with ?
From watching the videos, it looked like a calculated move on Stines' part.
Omo.

 

[Seattle1]

How does Stines overcome the Murder charge (i.e., intent) for Manslaughter in the first degree when he did not pause when walking out the door to render aid to Mullins, to call for help, but to align himself to aim in the direction under Mullins desk, and fire off more shots at him before walking out the door.

How does Stines overcome the Murder charge for Manslaughter, acting in the heat of passion, where Mullins was unarmed, and posed no imminent danger to him.

If this was an 'imagined threat', was danger so great where Stines believed the only way to end the threat was by neutralizing Mullins right then and there? Mullins Chambers was located on the first floor of the Courthouse where the jail is beneath them, his Bailiff feet away in his courtroom, and the Sheriff's office behind them.

It's just crazy that Stines believed he could pull this off, and walk out of Chambers alive.

I think this only happens (Manslaughter conviction) if Bartley gets this case heard in Letcher County as he recently told WEKU Public Radio. For whatever reason, "Stines people" still seem to be holding firm that he did right by the county. If Mullins is being Canonized, I'd say Stines is their Martyr. JMO

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[jepop]

OK, I'm making assumptions from KY case law that Juror Instructions here would be similar:

I think if Stines is not indicted for manslaughter, it's not "automatically included in the murder charge" but I believe Manslaughter is included in the juror instructions when deciding Stines guilty verdict. See Juror Instruction- Authorized Verdict B) below.

If Stines is indicted by the Grand Jury for Murder as the KSP previously cited, and the the defense claims he was under extreme emotional disturbance, and can prove the same, Stines may be convicted on the the lesser or Manslaughter in the first degree, and saved from the death penalty.

However, the defense has a big hurdle here as pointed out by Special Prosecutor Steele as the video shows Stines killed Mullins intentionally, where intent, not premeditation, is an element to Murder under the KY Statute. The defense has already been quoted saying this was not planned but the judge was killed in the "heat of passion." This defense for mitigation of Murder falls on Stines to prove. (Unless there's something obvious on the phone that was unseen by the world but known to the State. And I don't mean a phone number). MOO

INSTRUCTION NO. 1

AUTHORIZED VERDICTS​

(A) NOT GUILTY.

or

Kentucky sheriff allegedly killed judge in the ‘heat of passion,’ his lawyer says

“It was not something that was planned and occurred in the heat of passion.”

nypost.com

Inal but that makes sense to me if Kentucky is similar to other US states where I have watched a few trials unfold. The actual charges at indictment or arraignment are found on a standard of probable cause, so imo in this case there is certainly no lack of PC to charge murder 1. At least that is what the prelim judge found, and prosecutors believe they have the goods to argue for indictment on murder 1 before a GJ. Jmo.

But as you say, and this is my limited understanding, when a jury is provided with instructions and verdict form there are usually lesser options included in case jury cannot find BARD for the primary charge but is still convinced BARD that defendant is responsible for the death of the victim. Moo.

Re the DP; in other states such as Idaho for eg, it is up to the prosecutor as to whether they will seek the DP. I do not know if this applies in Kentucky though I take a guess that it would. Also in Idaho there is separate sentencing trial to decide on DP if it is being sought. Again in Kentucky, state law may be different idk.

I think one point I want to articulate. A charge of murder 1 to be tested in court, is a separate matter to both mitigating ( and aggravating) factors that imo might be argued in court at sentencing ( if defendant eventually found guilty of murder 1 or lesser manslaughter etc ). I think some of what is being speculated here about motive may be more like what speculatively could be argued as mitigation at sentencing if that makes sense. Moo

Ie. Stines' own perception of grievance or circumstances as justifiable motive if such exist and whatever they are, shouldn't imo affect what charges are laid here (murder 1) where the victim was clearly no threat and essentially executed in cold blood,. But it might have a place in sentence mitigation. Moo

Lastly. Jmo, I think that if emotional disturbance defense involves submitting that sheriff was unable to distinguish right from wrong when he shot the judge dead, then even if this is mounted successfully in court, this is not a self defence Defense, but rather some version of NG of murder 1 by reason of insanity in the moment of the crime. In that case, jury might find for some version of manslaughter ( unintentional) but the sheriff would not, as you say, just be acquitted. Jmo

 

[jepop]

How does Stines overcome the Murder charge (i.e., intent) for Manslaughter in the first degree when he did not pause when walking out the door to render aid to Mullins, to call for help, but to align himself to aim in the direction under Mullins desk, and fire off more shots at him before walking out the door.

How does Stines overcome the Murder charge for Manslaughter, acting in the heat of passion, where Mullins was unarmed, and posed no imminent danger to him.

If this was an 'imagined threat', was danger so great where Stines believed the only way to end the threat was by neutralizing Mullins right then and there? Mullins Chambers was located on the first floor of the Courthouse where the jail is beneath them, his Bailiff feet away in his courtroom, and the Sheriff's office behind them.

It's just crazy that Stines believed he could pull this off, and walk out of Chambers alive.

I think this only happens (Manslaughter conviction) if Bartley gets this case heard in Letcher County as he recently told WEKU Public Radio. For whatever reason, "Stines people" still seem to be holding firm that he did right by the county. If Mullins is being Canonized, I'd say Stines is their Martyr. JMO

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Change of venue needed imo.

 

[LadyL]

Change of venue needed imo.

absolutely!

 

[Seattle1]

Inal but that makes sense to me if Kentucky is similar to other US states where I have watched a few trials unfold. The actual charges at indictment or arraignment are found on a standard of probable cause, so imo in this case there is certainly no lack of PC to charge murder 1. At least that is what the prelim judge found, and prosecutors believe they have the goods to argue for indictment on murder 1 before a GJ. Jmo.

^^rsbm

At the prelim hearing, Bartley argued that the prosecution could not rebut the possibility that the shooting occurred “under extreme emotional disturbance,” (not qualifying for first degree murder) in relation to the phone -- which I thought was a pretty weak argument because a phone number alone isn't reasonable to execute anybody -- let alone the sitting Judge.

I have to believe if there was evidence -- something significant on the phone of any party here supporting Manslaughter, the State would have offered somebody other than Clayton Stamper as their solo witness, and Bartley would have been more forceful pushing for Manslaughter, instead of fishing Stamper for low hanging fruit!

Bartley knows the cards we are dying to see. I expect he will do all he can to mitigate Stines charges to both avoid the DP but also avoid LWOP for murdering a "peace officer" under KY Section 507.070 (if a Judge is also considered a peace officer under State law).

Kentucky Revised Statutes | Chapter 507 - CRIMINAL HOMICIDE | Casetext

Browse Kentucky Revised Statutes | Chapter 507 - CRIMINAL HOMICIDE for free on Casetext

casetext.com

 

[Chimera]

I'm interested in what the sheriff deleted from the official FB page.
Posts about past cases ?
What else ?
Something he wanted to hide ?
Omo.

 

[Seattle1]

I'm interested in what the sheriff deleted from the official FB page.
Posts about past cases ?
What else ?
Something he wanted to hide ?
Omo.

I don't have FB but can generally view public FB pages such as MSM and LE pages. My understanding was he took down their FB page because he was concerned negative public comments would be used against him in the pending Civil lawsuit. Does the Letcher County Sheriff FB page still exist? I've seen screen shots that were mostly photos of Stines desk displaying confiscated drug busts but no specific case details.

 

[Deleted member 296739]

It's just crazy that Stines believed he could pull this off, and walk out of Chambers alive.

Maybe that’s the case- he was crazy and not in his right mind- I have no idea - the details of the case are just really really bizarre- and honestly as strange as the sheriff’s behavior- the town not condemning him or the judge is also a bit odd, at least to me, often after some one is dead or arrested then stories start to come out,

I have to assume there are some major underlying factors that outside looking in cannot see- and none of it makes sense- but small town Deep South function a bit differently - moo

 

[Ontario Mom]

Maybe that’s the case- he was crazy and not in his right mind- I have no idea - the details of the case are just really really bizarre- and honestly as strange as the sheriff’s behavior- the town not condemning him or the judge is also a bit odd, at least to me, often after some one is dead or arrested then stories start to come out,

I have to assume there are some major underlying factors that outside looking in cannot see- and none of it makes sense- but small town Deep South function a bit differently - moo

While customs & traditions might be different in the deep south, folks are the same everywhere.
My guess is, both men truly did have a good public reputation & there aren't any stories to tell.
It seems to me Stines saw something, learned something or heard something, then that day, somehow, that "thing" was confirmed in the judge's office and that flipped the rage switch in him and caused him to do something that he probably didn't even know or believe he was capable of doing.

jmo

 

[Rosiebones]

Having grown up in two small towns, Centerville and Townville, where everyone knows of everyone else, I am amazed that so little has hit the news as explanation.