Kentucky - Judge killed, sheriff arrested in Letcher County courthouse shooting - Sep. 19, 2024 # 3

[Warwick7]

In my opinion we have to be careful considering this new information.
The witness said she saw a video. Where is the video? Why wasn't the judge arrested? Or at the very least removed from the bench while an investigation was going on? Why would the Sheriff say they were trying to kidnap his wife and kid? I'm not saying it is not true. If it is true I am shocked that the judge was still on the bench.

Anymore anything is possible.
That's the creepy part in the world we live in.

 

[Rosiebones]

But, if what the witness said she saw on the video is true, why would he call his daughter and why would that make him snap and shoot the judge?

 

[tlcya]

But, if what the witness said she saw on the video is true, why would he call his daughter and why would that make him snap and shoot the judge?

exactly - especially when the Stines family AND Mickey's attorney have all denied there was any inappropriate relationship with the daughter? And how the heck would that translate into someone(s) trying to abduct wife and child?

 

[Seattle1]

Trying to understand what caused the otherwise 'good man' Stines to dine with his longtime friend, and assassinate him moments later is not likely to ever be understood! A known motive isn't necessary to indict, charge, or convict him. But I do think his defense strategy thus far of collectively throwing every theory possible at the wall (and proving none) is a good start at claiming Stines " acted under the influence of extreme emotional disturbance (EED)."

In KY, this state of mind will not acquit him of the murder we witnessed recorded in Mullins Chambers but if the Prosecution cannot prove that the defendant intentionally committed murder WITHOUT the presence of EED, the defendant's charge may be reduced to Manslaughter in the First Degree.

And this makes the difference between Stines sentenced to death or spending his life in prison. A Manslaughter conviction would be a huge win for the defense. Again, the burden here is on the Commonwealth.

IMO, the defense can keep pulling from that kitchen sink and claim the accumulation put him under the influence of EED, and a jury of his peers is likely going to find likeable Stines guilty of Manslaughter in the first degree pursuant to the KY statute for Murder.

Murder, Homicide, Assault, and Mental State - Louisville Kentucky Law Firm

Law Blog - The mental state of a criminal defendant can seriously affect the outcome of a criminal case. In fact, it can be determinative. Mental state is so

louisvillefirm.com

 

[LadyL]

exactly - especially when the Stines family AND Mickey's attorney have all denied there was any inappropriate relationship with the daughter? And how the heck would that translate into someone(s) trying to abduct wife and child?

did he say the word 'abduct' or 'kidnap'? or did he say the word 'take' and the people who heard it figured he meant abduct/kidnap?
he could've used the word 'take' meaning they were trying to break up his family or something similar
I'm still confused by that

 

[Seattle1]

did he say the word 'abduct' or 'kidnap'? or did he say the word 'take' and the people who heard it figured he meant abduct/kidnap?
he could've used the word 'take' meaning they were trying to break up his family or something similar
I'm still confused by that

He said "Kidnap."

While we don't have a sticky on WS, the MEDIA ONLY thread is a good resource for this type of question.

From the transcript of the prelim hearing:

DEFENSE - And at some point, did you draw any observations as to his demeanor?

DETECTIVE - He was mostly calm, I thought, I mean, I talked to him, but not... he didn't say nothing about why this had happened, but he was calm. He was kind of afraid that... basically all he said was 'treat me fair', that's basically the comments he made.

DEFENSE - Did he also make a statement about... I didn't see it in the citation, somewhere along the lines of a statement being true to him about protecting his family?

DETECTIVE - He was.. I wasn't present, but when he.. when he was taken into custody, I was told by one of the other officers that were there, that he made a comment 'they're trying to kidnap my wife and kid'.

Post in thread 'KY, Judge Kevin Mullins killed, sheriff arrested, Letcher County courthouse shooting - Sep. 19, 2024 MEDIA, MAPS, & TIMELINE**NO DISCUSSION**'

Oct 3, 2024

• Seattle1

• 

 

[INfisherman]

I can never find a media thread. Can you link to this one? I searched and see nothing that says media thread in the forum.

Hi LadyL,

Click/tap the link at the bottom of the post above from @Seattle1 which takes you to another thread. Within that thread the word HEARING (PROBABLE CAUSE HEARING) has a link which takes you to YouTube if you click/tap on it. It’s a Court TV video of the preliminary hearing & the above is quoted from that hearing, around the 48:02 mark from the video transcript.

ETA video time marker

 

[LadyL]

Hi LadyL,

Click/tap the link at the bottom of the post above from @Seattle1 which takes you to another thread. Within that thread the word HEARING (PROBABLE CAUSE HEARING) has a link which takes you to YouTube if you click/tap on it. It’s a Court TV video of the preliminary hearing & the above is quoted from that hearing, around the 48:02 mark from the video transcript.

ETA video time marker

I came across it just as you were typing. Thank you.

 

[Angelcat13]

He said "Kidnap."

While we don't have a sticky on WS, the MEDIA ONLY thread is a good resource for this type of question.

From the transcript of the prelim hearing:

DEFENSE - And at some point, did you draw any observations as to his demeanor?

DETECTIVE - He was mostly calm, I thought, I mean, I talked to him, but not... he didn't say nothing about why this had happened, but he was calm. He was kind of afraid that... basically all he said was 'treat me fair', that's basically the comments he made.

DEFENSE - Did he also make a statement about... I didn't see it in the citation, somewhere along the lines of a statement being true to him about protecting his family?

DETECTIVE - He was.. I wasn't present, but when he.. when he was taken into custody, I was told by one of the other officers that were there, that he made a comment 'they're trying to kidnap my wife and kid'.

Post in thread 'KY, Judge Kevin Mullins killed, sheriff arrested, Letcher County courthouse shooting - Sep. 19, 2024 MEDIA, MAPS, & TIMELINE**NO DISCUSSION**'

Oct 3, 2024

• Seattle1

• 

I apologize if I misunderstood your post, but IMO the quote you posted does NOT confirm that MS said or didn’t say “Kidnap”.

The phrase (from your post) says, “DETECTIVE - He was.. I wasn't present, but when he.. when he was taken into custody, I was told by one of the other officers that were there, that he made a comment 'they're trying to kidnap my wife and kid'.”

Rather the Detective says that he “wasn’t present” but he was TOLD by one of the other officers that the Sheriff SAID “kidnap”.

This doesn’t definitively say that the Sheriff said “kidnap”.

 

[Seattle1]

I can never find a media thread. Can you link to this one? I searched and see nothing that says media thread in the forum.

On the first page of every single discussion thread, WS Admin lists the links to the prior thread numbers and also links the MEDIA, MAPS, TIMELINE, *No DISCUSSION* THREAD. I've been here since 2013 and it hasn't moved. Page one, check it out!

MEDIA, MAPS, TIMELINE *NO DISCUSSION* THREAD

Thread #1
Thread #2

 

[INfisherman]

I apologize if I misunderstood your post, but IMO the quote you posted does NOT confirm that MS said or didn’t say “Kidnap”.

The phrase (from your post) says, “DETECTIVE - He was.. I wasn't present, but when he.. when he was taken into custody, I was told by one of the other officers that were there, that he made a comment 'they're trying to kidnap my wife and kid'.”

Rather the Detective says that he “wasn’t present” but he was TOLD by one of the other officers that the Sheriff SAID “kidnap”.

This doesn’t definitively say that the Sheriff said “kidnap”.

Under sworn testimony he said that, yes. Do you have reason to believe the detective was lying under oath in front of Stines’ attorney?

 

[Seattle1]

I apologize if I misunderstood your post, but IMO the quote you posted does NOT confirm that MS said or didn’t say “Kidnap”.

The phrase (from your post) says, “DETECTIVE - He was.. I wasn't present, but when he.. when he was taken into custody, I was told by one of the other officers that were there, that he made a comment 'they're trying to kidnap my wife and kid'.”

Rather the Detective says that he “wasn’t present” but he was TOLD by one of the other officers that the Sheriff SAID “kidnap”.

This doesn’t definitively say that the Sheriff said “kidnap”.

Detective Stamper was the only witness called to give testimony at the preliminary hearing and where the KY Rules of Criminal Procedure allow hearsay evidence during the preliminary hearing. To be clear, Stamper was allowed to testify under oath what he was told by another officer or that Stines said "they're trying to kidnap my wife and kid."

This has been widely reported numerous times -- citing the preliminary hearing as the source.
ETA: add MSM link

https://www.cnn.com/2024/10/01/us/kentucky-judge-murder-stines-hearing/index.html

 

[Angelcat13]

Under sworn testimony he said that, yes. Do you have reason to believe the detective was lying under oath in front of Stines’ attorney?

I am not saying that the detective was lying, I am just saying that he is only stating what he was TOLD Stines said. Stines may or may not have said those exact words, but it is important to keep in mind that unless there is direct evidence that these were Stines’ exact words, there is IMO still some question if this was what was actually said or someone’s interpretation of what was said.

IIRC there was even a question about the detective being allowed to state what he was told by someone else as this could be considered hearsay.

 

[sunspun]

I am not saying that the detective was lying, I am just saying that he is only stating what he was TOLD Stines said. Stines may or may not have said those exact words, but it is important to keep in mind that unless there is direct evidence that these were Stines’ exact words, there is IMO still some question if this was what was actually said or someone’s interpretation of what was said.

IIRC there was even a question about the detective being allowed to state what he was told by someone else as this could be considered hearsay.

It is certainly hearsay. But as the previous poster above informed you, "... KY Rules of Criminal Procedure allow hearsay evidence during the preliminary hearing." (from @Seattle1 's post, ty)

 

[INfisherman]

I am not saying that the detective was lying, I am just saying that he is only stating what he was TOLD Stines said. Stines may or may not have said those exact words, but it is important to keep in mind that unless there is direct evidence that these were Stines’ exact words, there is IMO still some question if this was what was actually said or someone’s interpretation of what was said.

IIRC there was even a question about the detective being allowed to state what he was told by someone else as this could be considered hearsay.

I understand. I wasn’t trying to be rude - apologies if it came across as such. Regardless of the hearsay concern, (ignoring since it’s allowed in KY pretrials) I assume since there were no objections by the defense, there isn’t much concern or doubt it was said. Would that be a fair conclusion?

JMO

ETA assumption/conclusiom

 

[Angelcat13]

I understand. I wasn’t trying to be rude - apologies if it came across as such. Regardless of the hearsay concern, (ignoring since it’s allowed in KY pretrials) I assume since there were no objections by the defense, there isn’t much concern or doubt it was said. Would that be a fair conclusion?

JMO

ETA assumption/conclusiom

You were not being rude, and I appreciate your comment because you are definitely correct in that it was acknowledged to be heresay, which was legally allowed at that point. The lack of objection by the defense could be considered an acknowledgment that this was an accurate statement, it could be that they didn’t object because it was an allowable statement under KY law or so the defense can possibly make an issue of this statement at a later point…or some other reason that I haven’t thought of yet.

 

[Seattle1]

You were not being rude, and I appreciate your comment because you are definitely correct in that it was acknowledged to be heresay, which was legally allowed at that point. The lack of objection by the defense could be considered an acknowledgment that this was an accurate statement, it could be that they didn’t object because it was an allowable statement under KY law or so the defense can possibly make an issue of this statement at a later point…or some other reason that I haven’t thought of yet.

To be clear, this is about a statement by Stines being true to him about protecting his family.
It also appears to me that OP does not understand that it was Stines Defense Attorney Bartley (identified as "Defense" on the transcript) who was questioning "Detective" Stamper where Bartley himself elicited the 'kidnap' hearsay response from Stamper that the defense wanted on the record! I truly don't know what more can be added here on this subject of what Stines said since it does not appear on the citation. Respectfully, I suggest OP rewatch the recorded preliminary hearing.

 

[INfisherman]

To be clear, this is about a statement by Stines being true to him about protecting his family.
It also appears to me that OP does not understand that it was Stines Defense Attorney Bartley (identified as "Defense" on the transcript) who was questioning "Detective" Stamper where Bartley himself elicited the 'kidnap' hearsay response from Stamper that the defense wanted on the record! I truly don't know what more can be added here on this subject of what Stines said since it does not appear on the citation. Respectfully, I suggest OP rewatch the recorded preliminary hearing.

Admittedly I didn’t realize that either - glossed right over what you posted. Thank you for clarifying. I’ll go back to minding my squirrels.

 

[tlcya]

MOO two cents, Stines said something when surrendering to custody that indicated he thought someone (they) were trying to remove his family from him. Maybe he used the word abduct, maybe he used the word kidnap, maybe he simply used the word take. Maybe he used the word family, maybe he used the words wife and child, or wife and daughter.

What we heard was simply paraphrasing of what another officer may have also paraphrased. So I m not putting too much stock in the exact words Stamper used because they are his impression of yet another's impression of what the sheriff said or meant. JMO

 

[PrairieWind]

did he say the word 'abduct' or 'kidnap'? or did he say the word 'take' and the people who heard it figured he meant abduct/kidnap?
he could've used the word 'take' meaning they were trying to break up his family or something similar
I'm still confused by that

I don't think we know. I believe this comment we hear was the one obtained at the hearing and that was double hearsay. I have said that people should be cautious trying to parse those words because we don't know for sure that those were the words used, or really the context.