Kentucky - Judge killed, sheriff arrested in Letcher County courthouse shooting - Sep. 19, 2024 # 4

[fred&edna]

The fact is, both Judge Kevin Mullins and Sheriff Mickey Stines held positions that made a lot of people mad, and for people in those positions there will always be rumors of wrongdoing, whether or not they’re true. And there will always be people looking to gain something – freedom or money – by telling police what they want to hear.

If someone out there has proof of the rumors they’re spreading, we’d love to see it. Unless and until that happens, all we can do is wait.
Courthouse murder case shows why we won’t print social media ‘reports’ without verification - The Mountain Eagle

The Mountain Eagle has been a go to news source for me since this case first broke. And the above is one of the reasons.

i'm certain of two things...

corruption has existed in many positions for many years, and... the gossip of the gullible is non-stop

jmo

 

[PrairieWind]

i'm certain of two things...

corruption has existed in many positions for many years, and... the gossip of the gullible is non-stop

jmo

The problem is how do you differentiate between the gossip of the gullible and the claims of those victims that long had to keep quiet?

 

[CSIDreamer]

The problem is how do you differentiate between the gossip of the gullible and the claims of those victims that long had to keep quiet?

With separate KSP interviews and investigations. JMO

 

[fred&edna]

With separate KSP interviews and investigations. JMO

and... with enormous hope that all investigators have moral character and are trustworthy.

jmo

 

[fred&edna]

the first inkling that people must not believe everything stated was demonstrated in the initial rumor that ran like a rampant wildfire when stines shot mullins.

jmo

 

[OldAce]

The fact is, both Judge Kevin Mullins and Sheriff Mickey Stines held positions that made a lot of people mad, and for people in those positions there will always be rumors of wrongdoing, whether or not they’re true. And there will always be people looking to gain something – freedom or money – by telling police what they want to hear.

If someone out there has proof of the rumors they’re spreading, we’d love to see it. Unless and until that happens, all we can do is wait.
Courthouse murder case shows why we won’t print social media ‘reports’ without verification - The Mountain Eagle

The Mountain Eagle has been a go to news source for me since this case first broke. And the above is one of the reasons.

There were so many, would you refresh me on the one you refer to?

On the Mountain Eagle. I took it's offer of $1.00 for ? days. Saw nothing in it that was not already posted and pretty thoroughly discussed here.

 

[fred&edna]

i found the questions asked by grand jury members very interesting and maybe a bit... insightful.

jmo

 

[OneLove]

i found the questions asked by grand jury members very interesting and maybe a bit... insightful.

jmo

Do tell more?

 

[fred&edna]

Do tell more?

i don't have anything more to tell. i wasn't speaking as if i had some inside secret/knowledge... sorry, if i gave that impression. it's just my opinion from reading the docs as grand jurors were very, very curious about stines' mental health and specifically requested documentation.

jmo

 

[LadyL]

dbm already addressed

 

[LadyL]

what confuses me and of course we won't know for sure unless provided with the medical report which won't happen, is this: IF as the defense attorney suggests, the Dr. visit report from the day prior to the shooting says very clearly the man who was the top LEO in the county was experiencing active psychosis, why in the H E double hockey sticks was he still walking around with access to weapons???

Does a physician have any sort of legal duty to report such findings in a circumstance like this?

I wonder if there was a plan in place to institutionalize him and it just couldn't happen fast enough. I don't know what the doctor's legal duty would have been.

 

[LadyL]

There were so many, would you refresh me on the one you refer to?

On the Mountain Eagle. I took it's offer of $1.00 for ? days. Saw nothing in it that was not already posted and pretty thoroughly discussed here.

she was quoting the article that she linked

 

[OneLove]

i don't have anything more to tell. i wasn't speaking as if i had some inside secret/knowledge... sorry, if i gave that impression. it's just my opinion from reading the docs as grand jurors were very, very curious about stines' mental health and specifically requested documentation.

jmo

Thank you. I wonder if the grand jury's request for documentation on his mental health indicates it's more likely to be allowed to be presented at trial?

 

[fred&edna]

i wonder how much evidence pillersdorf had against others that he didn't go after.in legal filings. or maybe he didn't look for evidence against others.

jmo

 

[fred&edna]

Thank you. I wonder if the grand jury's request for documentation on his mental health indicates it's more likely to be allowed to be presented at trial?

hmmm... that seems like a question a ws verified attorney might be able to answer.

 

[Izzylizzy]

 

[mmeynstyn]

what confuses me and of course we won't know for sure unless provided with the medical report which won't happen, is this: IF as the defense attorney suggests, the Dr. visit report from the day prior to the shooting says very clearly the man who was the top LEO in the county was experiencing active psychosis, why in the H E double hockey sticks was he still walking around with access to weapons???

Does a physician have any sort of legal duty to report such findings in a circumstance like this?

Thank you. My thoughts exactly. Was he on duty that day? The doctor knew he was a Sheriff and did not suggest he was unfit for duty?

I know it is not the same thing; but, gosh, a friend of mine was diagnosis with manic depression and was unable to work for 6 weeks while they worked on proper dosage of meds.

 

[Cryptic]

Or another way of looking at official capacity suits is the concept of 'deep pockets'. You sue the employers of those working in an official capacity because they are likely to have access to $$$$, hence deeper pockets than people being sued in a personal capacity. So Sherriff Stines would have been deposed in his official capacity in an effort to show that the sins of the deputy were not only personal but also linked to possibly poor control by those in charge of him in a work situation.

I fully agree with you regarding lawsuits and deep pockets.

But..... this case could go against the grain of lawsuit SOP for the following reasons:

1. The employer in this case has Sovereign Immunity. They can only be used if they waive their immunity. Any waiving of immunity can be retracted or modified at any time for any reason. Likewise, any jury verdicts are non binding / advisory only. The Sovereign can choose to adhere to them in totality, in part, or not at all.

2. With their employers being Sovereigns, some attorneys will target law enforcement officers in their personal capacity. They don't have deep pockets, but some may have insurance policies for these types of lawsuits that may give quick settlements- if the amount asked for is not too large. Shakedowns for quick settlements is also a lawsuit SOP.

So..... whether or not that lawsuit was following lawsuit SOP (sue deep pockets, Stines is deposed in his official capacity) could depend on whether the Sovereign waived their immunity or not.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I wonder if there was a plan in place to institutionalize him and it just couldn't happen fast enough. I don't know what the doctor's legal duty would have been.

If the Doctor/Psychologist thought a patient was a legitimate immediate danger to himself or others, he is mandated to disclose that, followed often by ordering a 5150 hold (even if they are LE officers):

<snipped>

For a 5150 hold to be initiated, an individual must meet one of three specific criteria due to a mental disorder.

These include being a danger to oneself, often involving suicidal threats or actions that place the person in serious physical danger.

Another criterion is being a danger to others, indicated by threats or attempts to inflict bodily harm.

Finally, an individual may be placed on a 5150 hold if they are “gravely disabled,” meaning they are unable to provide for their basic personal needs such as food, clothing, or shelter.

JMO

What Qualifies for a 5150 Involuntary Hold?

 

[LadyL]

If the Doctor/Psychologist thought a patient was a legitimate immediate danger to himself or others, he is mandated to disclose that, followed often by ordering a 5150 hold (even if they are LE officers):

<snipped>

For a 5150 hold to be initiated, an individual must meet one of three specific criteria due to a mental disorder.

These include being a danger to oneself, often involving suicidal threats or actions that place the person in serious physical danger.

Another criterion is being a danger to others, indicated by threats or attempts to inflict bodily harm.

Finally, an individual may be placed on a 5150 hold if they are “gravely disabled,” meaning they are unable to provide for their basic personal needs such as food, clothing, or shelter.

JMO

What Qualifies for a 5150 Involuntary Hold?

We don't know if he met those criteria though.