KS KS - Lori Heimer 57, murdered in her Saline County home, 25 Jun 2016

[SeesSeas]

Unfortunately, there are a lot of false arrests and many wrongful convictions.

Look up an arrest in any jurisdiction and then compare the arrest charges to the actual filed charges that are prosecuted by the state. You’ll find cases where the state does not pursue prosecution of many of the crimes the person was originally arrested for.

About the kidnapping, it could be as simple as a witness told LE that JJB held them against their will.

Without access to the court records, we don’t know if JJB or the men who harbored him have any additional charges beyond the date of arrest. Jail websites are not a good source for information other than a Snapshot of the arrest.

About the ATTEMPTED CAPITAL MURDER charge, see below KS statute excerpt. Section 6 could be the reason for this particular charge -- because JJB had allegedly harmed TWO people during one incident on July 3. One was seriously harmed (stabbed in the torso); the other minimally harmed (stabbed in the hand). Because there was intentional injury “of more than one person as a part of the same act” on July 3, that may be why LE included the Attempted Capital Murder Charge.

Also, the July 1 incident where JJB allegedly severed the finger of another person… this could be perceived as “two or more acts or transactions connected together or constituting parts of a common scheme or course of conduct.”

http://kslegislature.org/li/b2015_1..._article/021_054_0001_section/021_054_0001_k/
21-5401. Capital murder. (a) Capital murder is the:
(6) intentional and premeditated killing of more than one person as a part of the same act or transaction or in two or more acts or transactions connected together or constituting parts of a common scheme or course of conduct;

News references:
http://www.salina.com/crime/salina-man-ordered-to-trial-on-attempted-murder-aggravated-battery/article_12161efd-c338-5f49-bb8b-162f65cbc39f.html
http://www.salina.com/crime/stabbin...cle_0c6fa3d9-c20d-5d64-9422-15e287749dee.html

To reiterate – LE doesn’t seem to think JJB had anything to do with Lori’s murder.

Hmmmm.....ok. This makes a bit of sense even though it smacks of an illegal arrest but allow me to explain.

Since JJB was arrested and booked on the 4th and they hadn't yet interviewed him (even though they did seize 5 swords from his home and a machete the night before in a field where he was subsequently arrested) nor had they had a chance to do blood work or any other form of analysis, they may have thought, at the time JJB was going to be good for LH' s murder, thus charging him with: 1).Murder in the 1st degree, Intentional and premeditated
2).A Capital Murder; Kidnapping
( not entirely sure how that fits in)

??????????? I am speculating about the above. I am NOT saying that with ANY certainty.

The remaining charges are why he was picked up in the first place:

Aggravated Battery: Knowingly causing great bodily harm (yes, that fits for the man he stabbed several days earlier and for what he is currently on trial for)

And. .Aggravated Battery, knowingly use of deadly weapon
(that too fits with the man he stabbed and is currently on trial for).

It doesn't seem quite right that police can throw everything but the kitchen sink at someone they've arrested while not having some sort of evidence that could/would support that charge. But after finding the weapons, maybe that gave police all they needed to arrest him for Murder: premeditated and intentional. And Capital Murder: Kidnapping (What??!!! What hat did they pull that charge out of)

Certainly they had enough evidence for the stabbing of the Salina man to hold him over w/out the premeditated murder charge and the Capitol murder charge. That smacks of an illegal arrest based on......what?

Also, the 2 men that were arrested for harboring JJB did not have additional charges tacked onto their arrests.

I am still unsure of this whole mess.
They should have some firm knowledge regarding this murder
by now. And even though they are saying it's not a cold case yet, I'm feeling a definite chill.

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[glf]

Nothin" new.

 

[Razz]

Unfortunately, there are a lot of false arrests and many wrongful convictions.

Look up an arrest in any jurisdiction and then compare the arrest charges to the actual filed charges that are prosecuted by the state. You’ll find cases where the state does not pursue prosecution of many of the crimes the person was originally arrested for.

About the kidnapping, it could be as simple as a witness told LE that JJB held them against their will.

Without access to the court records, we don’t know if JJB or the men who harbored him have any additional charges beyond the date of arrest. Jail websites are not a good source for information other than a Snapshot of the arrest.

About the ATTEMPTED CAPITAL MURDER charge, see below KS statute excerpt. Section 6 could be the reason for this particular charge -- because JJB had allegedly harmed TWO people during one incident on July 3. One was seriously harmed (stabbed in the torso); the other minimally harmed (stabbed in the hand). Because there was intentional injury “of more than one person as a part of the same act” on July 3, that may be why LE included the Attempted Capital Murder Charge.

Also, the July 1 incident where JJB allegedly severed the finger of another person… this could be perceived as “two or more acts or transactions connected together or constituting parts of a common scheme or course of conduct.”

http://kslegislature.org/li/b2015_1..._article/021_054_0001_section/021_054_0001_k/
21-5401. Capital murder. (a) Capital murder is the:
(6) intentional and premeditated killing of more than one person as a part of the same act or transaction or in two or more acts or transactions connected together or constituting parts of a common scheme or course of conduct;

News references:
http://www.salina.com/crime/salina-man-ordered-to-trial-on-attempted-murder-aggravated-battery/article_12161efd-c338-5f49-bb8b-162f65cbc39f.html
http://www.salina.com/crime/stabbin...cle_0c6fa3d9-c20d-5d64-9422-15e287749dee.html

To reiterate – LE doesn’t seem to think JJB had anything to do with Lori’s murder.

SeesSeas-Thank you for explaining this in a way I can understand.

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[Razz]

I have been banging my head all day on the murder of Lori. I am having a difficult time thinking outside of the box.

Assuming it was outsiders that came to her place expecting to take the dogs or steal cash:

Why would people, who aren't terribly familiar with the area, pick Lori' s Poodle Patch?

How could they know for certain her husband wouldn't be home and that she would be alone? How did they figure that their trucks wouldn't be seen? Did they come with the tool(s) used to murder her or was murdering her something they didn't count on. Did she surprise them with a fury "they" hadn't expected when it became clear she wasn't going to give the dogs up easily?

Since the McPherson Sentinel wrote "they" as in witnesses to the vehicles, does that make it more likely it was someone she didn't know.

Could the trucks have just been in the area, having nothing to do with Lori's murder?

Could the trucks be red herrings? No doubt the police don't think so....or are the police using them as red herrings to take the public's eyes off who they are really looking at.

Sorry. Thinking out loud. Somebody somewhere knows something.





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[glf]

Yes, and I agree, somebody, somewhere knows something. Which is one reason JJB stays in the back of my mind. I tend to believe he has a bad reputation, acquaintances are afraid of him, as well as people in the area. Just because he's in jail doesn't necessarily mean he couldn't find out who talked...

 

[terry67401]

I have been banging my head all day on the murder of Lori. I am having a difficult time thinking outside of the box.

Assuming it was outsiders that came to her place expecting to take the dogs or steal cash:

Why would people, who aren't terribly familiar with the area, pick Lori' s Poodle Patch?

How could they know for certain her husband wouldn't be home and that she would be alone? How did they figure that their trucks wouldn't be seen? Did they come with the tool(s) used to murder her or was murdering her something they didn't count on. Did she surprise them with a fury "they" hadn't expected when it became clear she wasn't going to give the dogs up easily?

Since the McPherson Sentinel wrote "they" as in witnesses to the vehicles, does that make it more likely it was someone she didn't know.

Could the trucks have just been in the area, having nothing to do with Lori's murder?

Could the trucks be red herrings? No doubt the police don't think so....or are the police using them as red herrings to take the public's eyes off who they are really looking at.

Sorry. Thinking out loud. Somebody somewhere knows something.





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I like your thinking, Razz. Some great questions to ponder.


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[Spellbound]

Am I allowed to post this flyer? It came from the FB page "Answers, Prayers, and Support for Lori Heimer and Family"

 

[Razz]

Again, thinking out loud and assuming the trucks were involved:

What dognapper is going to take 2 trucks to steal some dogs? And who is going to put yapping dogs in the back of an open air truck and travel several hundred miles? That is absolutely bazaar.

The nappers, now turned murderers, had no way of knowing when Lori would be discovered. Would anyone take the chance of driving 2 clunkers anywhere much less to KC where the trucks could be easily hunted down by police?

And.....how was the dognapper planning on gassing up the vehicle with blood on them?

And if these so called nappers were smart enough to use a phone or email that couldn't be traced, wouldn't you think they'd have thought to drive a different, more yapping dog friendly car, than 2 easily identifiable trucks? Say a big SUV where dogs could not be seen or heard? Or at least air conditioned to make the trip back to KC or wherever a bit more comfortable and less conspicuous out on a well traveled highway?

This doesn't appear to be smart planning. But....smart enough to get away with murder?

If JJB was not involved, what a stroke of luck for the murdering perp(s) that a homicidal maniac with a penchant for all kinds of swords would, less than a week later go around stabbing people for no apparent reason in the general vicinity of Lori's murder. And one who was being housed by some local boys who live in that area. And one up the road from Lori's who had to know about her Poodle Patch and the money making machine it was?

So, who are the witnesses who saw these vehicles?

What a bunch of coincidental happenings all within a week of each other. And in the same town! Either this murderer is extremely lucky, or maybe not as lucky as one would think.

I think police could be on to whoever did this and they're waiting on....something.





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[glf]

I have two theories on the vehicles. Either, as Razz stated, why drive around in something that is going to stick out like a sore thumb? On the other hand, alot of people are like me...yuck! I'd rather walk than drive that piece of junk around! And never give it another thought if I hadn't heard about their possible connection to a crime. The flatbed wouldn't interest me at all: they're ugly. And an early 90's PU wouldn't interest me unless it was nice and maybe was a color I really like or had a special paint job. I know alot about cars, because they really interest me. PU's, some interest, but really would have to be a Chevy to get my full attention. One all beat up would probably just irritate me!

 

[Razz]

I have two theories on the vehicles. Either, as Razz stated, why drive around in something that is going to stick out like a sore thumb? On the other hand, alot of people are like me...yuck! I'd rather walk than drive that piece of junk around! And never give it another thought if I hadn't heard about their possible connection to a crime. The flatbed wouldn't interest me at all: they're ugly. And an early 90's PU wouldn't interest me unless it was nice and maybe was a color I really like or had a special paint job. I know alot about cars, because they really interest me. PU's, some interest, but really would have to be a Chevy to get my full attention. One all beat up would probably just irritate me!

I hear you glf. But I'm kind of the opposite. I'd be thinking, who in this day and age would be driving some gas guzzling, unairconditioned beat up old truck? And in the heat of July? And on a dirt road? And later on a highway?( I'm assuming the windows were open because of the detailed description of the men driving the trucks. So I may be wrong about this.)

And.....if they weren't locals, wouldn't they maybe need a GPS?

Doesn't sound like the trucks are new enough to have one installed.
So maybe a GPS on a phone?

And of course, I may be once again diving down a rabbit hole. These "trucks" may not be involved at all.

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[glf]

I had to smile at what you wrote! I have said since I started driving, air conditioning and a tape player were not luxuries, they are necessities!
I know my daughter's phone has GPS. And hers isn't an expensive phone.
It only seems right to think these PU's are involved, since they stuck out like a sore thumb in Assaria. And, I think so, too. But what if,after the murder, they drove to cousin Joe's house, parked them in a barn, and left Kansas in a bug? Nobody would be the wiser...

 

[Razz]

I had to smile at what you wrote! I have said since I started driving, air conditioning and a tape player were not luxuries, they are necessities!
I know my daughter's phone has GPS. And hers isn't an expensive phone.
It only seems right to think these PU's are involved, since they stuck out like a sore thumb in Assaria. And, I think so, too. But what if,after the murder, they drove to cousin Joe's house, parked them in a barn, and left Kansas in a bug? Nobody would be the wiser...

Not if they were there to steal dogs.
2 vehicles for a heist or murder is too darn risky.

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[glf]

I don't think the family has ever said if any dogs were stolen or not.

 

[Razz]

I don't think the family has ever said if any dogs were stolen or not.

No, I know. I am suggesting that perhaps that was their intent.

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[glf]

Nothing new concerning Lori in Salina Post.

 

[SeesSeas]

I spent some time today ‘travelling’ around central Kansas…. Google Earth style!

My take on the two older beat-up trucks reported to have been seen in the vicinity of Lori’s home on the day she was murdered is this: I don’t think the old trucks seemed out of place, especially during harvest time.

I live in an area that is a mix of suburban residential and rural farms. The suburban areas have predominately newer vehicles. The rural areas have a lot of older vehicles, including many “beat-up” trucks. In farmland, most people don’t use shiny new trucks.

Today I decided to travel Assaria and Gypsum via Google Earth Street View. Imagery Date is 3/2014.

I instinctively started my travel in Assaria at the SE section of what appeared to be rows of houses in a small neighborhood. This is NW of Lori’s address.

I landed here: 460 E Kansas St – 38*40’43.50” N 97*35’51.66” W
This appears to be the edge of a field/farm and there is an older truck facing forward. The truck has an open-bed trailer attached. Nearby is a tractor.

I then ‘drove’ around the area and quickly came across a lot of trucks, some newer trucks, some older trucks, and many are “beat up”. Probably 50% trucks, 50% cars.

I then ‘drove’ to Lori’s address. Imagery Date is 5/2014.

Not far from Lori’s house, I travelled down E Lapsley Rd to Lakeside Family Resort, (Lakeside Recreational Park), and saw some parked RVs and campers, along with 3 trucks, 1 car and 1 van.

In Gypsum, at the corner of 7[SUP]th[/SUP] St and Hawkes St, I found an old red pick-up truck bed converted into a trailer. Imagery Date 5/2014. << I guess this isn’t that unusual, because in Gypsum I saw two more of these converted p/u beds into trailers… a blue one and a green one.

In Gypsum, at 301 KS-4 (MAPLE ST), Imagery Date 6/2014, there is a beat-up Chevy maroon pickup truck that has a silver grill, but the front bumper appears to be silver (not white). The side mirrors appear to be wide-style?

This is what was reported as a vehicle of interest:
http://www.kwch.com/content/news/As...rities-asking-for-information--384756651.html
An older flatbed pickup truck, possibly a Chevrolet, which is “beat-up”, maroon in color, white front bumper, silver grill, wide-style side mirrors

So there you have it – that was my Sunday destination… travelling through lovely Kansas farmland. The only Kansas city I have visited is Olathe in 2001. Olathe means ‘beautiful’, and yes, Olathe is beautiful.

 

[Razz]

I spent some time today ‘travelling’ around central Kansas…. Google Earth style!

My take on the two older beat-up trucks reported to have been seen in the vicinity of Lori’s home on the day she was murdered is this: I don’t think the old trucks seemed out of place, especially during harvest time.

I live in an area that is a mix of suburban residential and rural farms. The suburban areas have predominately newer vehicles. The rural areas have a lot of older vehicles, including many “beat-up” trucks. In farmland, most people don’t use shiny new trucks.

Today I decided to travel Assaria and Gypsum via Google Earth Street View. Imagery Date is 3/2014.

I instinctively started my travel in Assaria at the SE section of what appeared to be rows of houses in a small neighborhood. This is NW of Lori’s address.

I landed here: 460 E Kansas St – 38*40’43.50” N 97*35’51.66” W
This appears to be the edge of a field/farm and there is an older truck facing forward. The truck has an open-bed trailer attached. Nearby is a tractor.

I then ‘drove’ around the area and quickly came across a lot of trucks, some newer trucks, some older trucks, and many are “beat up”. Probably 50% trucks, 50% cars.

I then ‘drove’ to Lori’s address. Imagery Date is 5/2014.

Not far from Lori’s house, I travelled down E Lapsley Rd to Lakeside Family Resort, (Lakeside Recreational Park), and saw some parked RVs and campers, along with 3 trucks, 1 car and 1 van.

In Gypsum, at the corner of 7[SUP]th[/SUP] St and Hawkes St, I found an old red pick-up truck bed converted into a trailer. Imagery Date 5/2014. << I guess this isn’t that unusual, because in Gypsum I saw two more of these converted p/u beds into trailers… a blue one and a green one.

In Gypsum, at 301 KS-4 (MAPLE ST), Imagery Date 6/2014, there is a beat-up Chevy maroon pickup truck that has a silver grill, but the front bumper appears to be silver (not white). The side mirrors appear to be wide-style?

This is what was reported as a vehicle of interest:
http://www.kwch.com/content/news/As...rities-asking-for-information--384756651.html
An older flatbed pickup truck, possibly a Chevrolet, which is “beat-up”, maroon in color, white front bumper, silver grill, wide-style side mirrors

So there you have it – that was my Sunday destination… travelling through lovely Kansas farmland. The only Kansas city I have visited is Olathe in 2001. Olathe means ‘beautiful’, and yes, Olathe is beautiful.

Great work SeesSeas. I hope you will forward the Google pic to police.

I have gone through 18 of the 1st pages on this thread and no where does it say how the KBI gleaned the information regarding these vehicles.

Where did the news of the vehicles originate from?! Does anyone know?
There is the article from the McPherson Sentinel but there has to be more info from the local papers?!

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[glf]

Razz, and everybody if you get back to Kansas, visit Topeka. Beautiful old town, a lot of stately grand older homes, state capital. Look at Sun. Salina Post and check out the article on Abilene. That is where Dwight Eisenhower lived.

 

[Razz]

Razz, and everybody if you get back to Kansas, visit Topeka. Beautiful old town, a lot of stately grand older homes, state capital. Look at Sun. Salina Post and check out the article on Abilene. That is where Dwight Eisenhower lived.

The Post won't let me on. I keep getting "error' messages.

I was born and raised in Salina.
Worked in Topeka near the Capitol for 5 years. Loved Abilene. I never thought of the area as beautiful but you are right, it is. Been away for many years now but I know all those back roads like the back of my hand. I am sure that is why this particular case has hit me so hard.

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[glf]

Yeah, I left SE Kan in 11/15. I just feel like a misplaced Kansan here in Texas! When I get on the Post, I just type in Salina Post, and it pops up.