KY - Breonna Taylor, 26, unarmed, fatally shot multiple times by police, Louisville, 13 Mar 2020

[tresir2012]

Nothing I said referenced a specific opinion about what the cops did in this case so I’m not sure why you felt the need to quote and respond to my post with this opinion.


And the first shot was fired after a no knock raid which has been demonstrated by other posters to be an incredibly stupid dangerous and deadly approach used by law enforcement.

Your post did not mention the fact that KW shot at the officers but just mentioned the right to bear arms. If police are fired upon they will return fire. I think that was why the OP replied to you.

 

[tresir2012]

"Three officers fired a total of 32 shots, Mr. Cameron said. Rounds fired by Sgt. Jonathan Mattingly and Detective Myles Cosgrove struck Ms. Taylor, he said, while Mr. Hankison fired 10 rounds, none of which struck Ms. Taylor." 2 Officers Shot in Louisville Protests Over Breonna Taylor Charging Decision

Was the fatal shot to Ms. Taylor in the first volley or after the reload? That question has yet to be answered as far as I can tell.

It is inconclusive that Hankinson's 10 shots hit Ms. Taylor but somehow it is identified that the bullets in the neighboring apartment were his. How can we be sure that Hankinson's bullets didn't enter her home? Are all ten of his bullets accounted for and determined to be his but they never entered her apartment? He was at her door firing into her apartment.

Cosgrove fired 16 shots (IIRC). Was his first shot the "kill" shot or the last after a reload? Mattingly was shot by Walker but shot further into the apartment. It would have been good to know these details.

For forensics people out there, why is it not possible to determine which bullet came from which gun? And, if that is the case, how do we know it is Cosgrove's bullet that was the shot that killed her but don't know the origin of any other bullet?

I am confused. I hope the report is released so we can read what was said and get answers to these questions.

IMO LE would be able to determine which bullets came from which gun. Because they have the guns and the witness testimonies, they can easily match this using forensics to determine that.

 

[Alderyn]

Your post did not mention the fact that KW shot at the officers but just mentioned the right to bear arms. If police are fired upon they will return fire. I think that was why the OP replied to you.

Exactly. My post was an response to the wider conversation that Kimmer touched on. The response that quoted it did not respond to what I said but what the poster assumed I was saying.

The police placed themselves in the position where someone thought they needed to defend their home. The defence of ones home and property are a stalwart and often asinine part of American culture and yet this concept is thrown away the minute a cop becomes involved. The cops wouldn’t have been shot at if they hadn’t acted negligently all through the chain of command.

all imo as per TOS

 

[kaen]

IMO LE would be able to determine which bullets came from which gun. Because they have the guns and the witness testimonies, they can easily match this using forensics to determine that.

Yet, they couldn't tell whether Hankinson's bullets entered into the Taylor apartment. But, they could tell that the shot that killed Ms. Taylor came from Cosgrove's gun. Definitive on some details, not definitive on others is a concern for sake of integrity.

 

[ilovewings]

So the results of Grand Juries are not going to be respected?

Whose gun actually killed Breonna or was it a ricochet? Or from several of the officers guns? How many shots did her boyfriend fire?

I haven't fully followed all the details.

One thing is for sure: the officer/officers fired blindly into the home: as far as I have read, this is against police policy. apparently they could not see into the home because there was some kind of window covering. This was a horrible ugly preventable death. The no knock warrant is a horrdendous thing: any of us in the United States could have our doors rammed through with police swarming our home because they mistakenly got a tip we had drugs-- People have died --- with this no knock policy- this policy should be eradicated throughout the nation.

 

[Deleted member 267032]

From the press conference, no shots from Hankison hit Breonna. She was hit by six shots. Only mention of the origin of the six shots was that Cosgrove shot was fatal. IIRC

 

[Deleted member 267032]

Yet, they couldn't tell whether Hankinson's bullets entered into the Taylor apartment. But, they could tell that the shot that killed Ms. Taylor came from Cosgrove's gun. Definitive on some details, not definitive on others is a concern for sake of integrity.

Not sure they said none of Hankison's shots entered the Taylor apt.

 

[Deleted member 267032]

One thing is for sure: the officer/officers fired blindly into the home: as far as I have read, this is against police policy. apparently they could not see into the home because there was some kind of window covering. This was a horrible ugly preventable death. The no knock warrant is a horrdendous thing: any of us in the United States could have our doors rammed through with police swarming our home because they mistakenly got a tip we had drugs-- People have died --- with this no knock policy- this policy should be eradicated throughout the nation.

I believe only Hankison fired through a window covering & he was charged.

 

[ilovewings]

I have to say that while i think the lack of accountability for this woman's death is horrible, i am concerned about the level of violence that is occurring in Louisville and other cities. We cannot have our police officers being shot at and injured and/or killed: that is anarchy. When anarchy occurs, it leads to authoritarian government.

 

[tresir2012]

Exactly. My post was an response to the wider conversation that Kimmer touched on. The response that quoted it did not respond to what I said but what the poster assumed I was saying.

The police placed themselves in the position where someone thought they needed to defend their home. The defence of ones home and property are a stalwart and often asinine part of American culture and yet this concept is thrown away the minute a cop becomes involved. The cops wouldn’t have been shot at if they hadn’t acted negligently all through the chain of command.

all imo as per TOS

Have you got a link for your last statement that LE acted negligently, because the GJ clearly state they were justified firing to defend themselves. This thread is not about the right to bear arms but about the death of Breonna who was shot when LE returned fire.

 

[JerseyGirl]

"If Brett Hankison's behavior was wanton endangerment to people in neighboring apartments, then it should have been wanton endangerment in Breonna Taylor's apartment too," family attorney Ben Crump wrote on Twitter.

"In fact, it should have been ruled wanton murder!"

Breonna Taylor announcement: Ex-police officer Brett Hankison charged

 

[kaen]

I have to say that while i think the lack of accountability for this woman's death is horrible, i am concerned about the level of violence that is occurring in Louisville and other cities. We cannot have our police officers being shot at and injured and/or killed: that is anarchy. When anarchy occurs, it leads to authoritarian government.

Very true. I would hope that government officials would have invited local leaders into a process of dialogue for change long before we got to this. However, it didn't happen as there seemed to be no urgency. Now it is urgent. I hope the police, local leaders, state leaders and public can come together to begin a dialogue for real, systematic change. Otherwise, I fear the bloodshed will continue. For example, the issues with NKW was long known. Example after example of public danger has been on the books. Some departments and local governments moved to make the NKW illegal or not part of policy. Many did not. At some point, leadership, including police unions, need to step up and instigate/create an atmosphere for change.

Innocent people shouldn't be at risk of dying in strategized police actions. Officers should not have their lives on the line carrying out their jobs. Leadership and community partnership is critical to stanching this wound. Until yesterday, with the AG's determination to convene a task force, there has been little or no talk in this community. Why? Politics be damned as people's lives are on the line---citizens and police.

 

[tresir2012]

"If Brett Hankison's behavior was wanton endangerment to people in neighboring apartments, then it should have been wanton endangerment in Breonna Taylor's apartment too," family attorney Ben Crump wrote on Twitter.

"In fact, it should have been ruled wanton murder!"

Breonna Taylor announcement: Ex-police officer Brett Hankison charged

The GJ clearly disagreed with this though. Presumably because the bullets did not end up in Breonna's apartment but in a neighbouring apartment/apartment wall.

 

[IceIce9]

Your post did not mention the fact that KW shot at the officers but just mentioned the right to bear arms. If police are fired upon they will return fire. I think that was why the OP replied to you.

Exactly. The post I quoted said

“police have unending leeway to shoot at the first suggestion, first mention or sight of a gun”

I wanted to point out it was more than just a suggestion, mention, or sight of a gun. The boyfriend actually fired at the officers, striking one of them.

 

[IceIce9]

I believe only Hankison fired through a window covering & he was charged.

Correct, Hankinson was not shooting at a target so he was charged. The other officers were firing at a target, a threat, who had fired upon them first. They were not negligent in their duty.

 

[JerseyGirl]

"A sham proceeding": Lawyer for Breonna Taylor's family blasts grand jury decision

The wanton endangerment charge “doesn’t make sense,” Crump said, adding that the indictment was in connection to bullets shot into a white neighbor’s apartment, “but not for the bullets going in Breonna Taylor's body.”

"Nothing seems to say Breonna mattered," Crump said of the decision announced Wednesday.

Crump said the anger expressed in the protests is shared by Taylor’s family. “They were outraged, they were insulted, and they were mostly offended. We’re trying to figure out what did the Kentucky Attorney General Daniel Cameron present to the grand jury."

Crump dismissed the notion that the officers were firing in self-defense when Taylor was killed. "The self-defense argument in Kentucky, as in many states across America, contemplates that you cannot use violence against a third-party innocent bystander like Breonna Taylor," he said.

The attorney added that Walker fired his gun because he "thought he was protecting his woman and his 'castle.'"

Juniyah Palmer, Taylor’s sister, reacted to the decision Wednesday on Instagram, writing, “Sister, I am so sorry. Sister, you was failed by a system you worked hard for. We was failed as a family."

 

[tresir2012]

Definition of a warning shot according to Wiki.

Warning shot - Wikipedia

 

[ilovewings]

The GJ clearly disagreed with this though. Presumably because the bullets did not end up in Breonna's apartment but in a neighbouring apartment/apartment wall.

Well 6 bullets ended up in Ms. Taylor' body: the fatal shot was determined to come from the gun of police officer Cosgrove---

 

[IceIce9]

Well 6 bullets ended up in Ms. Taylor' body: the fatal shot was determined to come from the gun of police officer Cosgrove---

Cosgrove was rightfully firing back at a target that had fired first. Sadly, Breonna was hit instead of her boyfriend who was firing at police. But that doesn’t mean Cosgrove’s actions were negligent.

 

[Alderyn]

Have you got a link for your last statement that LE acted negligently, because the GJ clearly state they were justified firing to defend themselves. This thread is not about the right to bear arms but about the death of Breonna who was shot when LE returned fire.

I very clearly put IMO on the post and as such I do not need to provide a link.

It is my honest opinion that the officers and officials involved on many levels were negligent in their responsibilities to informational accuracy, due diligence, professionalism, and integrity. The evidence is an innocent civilian being murdered by men paid with her own tax dollars.