GUILTY KY - Trey Zwicker, 14, beaten to death, Louisville, 11 May 2011 #2

[digitalwindows]

Isn't the judge suposed to ask the defendant.if he is choosing not to testify of his own free will ?

 

[minor4th]

Apparently Young is charged with murder and with complicity

 

[bettybaby00]

Apparently Young is charged with murder and with complicity

Wait, what???!!!

Is that new? How?

 

[Thundar]

Apparently Young is charged with murder and with complicity

If you care to believe the HLN timeline that I posted in page 5 or 6 it says:
August 15, 2012 -- The prosecutor dismisses murder and tampering charges against Joshua Young, but complicity to murder and complicity to tamper remain.

It seems from this timeline that the prosecutor dismissed the murder and tampering charges but the complicity to both remain........but I also wondered by the discussion that the lawyers were having about jury instructions it seemed like they were discussing murder charges....so I don't know for sure......do you?

 

[minor4th]

If you care to believe the HLN timeline that I posted in page 5 or 6 it says:
August 15, 2012 -- The prosecutor dismisses murder and tampering charges against Joshua Young, but complicity to murder and complicity to tamper remain.

It seems from this timeline that the prosecutor dismissed the murder and tampering charges but the complicity to both remain........but I also wondered by the discussion that the lawyers were having about jury instructions it seemed like they were discussing murder charges....so I don't know for sure......do you?

There's clearly going to be a murder jury instruction, so the state must have reinstated those charges as some point.

 

[bettybaby00]

There's clearly going to be a murder jury instruction, so the state must have reinstated those charges as some point.

We need our lawyers help!

Can that be done? Wouldn't have it been brought up during court proceedings in a formal way?

If true, I would think the defense would have put on more of a defense????

 

[HauntsForHope]

Review of charges and jury instructions begins at 38:46

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkQG_bKm1Nc

 

[HauntsForHope]

I'm surprised that the defense didn't present any defense. I still can't tell you where Young was after the cookout. But, I can tell you with certainty where Gouker was and when. I expected some story at least, especially in light of the conflicting stories he gave police.

 

[lonetraveler]

I watched the movie 'Slingblade' last night and thought that the monster in that movie was probably real close in character to JG. Unlike the movie where someone took care of the monster before he could ruin the boy I think JY is damaged and has made his choice on lifestyle and that is to emulate his hideous father.

And poor innocent Trey. Lost to us forever. So wrong.

I feel the same as you. If he goes free he will be a danger to those around him. :moo: He will be even angrier now that his father, who he idolizes, will be serving life in prison.

 

[lonetraveler]

Jason Riley ‏@jasonrileyCJ 38s

Defense attorney mentions man who helped Booth after he killed Lincoln, saying he wasn't complicit in the murder.

But, wasn't he hanged?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I agree that JY would be physically capable, but I thought it significant that the lawyer said he felt JG was guilty. I feel naive b/c would a defense lawyer say something if he didn't believe it? I could expect this type of answer if he had been more vague, or less definitive sounding????

Hence questioning my naivety :blushing:

He sure doesn't want to think a client of his that plead guilty is not guilty. JG went against what his lawyer advised when he made his plea.

And most attorneys never ask their client if they are guilty or not. They really don't want to know the answer.

imo

 

[lonetraveler]

That argument is wacked. Does everyone there know all the details surrounding the man and why the system at the time did not pursue him?

Does the defense think the court will force jurors to write down the evidence that led them to their decision? I don't think that will fly. But it does tell me the defense is not confidant of how this will end and that encourages me that justice will happen for Trey Zwicker.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Abraham_Lincoln#Conspirators.27_trial

The trial lasted for about seven weeks, with 366 witnesses testifying. Louis Weichmann, released from custody, was a key witness. All of the defendants were found guilty on June 30. Mary Surratt, Lewis Powell, David Herold, and George Atzerodt were sentenced to death by hanging; Samuel Mudd, Samuel Arnold, and Michael O'Laughlen were sentenced to life in prison. Mudd escaped execution by a single vote, the tribunal having voted 5–4 against hanging him.[citation needed] Edmund Spangler was sentenced to imprisonment for six years. Oddly, after sentencing Mary Surratt to hang, five of the jurors signed a letter recommending clemency, but Johnson refused to stop the execution. (Johnson later claimed he never saw the letter.[84])

 

[oceanblueeyes]

There's clearly going to be a murder jury instruction, so the state must have reinstated those charges as some point.

I missed the jury instructions this afternoon but I heard HLN THs talking about it being in the jury instructions.

Have you ever heard of that happening before Minor?

Could it be a part of the instructions stating he is still involved in the complicity to commit murder even if he did the actual murder himself? Could this be because they had testimony that JG also came to Cassie's and got her up telling her to get rid of the evidence?

thanks

 

[lonetraveler]

That argument is wacked. Does everyone there know all the details surrounding the man and why the system at the time did not pursue him?

Does the defense think the court will force jurors to write down the evidence that led them to their decision? I don't think that will fly. But it does tell me the defense is not confidant of how this will end and that encourages me that justice will happen for Trey Zwicker.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Abraham_Lincoln#Conspirators.27_trial

The trial lasted for about seven weeks, with 366 witnesses testifying. Louis Weichmann, released from custody, was a key witness. All of the defendants were found guilty on June 30. Mary Surratt, Lewis Powell, David Herold, and George Atzerodt were sentenced to death by hanging; Samuel Mudd, Samuel Arnold, and Michael O'Laughlen were sentenced to life in prison. Mudd escaped execution by a single vote, the tribunal having voted 5–4 against hanging him.[citation needed] Edmund Spangler was sentenced to imprisonment for six years. Oddly, after sentencing Mary Surratt to hang, five of the jurors signed a letter recommending clemency, but Johnson refused to stop the execution. (Johnson later claimed he never saw the letter.[84])

 

[HauntsForHope]

Ok, all the evidence is in. All the witnesses have spoken. We're almost ready to deliberate.
Where does everyone stand?

1. Complicity to Murder. Guilty or Not Guilty?
2. Complicity to tamper with physical evidence. Guilty or Not Guilty?

What does Complicity mean?

Com·plic·i·ty [kuhm-plis-i-tee] noun, plural com·plic·i·ties.
the state of being an accomplice; partnership or involvement in wrongdoing: complicity in a crime.

What does Murder mean?

Mur·der [mur-der] noun
1.Law. the killing of another human being under conditions specifically covered in law. In the U.S., special statutory definitions include murder committed with malice aforethought, characterized by deliberation or premeditation or occurring during the commission of another serious crime, as robbery or arson (first-degree murder) and murder by intent but without deliberation or premeditation (second-degree murder).

 

[minor4th]

We need our lawyers help!

Can that be done? Wouldn't have it been brought up during court proceedings in a formal way?

If true, I would think the defense would have put on more of a defense????

This did not come as a surprise to the defense, so I'm sure it was done formally and appropriately at some point -- it just wasn't picked up by the media.

 

[bettybaby00]

This did not come as a surprise to the defense, so I'm sure it was done formally and appropriately at some point -- it just wasn't picked up by the media.

Thank you!!!

And *smacks head*

I'm just noticing your verified status!!!! :blushing:

I wouldn't have made a shout out to "lawyers" otherwise!

Sorry, didn't mean to appear as if I was questioning your expertise eace:

 

[HauntsForHope]

"It took less than an hour for Joshua Young's defense team to call four additional witnesses, including his aunt and social worker, before resting its case Thursday.
Young, who did not testify in his own defense, is charged with complicity to murder for his alleged role in the slaying of his stepbrother, Trey Zwicker, in May 2011." The judge told jurors he expected them to get the case around lunchtime Friday, after attorneys present their closing arguments. The judge also told jurors to pack an overnight bag in case they don't reach a verdict Friday night, in which case they would be sequestered and continue to deliberate on Saturday."

http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/08/justice/kentucky-josh-young-trial/index.html?iref=allsearch

 

[sweets]

I'm not sure what this logic is? Jodi arias was not a killer until she was. Brett SeaCat was not a killer until he was.

Not doing it before does not make it less likely lthat he did it now. There is no way from what I see that jy did this on his own. I dont believe he did it at all. I believe that gouker did it. He is an evil sob that cares not for anyone. It'll anything I believe he might have made jy watch. But I don't think jy did it. I honestly can not believe with the testimony of how evil mean and violent gouker is that they would charge jy with anything.

BBM..I fully agree with you. I can not fathom (sp) how anyone believes anything JG has said or any of the others that DA brought up.. They have all swore to JG they would do and say whatever he wanted just like they have always done.. Cassie was so medicated plus drinking and drugging she would not remember anything that happened. Amanda is so cold and off that it would not suprise me that she had something or knew something about TZ's death and this is her way of saying "an eye for an eye" right back at JG. She is going to make sure now that JG's son has no life now. Her own mother has been on HLN saying that Amanda has always been selfish and only cared for herself since she was little. No emotion or care for anyone but herself...We now know that she lied about TZ being afraid of the dark as his father Terry Z. said on the stand today. Of course I think she has lies about everything just like all the rest.

Anyway, this is all JMO but I see JY as being scared to death of his dad and if he is acting odd to anyone now IMO it is because he has no hope. He has always been a throw away kid with nobody to take up for him or really show him what love is besides the last foster parents and IMO he has just accepted the fact that he has no one now. How would any other 15 yo act when being questioning by police with no one to advise him. He did not know he could ask for a lawyer when ? by PD and sure had no adult he could call on to be there for him. And then to top it all off the words he spoke to Det. Russ are being misconstrued. When he was asked if all this mess was better being with his dad JY said "I didn't say that...I just said I would rather be with my dad than anywhere else. He did not say say that all this trouble was better than anything else.... This kid has just been dealt a "s...t hand at life and just wanted to be loved by the one person he thought he had left in his family..his SOB dad.

This is all JMO and I know you all disagree but I just needed to vent and get it out there....MHO...sweets

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Ok, all the evidence is in. All the witnesses have spoken. We're almost ready to deliberate.
Where does everyone stand?

1. Complicity to Murder. Guilty or Not Guilty?
2. Complicity to tamper with physical evidence. Guilty or Not Guilty?

What does Complicity mean?

Com·plic·i·ty [kuhm-plis-i-tee] noun, plural com·plic·i·ties.
the state of being an accomplice; partnership or involvement in wrongdoing: complicity in a crime.

What does Murder mean?

Mur·der [mur-der] noun
1.Law. the killing of another human being under conditions specifically covered in law. In the U.S., special statutory definitions include murder committed with malice aforethought, characterized by deliberation or premeditation or occurring during the commission of another serious crime, as robbery or arson (first-degree murder) and murder by intent but without deliberation or premeditation (second-degree murder).

I believe he really should be charged and found guilty of murder one but because JG threw a wrench in that by pleading before JY went to trial.... the state had to go with complicity to commit murder. He still could be the principal and his father could have covered it up for him and that is why JG finally came to Cassie's house to get her up. That would still make him guilty in the complicity to commit murder.

I do not in any way see a boy that was afraid of his father. I have seen no reason why he should be. It seems he let JY get away with anything and everything he wanted to do while he had him in his custody. His father wasn't even around when he raved about his dad and how he was at his happiest when he was with him.

I do not believe the evidence submitted even shows that JG was ever at the scene that night. In fact the evidence entered points away from him being there at all. JY cannot account for his whereabouts for any of that night after Trey left his home at 10:30pm

I think JG performance on the stand was just that.........a performance... hoping the jury would buy what he is selling and they just might. If that happens then JY will get away with murder and become just as emboldened as the father he wants to be just like.

There are way too many witnesses for them all to be lying. They are consistent and some did not even know each other.

The only one I truly care about in this case is Trey Zwicker. Will justice be denied for Trey? Possibly, and sadly it wont be the last time it happens to a victim either.

Imo, if he walks his father will appeal his own case saying the Judge erred by excepting his plea because there was no evidence whatsoever tying him to the murder....all they had was his word. The words of a known and prolific liar that boasts how he can control others and manipulate them. I do believe he is good at doing this and his concocted story may just be bought by this jury too. He sure tried to come across as a bad gangsta in order to shock their senses.

God bless you Trey........may you rest in peace. Your father will never let you be forgotten.

IMO