Kyron's doctors appointment

[Calliope]

I agree. So far, there have been no arrests, no charges, no named suspects, no Kyron, very little coming from LE regarding progress in the case or lack thereof. School starts in 5-6 weeks, give or take. While I'm sure that many new safety precautions will be in place at Skyline, I would still worry about the safety of my child/children if they went to the school. jmo

Skyline Elementary is probably the safest school in the country =\

 

[Calliope]

The aerial view of the school tells me differently. It's isolated, there's only one way directly into the school parking lot and courtyard area, and a predator would stick out like a sore thumb there. There's also a backroad, but if the predator saw the sign out front, they wouldn't necessarily know there was a back road. If I was a predator, that is not a place I would try and snatch a kid. No way. There's too much risk at a school anyway, but far too much risk at that particular school. And if I was a predator related to a kid at the school, that would up the risk even more of kids seeing me and knowing who I am. No, I don't think this could have been a pedophile child abduction, and I will be shocked if I am wrong.

There isn't only one way into the school, however. And who says a predator has to be a complete stranger unfamiliar with the school, its physical layout and absentee policies?

 

[just]

Thanks for the comments and contributions everyone.

The thing is, it's a science fair. A predator might have tried to go that day on the off chance some kid was dropped off thinking he could schmooze the kid. And then Kyron came out.

Keep in mind that predators might be used to "attempts to abduct" are not working. I'm sure that pedophiles hang around waiting for opportunity. They just don't always succeed in finding one.

I think this would be plausible, very unlikely but plausible, if TH had helped look for KH, had said just once to anyone - even through a friend - she loves him and misses him - and then add to that the plot to kill KH, failed polygraphs, pings on SI when she said she was far over near Hillsboro (I live here and they are not near each other), the friend (Finster?) defending TH about the doctor's appt saying the teacher was in her first year, hard of hearing, etc - meaning TH was already trying to cover, DY and KH's statements, etc etc. It's just too overwhelming. This isn't just an instance of she was there, he went missing, she's blamed but there isn't other convincing circumstantial -- there is powerful circumstantial evidence.

If you knew the area, the school, it really would be a mind-bender for anyone to wait around and snatch him, not saying it couldn't happen - look at Polly Klaas and ES for examples, but sometimes the truth is obvious even if a certain someone tries to make a big drama out of it (i.e., TH)

 

[bessie]

Except it didn't spark a fast response.

But the perp wouldn't know that. He or she would have to assume that the child would be missed. Unless, the perp knew the teacher thought he had left for a doctor's appointment. For instance...just speculating...Kyron was wandering in the parking lot looking for Terri. The perp sees him and asks what he's doing there. He says that he's looking for his mom because she's taking him to the doctor. At this point, the perp could assume that the teacher was under the impression he'd left for the appointment, so no alarms from her. But the theory falls apart here because the perp would have to consider that the mom might show up, and his disappearance would soon become apparent, sending up the flares. Even a random stranger would be taking a big risk because the mom could drive up at any moment and spot him. Then again, a random stranger might've snatched him without asking questions.

 

[Deleted member 718]

There isn't only one way into the school, however. And who says a predator has to be a complete stranger unfamiliar with the school, its physical layout and absentee policies?

I live in a farming area with several elementary schools spread throughout the county, most in very small towns Last spring there was in incident when the sheriff’s office began receiving calls from concerned residents who reported seeing a man in a silver Dodge mini van who was allegedly following and photographing children in the area of the elementary schools.

The man in question is described as a white male in his mid-50s with “salt and pepper” hair, beard and mustache. The vehicle is described as an early 1990s model Dodge Caravan with California tags, a luggage rack on top with no hub caps.

The sheriff reported that the subject has likely been active in neighboring communities, as well.


I'm trying to maintain that creepy people do seek out our children at their schools. I can't help but wonder if one these schools had a sign out front inviting the public to a fair, that this man may have entered the school. I live a long way from California. What what he doing here?

 

[Calliope]

I live in a farming area with several elementary schools spread throughout the county, most in very small towns Last spring there was in incident when the sheriff’s office began receiving calls from concerned residents who reported seeing a man in a silver Dodge mini van who was allegedly following and photographing children in the area of the elementary schools.

The man in question is described as a white male in his mid-50s with “salt and pepper” hair, beard and mustache. The vehicle is described as an early 1990s model Dodge Caravan with California tags, a luggage rack on top with no hub caps.

The sheriff reported that the subject has likely been active in neighboring communities, as well.


I'm trying to maintain that creepy people do seek out our children at their schools. I can't help but wonder if one these schools had a sign out front inviting the public to a fair, that this man may have entered the school. I live a long way from California. What what he doing here?

Oh God. Stuff like this makes me want to lock my grandson away until he's 30.

I don't buy into the theory that there's this magic protective force field around the perimeter of a school and that once inside, children are *safe*.

However, this pervasive attitude (that schools are inherently safe) fits with an earlier theory I posted (and am still too lazy to re-type):


I think Kyron's level of trust would have been high in anyone he met in the school environment. (copying this over from the old general threads made before the current forum, because I'm too lazy to re-type it)



IMO, a kid in school is going to feel safe (as well they should!).

So here we have a situation where there are many kids, parents, volunteers and staff milling about. Kyron sees these "strangers" and even though he doesn't necessarily know them, logic would tell him that these people are "ok". After all, the school itself is allowing them to be around and interact with all the kids. A perfectly reasonable assumption on his part.

Knowing he's inside a safe place, surrounded by people he knows are there to watch out for him, his guard is going to be way down. In an environment like this, I have no doubt most adults wouldn't consider the 'stranger danger' element as they would elsewhere (which btw could explain why it seems no one noticed anything unusual). So why should we expect a 7 year old child to be any more vigilant??

Given these circumstances, someone with intentions on taking a child would already have a huge advantage, for not only the kids but adults as well would never in a million years expect that something like this could happen.

Now all that is left is for that predator to find a vulnerable child, one who is separated from the group, away from an adult, close to an exit.


I believe it's not out of the realm of possibility that this was a child predator, someone who is NOT an RSO (i.e. has never been caught). Someone who is either connected to the school (however peripherally that may be) and/or the neighborhood. Possibly even had children or siblings who attended the school, maybe even a former student. Whoever this person is, I think he caught kyron separated from others and close enough to an exit that he was able to lead him out of the school without being noticed (obviously).

Because of what I wrote above (that Kyron would have felt secure in this environment), I don't think he would have fought off this person until it was far too late. I also don't believe he would have necessarily had to recognize this person in order to be lured away.

*knocking on door just down from Kyron's class*

Hey, can you help me please? I'm late and I don't want my little boy to get in trouble because I forgot to bring his exhibit in. I have it over here in the car, it won't take but a minute if you don't mind holding the door open for me. Did you do an project too? What did you do it on? Frogs! How cool! Could you get the box out of the back seat? Yeah, that one on the floor there! Thanks!

*slam*

Now this assumes that Kyron wasn't the target, meaning someone didn't go there specifically to take him, just a vulnerable child. IF he was targeted by someone who knew him and was going after him, my thoughts are that it's someone connected to his hobbies, activities, clubs, etc., OR that of his parents or brother.

 

[SmoothOperator]

BeanE posted: "But he says the need for the public to be alarmed is very low."

In another statement from LE, there is a reference to this being "an isolated case". I took this to mean that LE believes that it is a family situation that suggests a very limited possibility that a predator is on the loose in the community. jmo

Yes, BDE, you are correct its been referenced several times as an "isolated case" but what is THE MOST TELLING (IMO) is that if you go to the locals thread its asked time and time again about what the locals thoughts of feeling they should be "alarmed" or MORE protective than usual(thats saying to me that he wants ppl to know that they should alwyas be diligent in watching over their children, not because of kyron justas in always)... But the locals and they say all the ppl they know in the area and/or have spoken with that NONE feel as tho a need to be alarmed and no EXTRA precautions being taken...
IMO that says alot.

 

[Calliope]

I also have to consider this:

http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local-beat/Exposing-the-Pedophile-Playbook-94891204.html

The online pedophile playbook. I don't have the nerve to go looking at it for myself ('really officer, I was just using it to debate a point on WebSleuths!'), but it's apparent from the report that pedophiles don't care about *high-risk* situations, there is a network of sorts, and that they have many ways of getting close to children and achieving their goals. Just because WE would think it's too risky and would never attempt such a bold move doesn't mean there aren't people out there who would. I'd even go as far as to suggest that the danger involved is a desired (and possibly even arousing) element for some.

Watch the video; it's more than disturbing

 

[bessie]

Thanks for the comments and contributions everyone.

The thing is, it's a science fair. A predator might have tried to go that day on the off chance some kid was dropped off thinking he could schmooze the kid. And then Kyron came out.

Keep in mind that predators might be used to "attempts to abduct" are not working. I'm sure that pedophiles hang around waiting for opportunity. They just don't always succeed in finding one.

Thank you, Chewy, for this thread and the other one you started last weekend. Admittedly, I've become so focused on TH lately that I've lost sight of other possibilities even though I know they exist. I wouldn't want LE to operate that way, and if my interest in this case is to learn the truth about Kyron, then neither should I.

 

[LandAuxvasse]

I started a thread, using the article you are referring to. That thread is now gone, but I will find and link to the article right now...just need a couple of minutes.


Here is the link to the article on KATU, listing the names and much more:

http://www.katu.com/news/local/98981009.html

Yes, I read this, but the only quotes in the article are the school official which said nothing about a dr.'s appt, and the quote from the mom that was repeating what her son said the teacher said... that leaves me on the fence. They had the school source right there but did not quote anything about an appointment??

 

[BeanE]

This information, if true, would knock me off the fence!!! The ABC reporter says that their affiliate, KATU, learned of the multiple teachers and students (paraphrasing) telling LE that TH said Kyron had a Dr.'s appt THAT day... however, I am not finding that information in any of the KATU articles... guess I'm still on the fence! :waitasec:

Yes, I read this, but the only quotes in the article are the school official which said nothing about a dr.'s appt, and the quote from the mom that was repeating what her son said the teacher said... that leaves me on the fence. They had the school source right there but did not quote anything about an appointment??

Yep, if that was true, I'd leap right off the fence too. I can't give it credence though because it's an ABC reporter saying that a Katu reporter said that unnamed teachers and students said that LE said that Terri said... oh heck I can't even remember. And then you go to the Katu article to try to begin tracking it down, and it's not even there!

The Whisper-Down-The-Lane and flat out misleading reporting has gotten beyond ridiculous. It's a disservice to Kyron. Give us some real journalism and real information!!!

 

[Adalena935]

Yes, I read this, but the only quotes in the article are the school official which said nothing about a dr.'s appt, and the quote from the mom that was repeating what her son said the teacher said... that leaves me on the fence. They had the school source right there but did not quote anything about an appointment??

The conclusions of trials have left me feeling the same. There's often no Perry Mason moment. It's understandable while a case is newly developing as this one.

The issue of the doctor appointment is among several questions KATU News has submitted to Multnomah County Sheriff Dan Staton. He is expected to answer those questions, in writing, sometime in the next couple of days.

From the above poster's link. Who knows we all may get an answer on it if and when there's a trial.

 

[Adalena935]

I think it will be very awkward, to say the least, if LE in this case ever has to admit that the community should in fact be vigilant as an unknown predator may have taken Kyron.

FBI automatically involved immediately on missing children's cases; that info is on their web site. I've seen FBI give the public wrong information inadvertently on bigger publicized cases than this one and they had no problem whatsoever admitting their mistake so they could put out the correct info to the public in lieu of the wrong info they had initially given the public.

Based on FBI's past conduct they always put the missing child first.

 

[Adalena935]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20007450-504083.html
Kyron Horman Missing: No Evidence of Abduction, Say Police

http://www.ncvc.org/ncvc/main.aspx?dbName=DocumentViewer&DocumentID=38709

Some startling statistics on child abuse. Cases reported to LE, Mothers 39% are the abusers, Fathers 17% of the time.

FBI has other shocking statistics of child abuse by parent(s)/caregiver(s)

Much higher ratio than stranger abduction.

So those things plus all the info in the news IF IF IF there's any truth to it I tend to not believe this was stranger abduction. Why kidnap a child that old from a crowded area when all the stranger has to do is watch kids leave school then catch them alone with no witnesses?

I think it's much more likely somebody's not being honest and that maybe a friend might be covering for them. After all especially if somebody tried to hire hit man & they never came forward earlier until Kyron went missing, maybe also a partner in crime if you will is harboring somebody now just as news is eluding to.

The list is longer even why I think it's less likely this is stranger abduction.

 

[BeanE]

Upon thinking about Kyrons friend K, and why it "could" be that he actually did know Kyron had an appt that day....not heard from another source such as the teacher, but knew first hand......

TH took his picture, in front of his project that AM, as well as Kyrons picture. IMO...MOO....I am willing to believe that he learned about the appointment during this photo opp, be it from TH or Kyron.

To me, this "possible" explanation makes a lot of sense....TH could have mentioned it thinking it would reinforce the belief that Kyron was supposed to be gone from school that day. That is why friend K says to his mom "I knew he was gone all day already"

My theory at any rate....

Based on the info in the article, it looks to me as if K knew about the appointment from the teacher.

 

[Emeralgem]

I don't know why the school just didn't call the doctor's office to verify the appt. Maybe that wasn't necessary. When my boys were in school many many yrs ago verification from the doctor's office/appt was required. IF that's what the parent/guardian claimed the reason for absence was.
I'm sure law enforcement checked. To try to answer your question hypothetically, it sounds like it could be a cover story setup because she wanted him not to be missed all day long. Maybe that's an obvious hypothesis but it's the only one I can come up with.

If it's true about her trying to hire a hit man to murder her husband, no telling what she may have plotted against this poor little child. Those are no small allegations against this woman. I can't imagine the media, school, teachers, classmates, gym manager, neighbors, landlords of friends, parents, FBI, sheriff, police all getting up one day and deciding to plot against the stepmom.

Yes, but verification of the appointment is usually presented when the child returns from the appointment.. I don't recall any school my children ever attended calling the dr. or orthodontist to verify an appointment IF I called or sent a note stating my child had an appointment and would be arriving late or if I requested they be dismissed early from school for an appointment..JMO

 

[Peliman]

Toward the end of seeking truth's link, it says Terri asked to use the truck that day for the purpose of bringing Kyron's science project home. Yet, she emailed the teacher later in the day asking her when she could pick it up. Kyron's Father (Kaine) commented on the anomoly. They call that a "witness". True enough Terri's stories just don't seem to add up.

If what's in news is true I believe they could convict her without finding Kyron physically. What did she do with him?

Curious enough they both went to the bus stop to pick up Kyron too? I'm not real close to this case but I thought I'd heard this reported.

 

[Cher352]

I post this same thought over on the Bus/Dr Appt thread too but thought I would post it here too as these statements by TP have bothered me from the very beginning.

According to TP after returning to the classroom from touring the SF the helper said "Oh no, where is Kyron, there is only 5 " leads me to believe that Kyron must have been present and put into her group of 6 for the tour or why else would she think Kyron was part of her group. I wouldn't think the groups would have formed until after the bell rang just prior to the tour beginning.

Also the teachers reply that Kyron must have went to the bathroom or to get of drink of water also seems strange IF in fact the teacher was of the belief that he had left with TH to go to the doctors.

This video was taken in the very beginning and statement are by the witness himself so it is not left up to the interpretation of the reporter. IDK but I tend to believe it is more credible than other statements not made until weeks after the fact.

http://video.aol.ca/video-detail/int...id=VIDURVNWS08

 

[Adalena935]

With all the people there that morning, and all the cars, a predator would have been assumed to be just another relative of a kid. Or since persons working at the school didn't have to wear ID badges, he/she could have been thought to be just another school employee or contractor.

I think LE are savvy enough to ask Kyron's Father if he'd likely go with a stranger abductor quietly amidst a crowd of people. Kyron didn't live in a vacuum. He was 7; old enough to yell for himself and perhaps run away if given an opportunity if he was in jeopardy being abducted by a stranger.

 

[Adalena935]

Curious enough they both went to the bus stop to pick up Kyron too? I'm not real close to this case but I thought I'd heard this reported.

I've read other people's posts saying this but I don't find it curious if it's true. I haven't read it in news myself. I think families just get their routines so what may seem odd to one isn't to another and so forth.